Maineguide
.275 member
Reged: 09/03/05
Posts: 88
Loc: New Hampshire
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Holy Cow! I just got through watching Mark Sullivan's latest film and there was a scene in there of a buffalo hunt. The client puts at least six .375's into the animal with little or no effect and then MK dumps the buff with a .500 NE. As they approach the downed animal MK instructs the client to finish him off. The guy tries to shoot the buff but had forgot to chamber a round, in his heightened state of mind he thens works the bolt and somehow the gun goes off before its aimed. The buff tries to regain his feet but can't,the sport then finally puts a finishing round into the buff. Now I know all the stuff about shot placement but there is no question that the big gun makes a noticable difference when the buff is hit vs. the .375 and in the MK type of make something happen hunting, I would make sure I had enough gun. I will say that the video is exciting and MK can sure shoot a big DR well. This video is worth twice the price
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475Guy
.400 member
Reged: 22/08/03
Posts: 1088
Loc: Kali, US
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You ought to be glad you didn't post this on ARForums. All the MS haters will jump outta the woodwork. I've seen his flicks and will admit he's a good shot, he's had plenty of practice. The main reason I've watched his vids was to see what quality animals can be had in Tanzania and whatever other folks say, he'll put guys up on outstanding trophies. I just can't stand his "over-the-top" demeanor in the last few flicks. When I finally get affairs together to try for those critters, I'm not giving none of them a chance to choose their way to die; I'm going to shoot 'em straight away when I see 'em.
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Lo do they call to me,
They bid me take my place among
them in the Halls of Valhalla,
Where the brave may live forever.
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mickey
.416 member
Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
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Part of MS's contract is that he owns all video of the hunts that are taken and he has the right to do with it as he will. I doubt if the tyro is happy about having his actions on film.
He paid a lot of money for the hunt to be made to look like a fool.
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Lovu Zdar
Mick
A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.
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Maineguide
.275 member
Reged: 09/03/05
Posts: 88
Loc: New Hampshire
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.475guy,
I have watched his previous films and I must say I love seeing the guns he uses, .450 no2 , 500ne, .577ne ,600ne. I mean where can you see all these guns in action. Whether you agree with his brand of charge or run hunting. I can't stop watching to see what happens next. As far as the dialog, I will have to aggree with you, its over the top.
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475Guy
.400 member
Reged: 22/08/03
Posts: 1088
Loc: Kali, US
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I generally fast forward to just the guys with doubles and the end result anyways.
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Lo do they call to me,
They bid me take my place among
them in the Halls of Valhalla,
Where the brave may live forever.
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500grains
.416 member
Reged: 16/02/04
Posts: 4732
Loc: Salt Lake City, Utah USA
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I have watched all the MS films. MS does not behave the way I would hope for a PH to behave, so he is not on my list of people I want to book with. But he obviously has steady nerves and is addicted to adrenaline.
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4seventy
Sponsor
Reged: 07/05/03
Posts: 2210
Loc: Queensland Australia
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Maineguide,
IMO one of the things that makes Mark Sullivans videos good (besides all those lovely big doubles) is that many of the kills are right up close, only a few feet from the hunters and the camera.
This is a lot better than lots of hunting footage where you can hardly see what is happening because there is too much bush in the way or the camera dude is not in the right spot or something similar.
The buff or hippo on MS's films are filling your tv screen before they are finished off!
There are lots who don't seem to like the way he does things however.
But thats the way things are always going to be I guess.
If you are into double rifles and have not seen the film "Death by Double Rifle" by a different guy by the name of Mark Buchanan, you should get hold of a copy as it is well worth watching to. 
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Maineguide
.275 member
Reged: 09/03/05
Posts: 88
Loc: New Hampshire
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Thanks 4seventy, I'll do that straight away.
Maineguide
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clark7781
.375 member
Reged: 28/10/04
Posts: 612
Loc: Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
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Personally, MS can go pound sand. In my opinion he is the antithesis of a responsible hunter. I think it is the hunter's responsibility to end the life of his prey as quickly as possible to end any prolonged suffering.
That being said, I do enjoy the footage on his videos (as long as it is action--the parts where he talks or pontificates makes me want to turn the video off.)
The man does have balls of solid rock and can shoot those big bores with the best of them.
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Clark
Double Rifle Shooters Society
.500 NE and .577 NE
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500grains
.416 member
Reged: 16/02/04
Posts: 4732
Loc: Salt Lake City, Utah USA
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Other good films are "With Deadly Intent" and "Hunters adn Ivory". www.outdoorvisions.com
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clark7781
.375 member
Reged: 28/10/04
Posts: 612
Loc: Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
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NE450No2 should market the video he made of his safari last year. I saw it at the DRSS hunt and it was a lot better than some of the other crap peddled at gun shows.
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Clark
Double Rifle Shooters Society
.500 NE and .577 NE
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DUGABOY1
.400 member
Reged: 02/02/03
Posts: 1340
Loc: TEXAS USA
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All the above films are good, and another one is "DANGEROUS GAME and DOUBLE RIFLES" also from outdoor Visions!
What Mark Sulivan does up close doesn't take balls, it only takes practice! A buffalo in not hard to brain at 10 feet in the open! If you will notice, in all his films, the charges are on animals that are in the open. You will never see him stand a charge in heavy bush! Also, he knows what to tackel! How about the look in his eyes on the film "SUDDEN DEATH" where he is getting ready to go into the tight bush after a wounded lion. ABSOLUTE FEAR presonafied!  Haveing said that, in the case of the lion, I don't blame him, as the African lion scares hell right out of me, especially if gut shot. Buffalo in the open, even close don't bother me much, but a lion with a hole poked in his belly, in the long grass, or even in the open but close, is a whole different thing!
Mark Sulivan films are good study films. They will teach you what the body luangue of a buffalo means, and if you like double rifles most of his films have pleanty of double rifle footage. They also bring to fore the fact that, once wounded, a Cape Buffalo can take a lot of punishment without going down, and that once a charge starts, he will not turn. The only shot that will terminate the charge is one to the central nervous system, brian, or spine!
I believe Mark to be a very good PH, in the relm of procureing quality trophies for his clients to take home, but he usually shoots them himself! 
I bought all his films till he came out with SUDDEN DEATH, and that was the last one I've bought. I quite buying them after that film, because it brought out the fact that he will let an animal suffer for a long time in the background, while he talks about how brave he is, and how good his concession is, instead of finishing the buff's suffering, and then talking! POOR SPECTICAL! 
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..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"
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clark7781
.375 member
Reged: 28/10/04
Posts: 612
Loc: Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
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In reply to:
that he will let an animal suffer for a long time in the background, while he talks about how brave he is, and how good his concession is, instead of finishing the buff's suffering, and then talking! POOR SPECTICAL!
AMEN!!!!!!!!
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Clark
Double Rifle Shooters Society
.500 NE and .577 NE
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500grains
.416 member
Reged: 16/02/04
Posts: 4732
Loc: Salt Lake City, Utah USA
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In reply to:
NE450No2 should market the video he made of his safari last year. I saw it at the DRSS hunt and it was a lot better than some of the other crap peddled at gun shows.
I told him the exact same thing. As far as quality and cinematography, NE450No2's video is the best I have seen in a hunting video. Only a Danish elephant hunting video is on par with it.
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luv2safari
.400 member
Reged: 09/11/03
Posts: 1413
Loc: United States
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There has to be a reason why Sullivan is able to stage all these "charges"...gut-shooting, maybe? 
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Hunt with Class and Classics
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475Guy
.400 member
Reged: 22/08/03
Posts: 1088
Loc: Kali, US
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Looks like some of the critters were gut-shot. Have you noticed that almost to a man, the boltgun shooters shoot and take the rifle off their shoulders and admire the shot? Even in the last few flicks, the guys who borrow MS's 450-400 shoot then pull the rifle down and admire the shot. Ridiculous.
 
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Lo do they call to me,
They bid me take my place among
them in the Halls of Valhalla,
Where the brave may live forever.
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Maineguide
.275 member
Reged: 09/03/05
Posts: 88
Loc: New Hampshire
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Well guys I met MK at SCI last year and he seemed like a perfect gentleman. I also know of a fellow who actually hunted with him and had only good things to say about him. I know its easy to pick out things that one may not like, you can do that to almost any hunting or fishing video that's every been done. We all know its best to return a fish to water with haste so as not to harm or kill the fish, but we see video's over and over that have a guide or outfitter holding the fish up for the camera for extended periods of time. In the video's of MK's that I've seen he always lets the clients shoot first and when the animal keeps going he then let's go. I would hunt with him if I could afford it and then decide what he's like. I will say that up until know I have not seen more exciting video. But I will order what's been suggested in the previor threads as I just can't get enough lately.
Maineguide
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475Guy
.400 member
Reged: 22/08/03
Posts: 1088
Loc: Kali, US
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Wait until you receive your 577NE, then book a hunt with him. 
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Lo do they call to me,
They bid me take my place among
them in the Halls of Valhalla,
Where the brave may live forever.
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luv2safari
.400 member
Reged: 09/11/03
Posts: 1413
Loc: United States
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Have you ever heard of editing? He gut shoots the animals and stages the footage, so say many respected outfitters and PHs. It is pretty much the skinny on him and his videos. I may be wrong, but look and decide for yourself.
In one sequence I've seen he waits until a badly wounded buffalo gets back up on its feet and gives a last staggering charge, then shoots it at close quarters. What decent PH would let the buffalo get back up?! It is about as crazy a thing to do as running up and kissing it. This is obviously done to stage a "charge". I seen no ethics in this, either in regard to the animal or the client.
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Hunt with Class and Classics
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NitroX
.700 member
Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 40612
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
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If you shot a buffalo, in the lungs, and got into its "face", don't you think that also would provoke a charge? I don't think a gutshot is necessary.
The usual practice is to shoot the buff and if it runs off, give it some time to stop and lie up. Someone once questioned why is this acceptable strategy any more or less ethical, than an immediate follow-up where the buff is perhaps more alert.
Also approaching the buff from its head and perhaps with the wind behind you may also create a charge.
Remember most of us do not want a charge so do it differently.
A reason why films show buffalo in the open charging may be because these bulls have the acceptable footage for commercial sales.
Just some ideas.
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John aka NitroX
 ...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"
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Maineguide
.275 member
Reged: 09/03/05
Posts: 88
Loc: New Hampshire
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MK states that he gives the animal the choice of charging or running. In his words he thinks that to blast an animal who is wounded from 60 feet is just killing, but that to give the animal the chance to charge is more ethical. Doing it "his way" he feels he tests himself each time. Also, purposely gut shooting an animal is beneath low, I really don't see that in the video's. Its his clients who shoot first and in several scene's his follow up shots anchor the animal. His method of hunting hippo's is I believe better than popping them from a boat or from shore when they come up for air. I have to say, he makes a good case for his type of hunting.
Maineguide
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clark7781
.375 member
Reged: 28/10/04
Posts: 612
Loc: Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
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In reply to:
he tests himself each time.
I thought it's all about the client while on safari? Seems to me that he test's his manhood on other people's time and dime.
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Clark
Double Rifle Shooters Society
.500 NE and .577 NE
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clark7781
.375 member
Reged: 28/10/04
Posts: 612
Loc: Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
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But there is no doubt that MS gets some amazing critters for his clients and everyone I've spoken to who has hunted with him said he was an outstanding PH, very focused and driven.
He's not for everyone, that's why there are so many safari outfits out there.
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Clark
Double Rifle Shooters Society
.500 NE and .577 NE
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DUGABOY1
.400 member
Reged: 02/02/03
Posts: 1340
Loc: TEXAS USA
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Mainguide , let's look at it this way! There are those who have, over 50 yrs or so, taken thousands of Buffalo, while hunting, culling, and backing up client hunters, that have, to a man, not encountered more than three or four un provoked charges in all that time, and on that many buffalo. This seems to be the way Buffalo act, when hunted properly. Now, I ask you doesn't that tell you something, about all the charges MS gets? 
How, I ask you, is it that on every tape produced by MS, there are at least four or five charges from Buffalo? I submit to you, these charges are purposely provoked for the film. I don't think they are purposely GUT SHOT, but they have ALL been shot many times to take a little steam out of his charge, by both the client, and MS.
All animals have a set of circles around them, that are with the first circle farthest out from center,(center being where the animal is) #1 he watches with interest , the next one closer to the animal is #2 he's Guarded, #3 is flight, or fight,unwounded, he usually will take flight here, and finally #4 when you are too close, and the lable is FIGHT!!!!!!!!!!, and once the charge starts, he will not turn, or stop, but he is easy to stop with the right rifle, and if he is in the open.MS's charges always are in the open. MS knows this, and he also knows that with a Cape Buffalo, the spaces between these circles gets very narrow if he is already wounded, and his fight juices are flowing. MS purposely invades this inner circle to cause the buffalo to charge, by not only getting too close, but by makeing sudden twichy moves in his body luangue that the buff takes as starting a fight. If you consider, as MS does, this is ethical treatment of a beast you are about to kill, especially since he's wounded, and suffering,then I'm sorry for you, and MS. I believe we owe the animals we hunt a quick, clean passing, aminestering as little suffering as is possible. Letting a Buffalo with a broken back drag himself for ten minutes while talking into a camera, and then to advance on him, knowing he CAN'T CHARGE, then talk another two or three minutes, while the bull trys to drag himself toward MS to try to protect himself, is in my opinion, not only unethical, but criminal!
The scene I have just described is in the film "SUDDEN DEATH" by MS, and there was nothing sudden about that Buffalo's death. Up untill that film, I bought every film he put out, but that film, is the straw that finally broke the camel's back, with me on MS! I haven't bought another since, and don't intend to. It's too bad really, because as I said in my previous post, he is a good PH, and he gets fine trophies for his clients, but he usually shoots them himself! It stands to reason if I wouldn't buy his films, I certainly wouldn't hunt with him, even if I could afford to.
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..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"
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Maineguide
.275 member
Reged: 09/03/05
Posts: 88
Loc: New Hampshire
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Dugaboy1,
As stated in previous posts, is it more ethical to wait out a wounded animal, let him "stiffen up" for an hour or more before following up? Wounded animals happen in hunting, I don't think MS's way is anymore wrong than waiting an animal out to suffer and bleed to death.
My point is, just because his way is different than yours does not mean your's is more or less ethical. After all,none of the accusations are founded in fact just opinoions from people who have not hunted with MS. I don't think MS would purposely wound an animal. I doubt he'd stoop that low. And the time lengths you claim animals suffered in the film sudden death are at best an exaggeration. So save your sorry feelings for the bulls in the spainish arena's, though I don't feel bull fighting is unethical either.
Maineguide
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