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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: A Howdahing Moment! [Re: NitroX]
      #337781 - 10/02/20 10:28 PM

Since purchased by fellow NE member "264".

First Hunt with Fat Lady

http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=231809&an=&page=0&vc=1



Open image in new tab to see, and/or visit the thread.

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John aka NitroX

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"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: A Howdahing Moment! [Re: NitroX]
      #337782 - 10/02/20 10:45 PM



While long barrelled, my 1876 10-bore Westley Richards double has as mentioned no standing leaf, so may as described in Marrakai's article, being designed for quick shooting.

I do hope it was once used on a howdah on an elephant's back for Tiger, Leopard, Buffalo, Gaur, Rhino, Sambar or other beasts of prey.

If only some of these firearms could speak.

And before someone asks, loads have not been developed for it yet. I should spend less time creating posts on NE for people to read.



In my opinion any good howdah firearm should have hammers. Especially any pistol or other howdah firearm for emergency defence. As the chambers can be loaded, the hammers down or half cocked and locked. And the handgun or short gun ready for sudden need.

Many of the modern Euro rifles have decocking 'safeties' and so would be suitable. Krieghof is a double rifle with decocking safetis.



A long barrelled rifle like this, would be awkward to move and swing around sitting on a howdah platform.

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John aka NitroX

...
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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TH44
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Re: A Howdahing Moment! [Re: NitroX]
      #337822 - 11/02/20 11:12 AM

I have previously posted this, but for interest





Bought as a "Howdah Rifle" some years ago It is in .577/500 No.2 Express

It was cut down in the dim and distant past

With 19 inch barrels and 8 1/2 lbs weight it is relatively handleable

Whether ever used in a Howdah is debateable but more likely than almost any of the so-called "Howdah" pistols sold by dealers everywhere at high prices

The only reference to such arms I have read about in any of the many books I have read of that era was a 12 bore loaded with 1 barrel ball and the other LG (00 buck to our transatlantic friends)

TH44


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Daryl_S
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Re: A Howdahing Moment! [Re: NitroX]
      #337847 - 12/02/20 04:57 AM

Quote:



While long barrelled, my 1876 10-bore Westley Richards double has as mentioned no standing leaf, so may as described in Marrakai's article, being designed for quick shooting.






John - Forsyth wrote of this type of sighting (all leaves down) for DR's, in that the enlarged breech & rib height, gave ample elevation to the ball for point blank shooting.
This will certainly be fun testing in such a beautiful rifle.

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Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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577Rodda
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Re: A Howdahing Moment! [Re: Daryl_S]
      #338095 - 18/02/20 08:57 AM

What they need


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TH44
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Re: A Howdahing Moment! [Re: 577Rodda]
      #338100 - 18/02/20 11:17 AM





Excellent pistol I am jealous about all the accessories!

I have not seen another like mine, most interesting

What is the calibre? Mine is .500 x 1.5"

With the very early hammers I would estimate 1870 ish, what do you think?

TH44

Edited by TH44 (18/02/20 11:25 AM)


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577Rodda
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Re: A Howdahing Moment! [Re: TH44]
      #338112 - 18/02/20 01:27 PM

It was sold by R B Rodda, caliber is .577 x 2" (Snider).
Actual maker is unknown, Birmingham proofs.
I would agree on the date period.


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: A Howdahing Moment! [Re: 577Rodda]
      #341668 - 03/06/20 10:29 PM

Tags: "Howdah"

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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Daryl_S
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Re: A Howdahing Moment! [Re: 577Rodda]
      #341693 - 04/06/20 08:28 AM

Quote:

What they need






The round & cases in the box appears to be the .577 Boxer, is it not?
I just seem to recall it's name. It is quite possible a .577 Snider chambered handgun or rifle, might fire the .577 Boxer round as well.

edited
found this when googling .577 Boxer:



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Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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93x64mm
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Re: A Howdahing Moment! [Re: Daryl_S]
      #341709 - 04/06/20 10:19 PM

Man, wouldn't that be a handful when it went off!
Mind you seeing a tiger charge up at you onto a back of an elephant.....I think recoil would be that last thing on your mind!


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lancaster
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Re: A Howdahing Moment! [Re: Daryl_S]
      #341724 - 05/06/20 04:40 AM

it looks like all 577 cartridges were made by cuting the original snider case

original snider

http://old.municion.org/577/577.htm


577 Snider 1 1/2"

http://old.municion.org/577/577Howdah1_5.htm

577 Howda pistol


http://old.municion.org/577/577HowdahPistolCoiled.htm

577 Revolver



http://old.municion.org/577/577RevolverCoiledLong.htm

577 British revolver


http://old.municion.org/577/577BritishRevolverBoxer.htm

577 Revolver


http://old.municion.org/577/577Revolver.htm

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Daryl_S
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Re: A Howdahing Moment! [Re: lancaster]
      #341726 - 05/06/20 04:52 AM

As far as ballistics are concerned, I'd want more than the .577 pistol round for expelling tigers. The 1 1/2" or full length would have been much better, I feel.

Seems to me, the article I read on the .577 Boxer (revolver) round had a 480gr. (or so) bullet at about 500fps. The round ball of about 295/300gr. were running
something like 650fps due to lighter weight and more room for an increased powder charge.

Certainly interesting 'stuff' lancaster. Thanks.

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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577Rodda
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Re: A Howdahing Moment! [Re: 93x64mm]
      #341730 - 05/06/20 08:52 AM

Quote:

Man, wouldn't that be a handful when it went off!
Mind you seeing a tiger charge up at you onto a back of an elephant.....I think recoil would be that last thing on your mind!




I totally agree, but the reply might be "what recoil?"

With 55 grains of black and a 300gr slug it will bite your second finger badly if you don't hang on with two hands!


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: A Howdahing Moment! [Re: 577Rodda]
      #341746 - 05/06/20 07:39 PM

What would the recoil be similar to? What sort of handgun and cartridge? For these various howdahs.

I really want one! I'd convert a side by side shotgun, but probably very illegal.

I'd like to have a shot or two with some of these side by side .577 howdahs. To see how they perform.

I think a howdah target competition should have a suddenly flipping up tiger target at very close range. Pull the howdah from a holster or hanging, and perhaps on a shakey platform on a big spring to simulate a howdah on an elephant.

A problem might be safety with a firearm. Especially not shooting oneself!

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


Edited by NitroX (26/08/20 07:04 AM)


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93x64mm
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Re: A Howdahing Moment! [Re: NitroX]
      #341757 - 05/06/20 10:10 PM

John,
In the National BGR rules the 'Howdah' pistol event isn't classed as one of the 'core' events - but it can be run by some branches as a supplementary event- Refer page 26.
https://ssaa.org.au/assets/disciplines/BGR-National-Rules-No.4-2016.pdf

17.1.15 Howdah Pistol
a. Minimum calibre .375
b. Single or double barrel
c. Smooth or ball rifling
d. Minimum muzzle energy 1,000 ft lbs
e. Minimum 300 grain bullet weight
FIRING SEQUENCE
Howdah Pistol (max. 10 shots)
 25yds – to be decided by Host Branch
 10yds – to be decided by Host Branch
(“Tiger” target if possible)

I've only heard of them & only 'seen' the ones displayed here in NE, perhaps contacting BGR national might be able to put you in contact with someone who has one?
https://ssaavic.com.au/disciplines/big-game-rifle/

They are a great bunch to deal with, always helpful with reloading tips & tricks to keep these old timers & 'oddities' up & running well
Hope this helps
93x64mm


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: A Howdahing Moment! [Re: 93x64mm]
      #341761 - 05/06/20 10:51 PM

Thanks.

I know.

Mine sounds like more fun.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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TH44
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Re: A Howdahing Moment! [Re: NitroX]
      #341779 - 06/06/20 07:19 AM

Hopefully I will put out a controversial post regarding these interesting pistols soon, having just bought another one?

TH44


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EDELWEISS
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Re: A Howdahing Moment! [Re: TH44]
      #341923 - 08/06/20 03:01 AM

Pardon my ignorance, I thought I knew what a Howdah PISTOL is/was; but Ive never heard of a Howdah RIFLE. Im confused and yet I kinda want one. Am I correct in thinking its a short Paradox? Or maybe just a "Coach Gun" used to shoot a bore size ball at close range? Is there more to it?

I have one of the Pedersoli muzzle loading Howdah pistols, its nice for a mass made BP specialty pistol but hardly reflects the original guns, in anything except maybe spirt. Ive been tempted by the Pedersoli 45/410 guns. They are priced out of any serious contention, save for just as a "this is cool" gun.

Ive handled and shot the old Ithaca Auto/Burglars with both pistol grip styles, neither felt as comfortable as a "sawed off shotgun" made from a full size gun. The 90degree grip angle of the Ithaca is brutal to hold and shoot.

I too am horrified by the looks of the "Diablo" 12 ga muzzle loader. It could have been so much better with longer barrels and a bigger grip. I keep looking for used SxS muzzleloaders as a project source.


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: A Howdahing Moment! [Re: EDELWEISS]
      #344612 - 26/08/20 07:15 AM

Some more images.







Images courtesy of Richard Eussen,. I will need to look up any description.












Images courtesy of Mark van der Bogaart.


Image of a gentleman's pistol, with folding bayonet fromt he movie "Ghost and the Darkness".



--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: A Howdahing Moment! [Re: NitroX]
      #344613 - 26/08/20 07:18 AM



Interesting .577 calibre, 480 grs lead bullet and 70 grains of black powder.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: A Howdahing Moment! [Re: NitroX]
      #344614 - 26/08/20 07:20 AM



That doesn't look like the appropriate cartridge for the pistol?

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John aka NitroX

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"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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sbs470
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Re: A Howdahing Moment! [Re: NitroX]
      #344646 - 27/08/20 07:33 AM

If it is the correct cartridge there may me a bit of muzzle flip

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EDELWEISS
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Re: A Howdahing Moment! [Re: NitroX]
      #344655 - 27/08/20 10:38 PM

Quote:



That doesn't look like the appropriate cartridge for the pistol?




Its hard to say from just the picture; but perhaps the cartridge was put there as a size reference, sorta like the way we put a cartridge next to a paw print to show the size of the beast?


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ducmarc
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Re: A Howdahing Moment! [Re: EDELWEISS]
      #344662 - 29/08/20 11:56 AM

what museum is that from?

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