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Rothhammer1
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Reged: 06/01/17
Posts: 1804
Loc: The Redwoods of California
MS Mystery for the Experts
      #340584 - 30/04/20 08:23 PM

Okay, Guys... who wants to take a poke at solving a couple of mysteries?

A Swedish gentleman posted some images of a newly acquired and somewhat enigmatic Mannlicher Schoenauer to another 'site. The M1910 Takedown Model had been converted, rather expertly it seems, to 6.5X55 Swedish by means of a rebarrel and apparent change of magazine rotor to one modified from a 1903.

None of that is the mystery.

The first hint of something peculiar came with views of the receiver and barrel proof marks:




On the receiver are typical Austrian proof marks as one would expect on a pre WW2 MS. Visible from top to bottom are the Steyr serial number of 7706, 1365.24 indicating the 1,365 th arm to be Nitro proofed at Vienna in 1924, NPv for Nitro Proof Vienna, and rear of the lug we see (inverted) a -15 depth mark used to match chambered barrel to receiver.


On underside of the barrel we see C6'7, the German designation for a 6.5 (grooves, not lands), to the lower right of which is stamped 36. as would indicate 1936 on a German proof. There is the script EV of the Vienna proof house with a number below it that seems to be 236.5, but could be 23605 with a small zero. Conspicuously absent are a serial number to match the receiver and a +15 to offset the -15 depth. The barrel is clearly a replacement, of course, as would be necessary to change a 9.5 bore to 6.5 Swede.


Here's the kicker. On the barrel's left side, below the Austrian NPv, appears a double headed eagle that was used exclusively during the first three years of Anschluss - 1938 through 1940. I have no idea what the K and 6 indicate.


Close up of Anschluss only eagle.


The British proofs are pretty straightforward and seem to date between 1954 and 1989 as it was during this period that pressure capacity was rated in tons. On the receiver we see the crown over CP of a London 'view' while the barrel bears the broadsword over NP of a London Nitro proof followed by the 6.5 bore size. I've no idea what the 2.11 indicates but it is followed by 17.5 TONS.

The Birmingham proofs on my M1910, proofed before 1932, detail the size of bore, weight of projectile, and maximum powder (Cordite) load. The 2.11 here does not seem relevant to any of these.

So what is a proof mark used only during Anschluss doing on a 1936 dated barrel when the Nazification of Austria did not occur until March of 1938? A tidy explanation would be if the 6 of '36.' were actually an inverted '9' of a stamping intended to be '39.'but the 36. looks more like a single stamp than it does 3, 6, and . stamped separately.




Now the other mystery.

Has anyone ever seen a Mannlicher Schoenauer with this 'Made in Austria' stamp on the barrel?

The Made in Austria 'top rocker' on the receiver, consistent with 1924 Austrian proof date, was used on all commercial MS from sometime in 1924 until the 1938 Anschluss and again afterward. This stamp on the barrel is, however, something I'm nearly certain I've never seen before.

It is somewhat reminiscent of the 'Sequoia' marking on the true M1924 that were made for export to the U.S. which makes me wonder if Steyr possibly marked replacement barrels in such fashion sometime between 1924 - 38?


'Made in Austria' on an Anschluss stamped barrel dated 1936?





Opinions, gentlemen?

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Citizen of the Cherokee Nation


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Igorrock
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Reged: 01/03/07
Posts: 1635
Loc: Finland
Re: MS Mystery for the Experts [Re: Rothhammer1]
      #340588 - 01/05/20 01:19 AM

Quote:

I've no idea what the 2.11 indicates but it is followed by 17.5 TONS.



IMO 2,11" could be case lenght i.e. aprc. 55 mm.

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26414
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: MS Mystery for the Experts [Re: Igorrock]
      #340589 - 01/05/20 03:20 AM

That's the only thing it could mean, however, that is a bit short of the 2.165" I see as nominal in my books.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Rothhammer1
.400 member


Reged: 06/01/17
Posts: 1804
Loc: The Redwoods of California
Re: MS Mystery for the Experts [Re: Igorrock]
      #340608 - 01/05/20 06:15 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I've no idea what the 2.11 indicates but it is followed by 17.5 TONS.



IMO 2,11" could be case lenght i.e. aprc. 55 mm.




It seems that you're right, and if so it was proofed for 6.5X54 rather than 6.5X55.

Being unfamiliar with the 1954 - 1989 British proof system, I had to compare images of other firearms Brit proofed during that period.

My M1910 bears British proofs from the 1920s along with "9.5 M/M EX" and "Cordite 43 - 270 MAX ", which defines the 9.5mm projectile, a maximum load of 43 grains Cordite, and a 270 grain projectile - all quite useful information. I have seen many images of others marked in the same fashion.

Apparently from 1954 through 1989 case length and 'long tons' per square inch of pressure as determined by a lead crush method was more important to British proof houses than bullet weight and powder charge.

Actually 54mm = 2.12598 inch, but take note of the 2.110" case length of 6.5X54 MS on the (quite British) Eley drawing below.



--------------------
Citizen of the Cherokee Nation


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