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TH44
.375 member


Reged: 21/02/09
Posts: 734
Loc: West UK
Charles Lancaster oval bore DR
      #340071 - 14/04/20 07:33 AM

Hi Guys
I have always liked the early doubles, this oval bore with the slide and tilt mechanism was one I always wanted

I have watched it for several years and with the boredom of isolation and the hope that a realistic reduction in price might be forthcoming gave it a punt

Anyway.........................................

Made in 1873 and sold to a Walter Bowden

It is in .450 3 1/4" foil cartridge (drawn brass cases do not fully chamber, neither do any of the .450/400s [based on
3 1/4" case] so its not length but tight halfway down the chamber





Non rebounding locks and stalking safeties in front of hammers



Nice scroll engraving



Bores are like new but could not get a good pic



Lancaster's slide and tilt action is completely different to the Jones underlever



Nice Damascus barrels, only single leaf sight???





Wood is good, sorry about the poor pics

Barrels 28" Weight 9 lbs 3 oz

For your pleasure and comments

TH44

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Huvius
.416 member


Reged: 04/11/07
Posts: 3556
Loc: Colorado
Re: Charles Lancaster oval bore DR [Re: TH44]
      #340074 - 14/04/20 08:21 AM

Superb double!
The crack above the right lock needs some attention though.

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.

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3DogMike
.400 member


Reged: 29/01/15
Posts: 1464
Loc: Western Slope, Colorado USA
Re: Charles Lancaster oval bore DR [Re: Huvius]
      #340076 - 14/04/20 08:54 AM

Really nice!
Interestingly my 1877 vintage Alexander Henry .450 Express double has only a single standing leaf rear sight as well. That single leaf rear sight is noted in the factory ledger, so it is original.
- Mike

--------------------
"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
- Anon

“Always carry a flask of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore always carry a small snake."
-- W. C. Fields

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tinker
.416 member


Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: Charles Lancaster oval bore DR [Re: 3DogMike]
      #340081 - 14/04/20 07:19 PM

Great looking rifle!

There's at least one good thread here on loading for the oval bore 450

On that rear sight, my 500-450 Magnum 3-1/2" Tolley also has a single standing rear sight.

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26994
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Charles Lancaster oval bore DR [Re: tinker]
      #340097 - 15/04/20 06:58 AM

Beautiful rifle indeed.
Could the chambers to re-cut to allow modern brass, or perhaps a sizing die made to reduce the modern 3 1/4" case so they fit?

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Huvius
.416 member


Reged: 04/11/07
Posts: 3556
Loc: Colorado
Re: Charles Lancaster oval bore DR [Re: DarylS]
      #340099 - 15/04/20 09:15 AM

Quote:

Beautiful rifle indeed.
Could the chambers to re-cut to allow modern brass, or perhaps a sizing die made to reduce the modern 3 1/4" case so they fit?


I'd try a tighter die for the lower half of the case and then trim the base back in a lathe if you must. I think modern nitro brass is pretty thick down there so there is some room for thinning the base a bit.

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.

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3DogMike
.400 member


Reged: 29/01/15
Posts: 1464
Loc: Western Slope, Colorado USA
Re: Charles Lancaster oval bore DR [Re: Huvius]
      #340106 - 15/04/20 01:26 PM

I suppose all the talk of odd chambers and reloading for this rifle might be a moot point. There was no mention of whether there is an intent to actually get it shooting.
We here in the ‘States need to remember that the UK has some rather (to our notions) draconian and convoluted firearms law.
As I recall, one can posess a specified (by section) antique off certificate “if” one does not have any ammo or components to make ammo for that firearm.
If said antique cartridge arm were intended to be paired with ammunition, then it has to be added to ones “firearms certificate” as approved by the Police Constabulary and who knows who else?

Maybe this one is just going to be a nice collector piece without the hassle of Police/Government intervention?

TH44....comment?

- Mike

--------------------
"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
- Anon

“Always carry a flask of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore always carry a small snake."
-- W. C. Fields

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93x64mm
.416 member


Reged: 07/12/11
Posts: 4199
Loc: Nth QLD Australia
Re: Charles Lancaster oval bore DR [Re: Huvius]
      #340121 - 15/04/20 11:13 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Beautiful rifle indeed.
Could the chambers to re-cut to allow modern brass, or perhaps a sizing die made to reduce the modern 3 1/4" case so they fit?


I'd try a tighter die for the lower half of the case and then trim the base back in a lathe if you must. I think modern nitro brass is pretty thick down there so there is some room for thinning the base a bit.



It would be a terrible shame to not see this old lady warble at least a few notes before going into retirement!
Mind you TH44, this is only your choice & yours alone, she certainly is a beauty even at her age that is for sure.
Frankly.......we're all jealous!

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TH44
.375 member


Reged: 21/02/09
Posts: 734
Loc: West UK
Re: Charles Lancaster oval bore DR [Re: 93x64mm]
      #340139 - 16/04/20 09:35 AM

Many thanks for your positive comments and advice

Huvius - I was so excited about unwrapping it that I missed the crack completely (brain failure due to age!)

The good news is that it did not penetrate far or into the lock mortise
I got some epoxy very hot and injected it into the crack with a hypodermic syringe which seems to have worked

My intention was always to shoot my rifles if possible, but you are correct about the difficulties in the UK
I have a .577 and a .450 on certificate and can put others temporarily on a dealer's certificate for 'testing'

I also have a .450 x 3 1/4" Alexander Henry single shot with cases and dies which has been shot
(posted here somewhere)

I never gave it a thought that standard cases would not fit, not having handled it previously

I have tried a .450/400 x 2 3/8" (same parent case) which will chamber but not let the action close Note the recesses in the breech faces (see pic 5) this may be a factor [I have not seen this before on a DR - comments?)

The ideal solution would be to recut the chambers but I do not know anyone in the UK who could do this (at a reasonable cost) and whether it would have to be reproofed which could take it out of the "antique" list

Without the ability to get custom dies unfortunately it look like a collection piece only although I would love to see her have a couple of last "warbles" [lovely word 9.3]

Tony

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Marrakai
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3591
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: Charles Lancaster oval bore DR [Re: TH44]
      #340145 - 16/04/20 11:41 AM

TH44:
First let me endorse all comments already posted here: what a marvellous thing! You must be very pleased to be looking after it for the time being.

That said, I would be loath to modify the chambers when all that is needed is a form die to be used only once per case. After initial forming the standard sizing die would neck-size for the life of the case, given the relatively low pressure involved.

A competent machinist should be able to make a form die using a boring bar or by making a D-bit, given that overdoing it slightly won't matter because the case will fire-form on first firing and can be neck-sized thereafter.

Not sure whether CH4D will make a custom die from a chamber cast, but that might be an option. They are happy to export at least!

Back in the day (10 years ago?) Jim Goodwin of North Devon Firearm Services was the solution for custom dies when Peter Davern retired here in Oz, but I know Jim has long-retired also and the NDFS name is being used in the US now, by a company that refuses to export outside the States. They might still be an option, but you would need a sympathetic forumite to do the transaction within the US and then ship the dies to you, as the new NDFS emphatically refuse to export outside the States!

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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Ash
.400 member


Reged: 10/05/11
Posts: 1653
Loc: Australia
Re: Charles Lancaster oval bore DR [Re: Marrakai]
      #340149 - 16/04/20 08:17 PM

I agree, don’t modify chambers! But i suggest doing what Lancaster here would do (funny, considering the gun is a Lancaster.

He’d work out how to make cases the way it was intended for this gun. I reckon you should do that. It’ll make it so satisfying to use, much more than just loading a standard case IMO.

Great gun.

--------------------
.

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