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260rem
.375 member

Reged: 16/04/06
Posts: 757
Loc: NSW Australia

Pedersoli rifles?
#63914 - 12/10/06 06:11 PM

I was looking at the Pedersoli web site as I have been thinking about trying my hand at black powder when I saw that they make double rifles also.

I was looking at a buying a Capuis double next year but when I saw the Kodiak MK IV I realy liked the old world look of it I would concider buying one in 9.3X74R or better yet in 45/70 so that I could re-chamber it to 45/90.
My only concern is that it has hammers I actualy realy like the look of them but I am unsure as to the wisdom of having hammers on a DG rifle that will be used for Buffalo (water)

Also how would a .58 cal black powder double go on Buffalo? I think that it would make fine Deer gun but I have no idea just how well they would go on something the size of Buffalo.

--------------------
One shot is all you need.

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EDELWEISS
.375 member

Reged: 22/11/05
Posts: 604
Loc: Gettysburg

Re: Pedersoli rifles? [Re: 260rem]
#63932 - 13/10/06 02:52 AM

Heres the little I can offer. I too like the Pedersoli rifles. I have a double muzzle loader made by CVA in 50 caliber. I would have prefered the 72 cal; but I got mine used for a great trade. You'll have to ask others for recommendations about the 58cal for buff; BUT I did see a TV show where the guy was using his 58 cal Pedersoli to hunt elephant. He was using a solid (not lead) bullet not a sabot with a plastic base, so that the bullet was the full 58 cal size. He took the bull with a brain shot. I was impressed.

Regarding the cartridge rifle. I really like the old world looks. Personally I dont believe the hammers will be a problem if you practice before the hunt. Get used to them just like a safety. They have the advantage of being quiet if you press the trigger when you cock the hammer, plus there is no pressure on the springs when its not cocked. Perhaps thats not a big issue but Kreighoff built a special system into their "hammerless" guns to cock/uncock them.

Now as far as cartridge choice, heres what I have been told by others with African experience. The Pedersoli is a copy of a Colt double rife originally in 45-70. As far as I know 45-70 is not legal for Dangerous Game in any of the African countries. So if DG is in your plans, you have a couple choices. The 9.3x74R is a classic big game cartridge and legal for dangerous stuff. Your other option is to have the 45-70 rechambered. I have heard of good experience with 450NE or 450 No2. As a happy bonus they are supposed to shoot to the same point of impact.

My only real complaint with the cartridge guns are the price, here in the US they run about $3500 and the 9.3 is usually a special order. Ive heard about a gunsmith McCools(?) that will do the 450 rechamber for $100+/-.
So there you have what little I can offer. keep us informed on your decision. GOOD LUCK

--------------------
If it's not custom, it's just borrowed

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CptCurl
.450 member

Reged: 01/05/04
Posts: 5269
Loc: Fincastle, Botetourt County, V...

Re: Pedersoli rifles? [Re: 260rem]
#63935 - 13/10/06 03:53 AM

I would be verious dubious about re-chambering the .45/70 Pedersoli. I too have read some of the glowing reports about re-chambering these rifles, especially as posted on AR.

I personally owned a Pedersoli .45/70 and tried it with a variety of loads. I found the rifle to be very sensitive to both bullet weight and powder charge, just as most double rifles are.

It was quite obvious that my rifle was regulated for the Remington 405 grain factory load, or its equivalent. Any heavier bullet caused the barrel groups to spread. Any lighter bullet (such as the 350 Hornady) caused the barrel groups to cross. Increases in powder charge over the Remington 405 grain equivalent caused barrel groups to diverge, and I got into trouble with extraction before I got out of the "Marlin" loads.

In my mind, it's a pipe dream to think of the Pedersoli .45/70 as being anything but what it is. I would never have it re-chambered unless I was willing to bet the whole rifle on the result. You'll end up with unsellable junk.

But I don't mean to sound negative. The Pedersoli .45/70 is a fine rifle in its own right. Mine was accurate, well-regulated, and shot right to the sights - WITH THE LOAD IT WAS MADE TO SHOOT!

I agree, hammers are ok. Just a matter of practice. You'll like them!

Here are some photos of mine: Curl's Pedersoli .45/70

NEW LINK
http://www.rbsiii.com/collection/rifles/pedersoli_45_70/pedersoli_45_70.htm

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.

Edited by NitroX (09/03/20 03:39 PM)

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Chasseur
.375 member

Reged: 18/11/03
Posts: 771
Loc: Hunting classic Indian game!

Re: Pedersoli rifles? [Re: 260rem]
#63936 - 13/10/06 04:13 AM

Hi,

I've had limited experience with the cartridge guns, having shot Curly's a few times. But I've owned a 58 ML for over a year now. It groups well at 50 yards with 100gr of Goex FF and .570 Speer round balls. My next project is to try with with 777 and conicals and other bullets. Past 100grs it crosses so I would not feel comfortable taking it for dangerous game, though I'm curious to shoot either black bear or a red stag with it.

They are really a good deal for the price. Though I find my a bit too muzzle heavy, the trigers are creepy, and I'd like to get different sights on it. But part of me resists spending another $300-400 on a gun that did not cost much more than that...

--------------------
In regards to action he should devote himself to hunting...
-Machiavelli

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butchloc
.300 member

Reged: 18/12/04
Posts: 230
Loc: faribault mn

Re: Pedersoli rifles? [Re: Chasseur]
#63941 - 13/10/06 04:51 AM

i've had the 58 cal ML double for several years, mine is so old that it has a 3 digit serial # and was regulated with one rear sight. The newer ones have 2 rear sights so you sight one for each barrel. mine regulated with 144 gr of pyrodex and a 330 gr REAL conical bullet. With that load its great. A guy at work bought the 9.3x74 a bit ago and couldn't get to shoot decent no matter what he did. he finally sold it. For the costs involved today I wouldn't really look to seriously at them. there's only a little more involved to find a decent 9.3x74R

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Chasseur
.375 member

Reged: 18/11/03
Posts: 771
Loc: Hunting classic Indian game!

Re: Pedersoli rifles? [Re: Chasseur]
#63943 - 13/10/06 05:05 AM

Butch,

Acutally mine is one of the later ones with the two sights and you don't need to use one sight for each barrel (at least one mine). I've worked up a load that regulates with the front sight only. I'd actually like to get proper express sights and get rid of those silly buck horn flip ups that it has...

--------------------
In regards to action he should devote himself to hunting...
-Machiavelli

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AkMike
.416 member

Reged: 19/11/05
Posts: 2576
Loc: Anchorage, Alaska

Re: Pedersoli rifles? [Re: Chasseur]
#63951 - 13/10/06 07:35 AM

I bought a 9.3X74R Pedersoli to play with til my Chapuis gets here next month. IMHO it's a good beginers rifle that is fairly accurate. I got 3-4" goups @100yds over the hood of a pick up with factory Sellier&Bellot ammo. It's going with me to hunt Kodiak Island at the end of the month.
I expect better with the Chapuis and it'll be better with a scope with my eyesight.

--------------------
"When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing; when you see that money is flowing to those who deal not in goods, but in favors; you may know that your society is doomed." Ayn Rand

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mhb
.275 member

Reged: 20/09/05
Posts: 77
Loc: S.E. Arizona

Re: Pedersoli rifles? [Re: AkMike]
#63984 - 14/10/06 02:50 AM

FWIW, I bought one of the Pedersoli .45-70 doubles. It had bores which looked like they had been gnawed out by rats - very rough surface finish on both lands and grooves. To frost the cake, the groove diameters were too tight (.4555", or so). To be fair, I shot it - it keyholed within 10 rounds at 70 meters using the ammunition Pedersoli said they regulated the rifle with - Winchester 300 gr.
I was not amused, and contacted Pedersoli to tell them so - they were unimpressed, and, in essence, washed their hands of the matter.
I contacted one of the distributors of these rifles, who was kind enough to send me three more sets of barrels, which were each and every one as nasty as the first.
At that point, I gave them up as entirely unacceptable, and I really wanted one.
Caveat Emptor!
mhb - Mike

--------------------
Sancho! My armor!

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NitroX
.700 member

Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39203
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...

Re: Pedersoli rifles? [Re: mhb]
#63989 - 14/10/06 03:54 AM

I would not have a problem hunting either water or cape buffalo with a suitable calibre double rifle with hammers.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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Michael
.275 member

Reged: 28/07/05
Posts: 69
Loc: Darwin, Northern Territory

Re: Pedersoli rifles? [Re: NitroX]
#64028 - 14/10/06 09:36 PM

Hi All,

I saw this post yesterday but decided to hold off on replying until after I had taken my new (seconhand) Pedersoli 8x57JRS for a run at the range today.

I do not know what the rifle has been regulated with but had some handloads that I purchased with the rifle and some newly arrived factory Norma ammo. The handloads were two different sorts 125gr@2600fps; 175gr@2300fps (as written on the inside of the ammo box by the previous owner); and the factory ammo was listed as 196gr@2395fps as per the box.

Without going into the detail of each target shot the general concensus was that the Pedersoli grouped each bullet together on the target regardless of load. The only problem was that this group was about 3 - 4 inches low and another 1 - 2 inches to the right. Target after target was the same. I was shooting off a bench at 50 yards using the iron sights.

On my last target for the day I changed the way I used the sight. I held the forsight very, very low in the notch on the rear-sight. So low in fact that the bead was barely visible and then I held a little high on the target as well. The end result can be seen in this photo of the eight shot group.

As you can see the group is still low but I believe that the grouping is exceptional (well better than I expected) for a cheap double rifle. Certainly no evidence of key-holing or any other issues that have been spruiked about on here and elsewhere.

Regardless of this the rifle just feels right in the hands on a hunt and is a great entry level rifle for us newbie double rifle enthusiasts.

I look forward to any suggestions or experience that you guys may with the low shooting iron sights. My own opinion after today is that I may have to talk to a gunsmith to see what we can do to replace the forsight with something lower, or use the first standing leaf and aim a bit lower but this really isn't my preferred option.

Thanks,

Michael.

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mehulkamdar
.416 member

Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 3688
Loc: State of Ill-Annoy USA.

Re: Pedersoli rifles? [Re: 260rem]
#64060 - 15/10/06 03:52 PM

Gun Digest 2007 has a very detailed article about converting the Pedersoli DR in 45-70 to 450 3 1/4" BPE, a conversion that the author says is perfect for it. I only wish Pedersoli would take heed and start making BPE rifles themselves. They would definitely have a hit on their hands.

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar

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260rem
.375 member

Reged: 16/04/06
Posts: 757
Loc: NSW Australia

Re: Pedersoli rifles? [Re: 260rem]
#64242 - 18/10/06 07:06 PM

I’m leaning towards the muzzleloader at the moment, mostly as I have wanted to try it for a while and I think that 2 barrels would be better then one.
I could also get a set of 12ga BP barrels while I’m at it and I can fork out for a nice DB in some 45cal this time next year.

--------------------
One shot is all you need.

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jscybercat
.224 member

Reged: 22/02/06
Posts: 23
Loc: S.E. Alberta, Canada

Re: Pedersoli rifles? [Re: 260rem]
#65024 - 01/11/06 02:46 PM

My Pedersoli is rechambered to 450 No.2 but I still haven't fired it yet: Kynoch rounds seem to bind a little when I close the action so I'm sending it off to the gunsmith for a look. The bore and everything else looks great, no rats or anything. I'll let you know when I get it back and shoot it a bit.

What's a decent press for reloading this monster?

Regards:

J. Shields

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NitroX
.700 member

Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39203
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...

Re: Pedersoli rifles? [Re: CptCurl]
#338883 - 09/03/20 03:42 PM

Quote:

I would be verious dubious about re-chambering the .45/70 Pedersoli. I too have read some of the glowing reports about re-chambering these rifles, especially as posted on AR.

I personally owned a Pedersoli .45/70 and tried it with a variety of loads. I found the rifle to be very sensitive to both bullet weight and powder charge, just as most double rifles are.

It was quite obvious that my rifle was regulated for the Remington 405 grain factory load, or its equivalent. Any heavier bullet caused the barrel groups to spread. Any lighter bullet (such as the 350 Hornady) caused the barrel groups to cross. Increases in powder charge over the Remington 405 grain equivalent caused barrel groups to diverge, and I got into trouble with extraction before I got out of the "Marlin" loads.

In my mind, it's a pipe dream to think of the Pedersoli .45/70 as being anything but what it is. I would never have it re-chambered unless I was willing to bet the whole rifle on the result. You'll end up with unsellable junk.

But I don't mean to sound negative. The Pedersoli .45/70 is a fine rifle in its own right. Mine was accurate, well-regulated, and shot right to the sights - WITH THE LOAD IT WAS MADE TO SHOOT!

I agree, hammers are ok. Just a matter of practice. You'll like them!

Here are some photos of mine: Curl's Pedersoli .45/70

NEW LINK
http://www.rbsiii.com/collection/rifles/pedersoli_45_70/pedersoli_45_70.htm

Curl

Updated link.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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