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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Handguns

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Ripp
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Ballistic effectiveness..which handgun caliber is most eff?
      #337338 - 03/02/20 03:12 AM

https://www.shootingillustrated.com/arti...n-caliber-wins/

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ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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tinker
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Re: Ballistic effectiveness..which handgun caliber is most eff? [Re: Ripp]
      #337340 - 03/02/20 03:26 AM

All those tested look pretty nasty for the suggested "bad guy"

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--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...


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Daryl_S
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Re: Ballistic effectiveness..which handgun caliber is most eff? [Re: tinker]
      #337348 - 03/02/20 04:43 AM

Guess I'm a bit out of line, then. Right off the bat, I thought of my "carry loads", way back in the 70's.

My idea was a 4" .44 Mag. with 180gr. Sierra Jacketed Hollow Cavities with 27.0gr. 2400 for the bad guys. Never fired one in
the line of duty.

I had those alternated with 275gr. Keith Style SWC loaded with 21.0gr. 2400 for engine blocks. They worked in all of the tests.

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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tinker
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Re: Ballistic effectiveness..which handgun caliber is most eff? [Re: Daryl_S]
      #337372 - 03/02/20 01:50 PM

We had a talk at the bench the other day about 475 Linebaugh vs 500 JRH
Similar bullet weight vs velocity.
I'm soon to start a conversion of a Redhawk to 5-shot big bore. My thought, from the logical standpoint that greater sectional density of the 475 bullet would/should get better penetration (given similarly constructed hard cast flat points) than the 500 bullet.

Jack agreed with the logic, and explained that in this case, the logic of sectional density being the winner at penetration wasn't necessarily the winner after all.
After many scores of large bovine taken with both cartridges, the 500 tends to outpenetrate the 475, if only by a little bit - this is when comparing similar bullet weight and velocity 475 vs 500

This is via handgun, on live game.

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...


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Rule303
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Reged: 05/07/09
Posts: 3813
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Re: Ballistic effectiveness..which handgun caliber is most eff? [Re: Ripp]
      #337405 - 04/02/20 08:11 AM

OK so like all these tests they are skewed a bit. I think some, not by intention, but by the nature of the beast. Take the depth of penetration. Unless the shot is taken at a side profile or shooting from above/below why do we need 15" of penetration. 10" would be more than enough even from side on. So anything that would open up a bit faster and, or wider would be a good thing.

Then there is controllability so you can be back on target for subsequent shots.

The author has laid down the goal posts well. That is he is talking about non central nervous system hits. As we know a heart shot can be drop to the shot or keep going for upto 30seconds if on drugs about 10 to 15 if not.

Yes my ranting has a lot of holes in it. However I find the article very good. It shows, to me, what should be the more effective stoppers with modern semi auto pistol ammo.


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Ripp
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Re: Ballistic effectiveness..which handgun caliber is most eff? [Re: Rule303]
      #337415 - 04/02/20 03:52 PM

Quote:

OK so like all these tests they are skewed a bit. I think some, not by intention, but by the nature of the beast. Take the depth of penetration. Unless the shot is taken at a side profile or shooting from above/below why do we need 15" of penetration. 10" would be more than enough even from side on. So anything that would open up a bit faster and, or wider would be a good thing.

Then there is controllability so you can be back on target for subsequent shots.

The author has laid down the goal posts well. That is he is talking about non central nervous system hits. As we know a heart shot can be drop to the shot or keep going for upto 30seconds if on drugs about 10 to 15 if not.

Yes my ranting has a lot of holes in it. However I find the article very good. It shows, to me, what should be the more effective stoppers with modern semi auto pistol ammo.






I find your last sentence very amusing.. given the content of this article..
"Yes my ranting has a lot of holes in it."

In our testing we have done in various mediums.. the Hornady Critical Duty is what I have landed on provided I am using it for protection against 2 legged predators.. when both might be involved, I stick to Buffalo Bore.. wicked ammo .. loaded very hot.. but solid cast cores seems to do quick well on penetration even out of a 9mm.. ask Phil Shoemaker..he killed a griz with his 9MM using the same 147gr Ammo..

Agree with your comment, follow up shots are very important.. the info I have seen, the 9MM allows for the quickest, especially among less experienced shooters.. but even more so with experienced.. which is why many LE offices have gone back to the 9mm.. the "guys" I train with are all using 9mm for CC on a daily basis.. most are former special ops or retired SEALS.. figure if it works for them, will work for me..

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Daryl_S
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Re: Ballistic effectiveness..which handgun caliber is most eff? [Re: Ripp]
      #337437 - 05/02/20 05:08 AM

Yeah- OK, I'll concede. IF the 9mm is an 8shot wheelgun.

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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85lc
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Re: Ballistic effectiveness..which handgun caliber is most eff? [Re: Daryl_S]
      #337438 - 05/02/20 05:33 AM

Too bad the article did not include the 10mm. There are a number or rounds that seem fairly potent.

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RB


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Rule303
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Re: Ballistic effectiveness..which handgun caliber is most eff? [Re: 85lc]
      #337450 - 05/02/20 11:33 AM

Quote:

Too bad the article did not include the 10mm. There are a number or rounds that seem fairly potent.




True, the other thing missing is how do the various projectiles work if they hit bone and/or have to go through glass first.

Ripp, I am glad someone picked up on my "Holes in it" bit. I had it typed before I had thought of the pun. Like a lot of people I would rather a projectile/round that will get through a bit. Some of the 9mm rounds can not be relied on to take out the brain stem with a shot from the front as wont get through the teeth and other bones.

With the Glock I found I faster back on target with a 40 cal then +P 9mm. 9mm subsonics is another matter.


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Ripp
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Re: Ballistic effectiveness..which handgun caliber is most eff? [Re: Rule303]
      #337461 - 05/02/20 04:01 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Too bad the article did not include the 10mm. There are a number or rounds that seem fairly potent.




True, the other thing missing is how do the various projectiles work if they hit bone and/or have to go through glass first.

Ripp, I am glad someone picked up on my "Holes in it" bit. I had it typed before I had thought of the pun. Like a lot of people I would rather a projectile/round that will get through a bit. Some of the 9mm rounds can not be relied on to take out the brain stem with a shot from the front as wont get through the teeth and other bones.

With the Glock I found I faster back on target with a 40 cal then +P 9mm. 9mm subsonics is another matter.




Which glock you using??? I find my 34 and 19X to be reasonably quick

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
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Loc: Montana, USA
Re: Ballistic effectiveness..which handgun caliber is most eff? [Re: 85lc]
      #337479 - 05/02/20 11:44 PM

Quote:

Too bad the article did not include the 10mm. There are a number or rounds that seem fairly potent.




There are quite a few bow hunters in my area that carry a 10mm in bear country ...I personally still prefer a .44 Mag ....but, each to their own..

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Ballistic effectiveness..which handgun caliber is most eff? [Re: Ripp]
      #337484 - 06/02/20 12:33 AM

Interesting article. I'm still none the wiser.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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Ripp
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Re: Ballistic effectiveness..which handgun caliber is most eff? [Re: NitroX]
      #337487 - 06/02/20 02:31 AM

Quote:

Interesting article. I'm still none the wiser.




For humans in today's world.. go with a good bullet in 9mm --especially with the new norm of the perps now roaming more in packs.. usually more than one breaking into a house.. That's were the 15+ round mags come in handy.. I actually have a fully loaded 30 round for my Glock 17 with an attached light on it by my bedstand.. that, and a Mossberg 500 under the bed and Daniel Defense AR in the corner...

Can never be too careful..

Read an interesting article that may or may not come as a surprise to some.. IF you took out the top 5% of counties in the US as to crime, we would be one of the lowest crime nations of the free world.. NOT a surprise, most of the counties in that 5% are liberal Democrat counties.. SHOCKER..

I really do believe the nation is seeing through all the bullshit the libs are putting out.. ALL the impeachment crap pelosi, schumer, schiff, nadler put forth --and Mr. Trump has the highest approval rating of his presidency as of yesterday.... kind of a big fuck you to the dem's .. they are not going to have a good week.. completed botched the results of the caucus in Iowa.. Trump's State of the Union Speech.. and today Mr. Trump is being acquitted.. FOREVER..

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

Edited by Ripp (06/02/20 02:33 AM)


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Rule303
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Reged: 05/07/09
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Re: Ballistic effectiveness..which handgun caliber is most eff? [Re: Ripp]
      #337507 - 06/02/20 09:45 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Too bad the article did not include the 10mm. There are a number or rounds that seem fairly potent.




True, the other thing missing is how do the various projectiles work if they hit bone and/or have to go through glass first.

Ripp, I am glad someone picked up on my "Holes in it" bit. I had it typed before I had thought of the pun. Like a lot of people I would rather a projectile/round that will get through a bit. Some of the 9mm rounds can not be relied on to take out the brain stem with a shot from the front as wont get through the teeth and other bones.

With the Glock I found I faster back on target with a 40 cal then +P 9mm. 9mm subsonics is another matter.




Which glock you using??? I find my 34 and 19X to be reasonably quick




Ripp, standard Glock 17 and 22. I found the 40 cal to recoil straight back and up, just push forward and back on target. The 17 with +P's tended to come back and rise to the right from memory. So two dimensional movement not one. These are only small movements but still required. The G17 with subsonics is a different matter. The heavier 9mm's like the Highpower and CZ75 are a dream to use even with +P's.

Ripp that bit about violence in the US is fairly much what I tell people over here when they try and claim the US is a violent place.

Edited by Rule303 (06/02/20 10:35 AM)


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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: Ballistic effectiveness..which handgun caliber is most eff? [Re: NitroX]
      #337522 - 06/02/20 05:53 PM

Quote:

Interesting article. I'm still none the wiser.




I think the conclusion was bigger calibre cartridges make bigger holes ...

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Ballistic effectiveness..which handgun caliber is most eff? [Re: NitroX]
      #337523 - 06/02/20 05:56 PM

African Hunter magazine had an article once, where the criteria was I think to find a back up handgun against elephant. And penetration was the main objective. The .357 Magnum revolver and whatever loads were tested was the winner overall. Having the greatest penetration in I guess elephant skull bone or test material.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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Homer
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Re: Ballistic effectiveness..which handgun caliber is most eff? [Re: NitroX]
      #337526 - 06/02/20 06:30 PM

G'Day Fella's,

Thanks for sharing Ripp.

Horses for Courses but I imagine the best handgun for use against another human, is the one you have in your hand at the time. Defensive Ammo is so good these days, carry the gun your familiar with, and shoot well.

D'oh!
Homer

--------------------
"Beware the Lolly Pop of Mediocrity,
Lick it Once and You Will Suck Forever"


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