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AdamTayler
.375 member


Reged: 22/03/04
Posts: 688
Loc: B.C.
mountain horses
      #33700 - 23/06/05 04:05 PM

Does anyone have experience using horses for hunting? I am looking at getting a couple, broke to both ride and pack, but it seems everyone I talk to has a different opinion. I like Percherons but most people say they are too big, though admit a cross with a QH or TB would be good. A couple of people have told me that they had or knew of someone with Percherons and they were good in the mountains. Others mention Fjiords, Standardbreds, Arabs, Morgans or even grade horses (I think an Arab would be too hot). The hunting terrain would vastly vary. The concensus so far is a horse around 15.2 hands, with a good disposition, and great feet. Any info would be appreciated. Thanks.

Adam

--------------------
It's the journey, not the destination.


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Plains99
.300 member


Reged: 10/11/04
Posts: 225
Loc: Dodge City, Kansas, USA
Re: mountain horses [Re: AdamTayler]
      #33736 - 23/06/05 11:42 PM

Been there, done that, a number of times. You want a sturdy, settled horse of some size. Good feet and legs under him. I also believe that the workhorse breeds are too large. Quarter horses seem to work out very well for this duty but standard breds are just as good depending upon the animal. Have you considered a pack mule? On one trip I rode a mustang and we packed with him as well. He wasn't very big but he was tough as nails. Your size also dictates the size of the horse you want. The bigger you are the bigger your horse should be. You are getting into something that is generally not for the novice. Horse packing in the mountains takes skill, MONEY and a lot of horse sense. You need to have a thorough knowledge of horses and their care. You probably need to have professional training in loading, securing and balancing a pack animal. My advice is to go out with a good packer and milk him for all the advice and knowledge you can. Packing horses in the mountains is an art and there are very few left with the knowledge to do it properly.

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475Guy
.400 member


Reged: 22/08/03
Posts: 1088
Loc: Kali, US
Re: mountain horses [Re: AdamTayler]
      #33745 - 24/06/05 02:25 AM

What you may do is contact the ranches that have herds of 100 or more that have that type of terrain on their property. When the horses that are roaming in the mountains as colts with their family herd, they develop natural "feet" and seem to negotiate mountainous trails much better than any "Bred" horse out there. A lot of your "Breeds" you mention are great for regular trails but if you've been thrown on your ass by one just because the wind blew a little hard and a branch or two made weird noises, you know what I mean. Hope you find what you need since theyr're like owning 30' boats, a big hole you throw money into.

--------------------
Lo do they call to me,
They bid me take my place among
them in the Halls of Valhalla,
Where the brave may live forever.

Edited by 475Guy (24/06/05 04:04 AM)


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ovis
.300 member


Reged: 26/01/03
Posts: 216
Loc: Homer, Alaska
Re: mountain horses [Re: AdamTayler]
      #33746 - 24/06/05 03:07 AM

AT,

I had a Percheron/Apaloosa cross that was great.........some of the best I was around were draft horse crosses.........you'll find that a lot of the "mountain horses" used by some outfitters are actually rodeo stock and can be a little rank. I would second the idea of a good riding mule....I haven't ridden since moving up here.......my wife and I were talking about getting a horse the other night......sure miss them.

Joe

--------------------
"Where there's a hobble, there's hope."


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luv2safari
.400 member


Reged: 09/11/03
Posts: 1410
Loc: United States
Re: mountain horses [Re: Plains99]
      #33750 - 24/06/05 03:46 AM

In Nevada we have a seemingly endless supply of mustangs. They make wonderful mountain horses if tamed properly. My old Roman nosed strawberry roan, Chewy, was the best rough country horse I ever sat on. He was a little mustang that wandered onto the place off the desert during a bad drought...and didn't want to go back out there where life was so hard after he spent a couple weeks of being fed and watered every day. A friend sacked him and trained him to pack.

The only thing that spooked Chewy was dead fish...But that's another story...

--------------------
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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: mountain horses [Re: luv2safari]
      #33753 - 24/06/05 04:23 AM


luv2safari

The only thing that spooked Chewy was dead fish...But that's another story...

Well lets hear it, it sounds interesting !!!!

500 Nitro


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Plains99
.300 member


Reged: 10/11/04
Posts: 225
Loc: Dodge City, Kansas, USA
Re: mountain horses [Re: 500Nitro]
      #33758 - 24/06/05 05:15 AM

Some of the better horses I've ridden in the mountains were work horse crosses although I don't know what breeds any more. I'm 6'4" and 230 pounds and those horses worked out very well for me in the high country. But most of the time a good, big Quarter horse or standard bred did just as well. I like well trained mules but they are expensive and a lot of them can be difficult to handle. Same thing goes for a lot of the mustangs if they were broken late in life.
And as one other guy mentioned a lot of ranchers have bred up some mountain horse lines over the years that can be pretty impressive. 1/4 or 1/8 work horse blood can give you an animal that is big, tough and still moves well and is a nice ride. He may not be papered but still a fine mountain animal.


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luv2safari
.400 member


Reged: 09/11/03
Posts: 1410
Loc: United States
Re: mountain horses [Re: 500Nitro]
      #33775 - 24/06/05 02:41 PM

Chewy was a small horse. He was like sitting on a cloud...smooth and graceful...never stumbled or faltered. In the summer and fall I would like to ride him from my house, down to Washoe Lake, then along the broad sandy beach on the east side. The lake would go way down in the fall; it is a shallow lake that dries up at times. There are always potholes where carp and bullheads would survive, however.

This day the lake was about 2/3 full and the beach was quite wide, accordingly. It was a perfect Nevada fall day, about 80 degrees. I decided to wear shorts and a T-shirt with just cheap plastic flip-flops on my feet and ride Chewy bareback.

We were about 4-5 miles from the house, nearing the south end campground when I suddenly went into astronaut training. Chewy launched me straight up. It all seemed to act out in slow motion. I was in mid air, looking down at the ground (and Chewy) getting smaller. Well, the launch was aborted, and I plummeted back to earth next to Chewy. You know how a cat can defy gravity and lean over sideways at about a 30 degree angle? Well, horses can do anything a cat can! Chewy was leaning way to his left, ears back, nostrils flaring and eyes wide as flying saucers. He was frozen, except for trembling. His eyes were fixed to a spot on the beach about ten yards to his right. Now, this was a bare as bones beach, and I wondered what the hell he was looking at.

After shaking the sand out of my ears and the feathers out of my head I got up and walked to the spot Chewy was burning with his steady gaze. I found a five inch mummified carp...picked it up and walked back toward Chewy. He straightened up, still shaking, then crow hopped figure eights in the beach sand for a couple of go-rounds. Then, the worthless candidate for the glue pot of an SOB crazy good for nothing gelded stallion wann-a-be took off straight for the house...five miles back.

When I made it back to the house a couple of hours and a bit less skin on my feet later I found Chewy just about sitting on my wife's lap, still shaking. She was mad as an old wet hen because I must have beaten the poor horsey sans mercy; he was "so upset!" She coddled that stupid hay burner for weeks afterward. I sold Chewy to a riding stable owner shortly afterward. His name was Corky Prunty, and he was famous for his stable of misfits he called riding stock.

Chewy was on his very best behavior the day Corky drove out to look him over. He purred; he cuddled; he didn't blow out as I tightened the cinch; he was that same old cloud of a Chewy...RIGHT! Corky had his boy along to teach him how to horse trade. He offered me $500.00 cash for Chewy. Now, I'd have taken half that to get rid of him, but I gasped, choked, turned blue, then purple...grasping at my chest. Corky said OK, he'd pay $800.00 and not a penny more. I accepted his offer with proper reluctance and sorrow.

One thing I forgot to tell Corky is that Chewy doesn't like confined spaces...HORSE TRAILERS... With a little pulling and pushing we got him into the trailer and the door slammed shut. Corky winked at his son and headed down my road to Bench Road. We ran into the house, locked the doors and pulled closed the shades, then watched through a slit in the drapes. As Corky made his turn onto Bench Road, the trailer started to rock in earnest. Even at a quarter mile away and inside the house we could hear Chewy kick open the back door of the trailer. We watched Chewy return to his home...Corky cussed out his hapless kid, cussed the piece of shit horse trailer and kicked it, picked up the right trailer door and roped closed his broken trailer, then drove away...I'm sure he wasn't winking to his son now. The next time I saw Corky was many years later up in the Jarbidge Wilderness. He was renting his prime riding stock out to deer hunters. I stopped by and said hello; Corky wouldn't even acknowledge my presence. I think his pride ran off with that little strawberry roan.

--------------------
Hunt with Class and Classics


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500grains
.416 member


Reged: 16/02/04
Posts: 4732
Loc: Salt Lake City, Utah USA
Re: mountain horses [Re: luv2safari]
      #33776 - 24/06/05 03:09 PM

Mules.

They think they are smarter than the rider.

And usually they are right.


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475Guy
.400 member


Reged: 22/08/03
Posts: 1088
Loc: Kali, US
Re: mountain horses *DELETED* [Re: luv2safari]
      #33777 - 24/06/05 03:22 PM

Post deleted by 475Guy

--------------------
Lo do they call to me,
They bid me take my place among
them in the Halls of Valhalla,
Where the brave may live forever.


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rgp
.333 member


Reged: 17/06/04
Posts: 373
Loc: TX & VIC
Re: mountain horses [Re: 500grains]
      #33778 - 24/06/05 03:31 PM

Another vote for mules. More sure footed than any horse, and easier to get along with than llamas.

My grandfather told me tales of using a fast mule to sucker city kids out of money back before 1920 when most people still drove a horse everywhere. He said a fast mule would win but the city kids would put up their stabled horses as competition, thinking any horse would beat any mule. The farm kids walked off with the money on those bets.

If you prefer a really unusual option, llamas would do nicely for pack animals in the mountains. Downside of llamas is that they occasionally spit on you.

Richard.

Inflammatory Edit:

If you're dead set on horses, the Nez Pierce bred Appaloosas. They may be the only horses ever bred for your climate. And you can teach any horse to work saddle or pack. Additionally, ignore the BS about horse breeds. Any horse can be registered as a general rule and the rules for registry are pure garbage...read the registry rules for several breeds for an hour and you'll notice immediately that most "purebred" horses, including the "breeds" you mentioned, are usually halfbreed mutts.

Edited by rgp (24/06/05 03:40 PM)


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rgp
.333 member


Reged: 17/06/04
Posts: 373
Loc: TX & VIC
Re: mountain horses [Re: 475Guy]
      #33779 - 24/06/05 04:01 PM

475guy,

The typical horse, anywhere on earth, was trained by a complete moron. Try one that was properly trained instead of being beaten into submission by an idiot redneck who thinks he's a cowboy needing to treat it like crap until it quits bucking. Some of them actually beat the hell out of the horse for days as "primary training".

Most horses I've known, regardless of reputation, seem pretty easy to get along with. Most horse owners I've met, are not so easy.

Richard.


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475Guy
.400 member


Reged: 22/08/03
Posts: 1088
Loc: Kali, US
Re: mountain horses *DELETED* [Re: rgp]
      #33787 - 24/06/05 06:16 PM

Post deleted by 475Guy

--------------------
Lo do they call to me,
They bid me take my place among
them in the Halls of Valhalla,
Where the brave may live forever.

Edited by 475Guy (25/06/05 01:28 AM)


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Plains99
.300 member


Reged: 10/11/04
Posts: 225
Loc: Dodge City, Kansas, USA
Re: mountain horses [Re: 475Guy]
      #33809 - 25/06/05 12:24 AM

And then there is the situation where most or today's people are not familiar with horses or how to handle them. I was raised on a ranch and have worked with horses most of my life. I've gone out with some hunting groups on horseback where all I could do was shake my head and wonder how long it would be until the wreck happened. Fear of the animal, over direction on mountain trails when all they had to do was give the animal its head, poor physical condition, not paying attention to situations where the horse might react suddenly, pure ignorance of animal behavior in general. Most of the injuries I've seen have occured when the animal suddenly jumped or stopped in reaction to something that a good rider would have been watching for. But most people in today's society don't even know what to look for. They were doping in the saddle and were taken by surprise when the horse made a perfectly natural reaction to a stimulus.

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luv2safari
.400 member


Reged: 09/11/03
Posts: 1410
Loc: United States
Re: mountain horses [Re: rgp]
      #33812 - 25/06/05 02:21 AM

The only drawback to mules is the price for one. I can't get a mule here for less than $2,500.00, and I can adopt a mustang for $200.00. Before all this idiotic "save the wild horse" BS we just went out and caught what we needed and made pet food out of the scrubs.

I think a mule is the ultimate ATV!

--------------------
Hunt with Class and Classics


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475Guy
.400 member


Reged: 22/08/03
Posts: 1088
Loc: Kali, US
Re: mountain horses [Re: luv2safari]
      #33813 - 25/06/05 05:07 AM

L2S

Are you gonna name your next horse "ALPO"???

--------------------
Lo do they call to me,
They bid me take my place among
them in the Halls of Valhalla,
Where the brave may live forever.


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rgp
.333 member


Reged: 17/06/04
Posts: 373
Loc: TX & VIC
Re: mountain horses [Re: 475Guy]
      #33821 - 25/06/05 12:15 PM

I had no idea mules are now going for $2500 each, not having seen one for sale since 1980. Those prices would put mules into a more upscale market...

Richard.


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luv2safari
.400 member


Reged: 09/11/03
Posts: 1410
Loc: United States
Re: mountain horses [Re: 475Guy]
      #33823 - 25/06/05 01:23 PM

475Guy

Certainly not "Pedigree". Alpo might just work. My buddy named his wife's pot belly pigs "Bacon" and "Sausage".


rgp,

My neighbor down the road has three mules, a much nicer house, and a helluva lot more $$$ than I! It looks like Shank's-Mare for me again this hunting season...

--------------------
Hunt with Class and Classics


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AdamTayler
.375 member


Reged: 22/03/04
Posts: 688
Loc: B.C.
Re: mountain horses [Re: luv2safari]
      #33827 - 25/06/05 02:15 PM

L2S

I had a couple of pigs last year named "Backbacon" and "Porkchop". They tasted great.

500 Grains & RGP

As for mules, most everyone has said that they are great but they think and act differently than a horse. My experience with horses is minimal so I know at this time a mule would be way beyond my skill level. And if I did find a mule for sale, why is it for sale? From what I understand, a great mule is hard to come by.

475 Guy

Cost wise, the horse is the cheap part! Accumulating all the tack, trailer, truck to pull it with, feed, and farrier costs add up quickly. But what hobby is inexpensive? (By the way, boat stands for Bring Out Another Thousand). With quad restrictions and hunting pressure on the roads, I believe a horse is the next logical step (yes I know I can rent or borrow them, but to me it is like borrowing a gun or quad. I'll just get my own, thanks). If I want a stone sheep, for the most part I need to travel by horse.

Plains 99

I have hunting partners who have guided and have their own horses. They have introduced me to packing, and each have their own opinion about breeds, etc. I have a friend whose family has been in the horse business for generations and they are going to look out for a horse for me. I told them I was not going to settle for a good horse, but to inform me when they found a great one. I can get a standardbred pretty cheap if they can't make the time. They are already harness broke and would not take much to saddle break. They have good feet and bone as well. Temperment is a huge deciding factor for me as well.

Joe

I have picked up a Percheron that is almost 4 years old but plan to keep her as a brood mare. She may be bred to a Fiord that got into her pasture but will find out soon. If she is not in foal then I will look for an Appaloosa or a small TB.

Thanks to all for the input and looking forward to more.

Adam

--------------------
It's the journey, not the destination.


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rgp
.333 member


Reged: 17/06/04
Posts: 373
Loc: TX & VIC
Re: mountain horses [Re: AdamTayler]
      #33831 - 25/06/05 03:02 PM

Adam Taylor,

One thing I would suggest if planning to use the horses for hunting...

The U.S. Cavalry (and probably other mounted military units worldwide) used to publish their purchase selection criteria for horses and mules. Those manuals had a lot of "no BS" information that has long since died among most horse owners and breeders, especially relating to how to select a horse with a temperament ideal for tolerating gunfire and other situations that scare most horses.

I've got a copy of the U.S Cavalry's selection criteria, dated 1907, which unfortunately now is unusable because all the pages are stuck together with mildew. I read it once years ago before the book was damaged, and if planning on getting horses or mules for your intended use, you should try to find a useable copy of one of these books to read before making a purchase. Some of the information in it was not what most people would expect.

If hard to find (which is probably the case), these manuals were also occasionally published in their entirity in some veterinary manuals published before 1920 or so.

Richard.


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CptCurlAdministrator
.450 member


Reged: 01/05/04
Posts: 5307
Loc: Fincastle, Botetourt County, V...
Re: mountain horses [Re: AdamTayler]
      #33846 - 25/06/05 10:53 PM

Adam,

I don't know anything about horses except the nose goes in front and the tail in back.

As you know, I had the good fortune to go to B.C. on a bear hunt last month. My outfitter was Dempsey Callison, of Dease Lake and Smithers. My guide was Jimmy Peterson of Smithers. Both of those gentlemen have vast knowledge of horses and should understand your particular needs. They are both fine people, and I would think they would be glad to discuss horses with you. I'll be glad to send contact information by PM if you are interested in talking to them.

Regards,
Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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WyoJoe
.300 member


Reged: 18/02/04
Posts: 234
Loc: Cheyenne, WY USA
Re: mountain horses [Re: AdamTayler]
      #33857 - 26/06/05 03:13 AM

Here in Wyoming horses are the way to go for hunting. There are several breeds that are good. Ditto on what was said about mustangs. I had a little mare that was caught wild on the desert here in WY. She stood maybe 14 hands tall and weighed about 850. She would carry me in the mountains all day long and not stop until I stopped her. She had the sharpest sense of any horse I have ever seen.

Quarter Horse are pretty popular for hunting. Same with Quarter crosses. From what I have seen Arabs are hot. Take each one individually. Same way with TB's. Draft and draft crosses are good. Haven't used mules but I haven't heard anything bad about them in the hills. You might want to take your percheron mare and breed her to a mammoth jack. This is a really good combination. Crossing her with a TB would give you a good colt too. Tennessee Walkers are well respected in the mountains. I would like to try one crossed with a Quarter Horse.

Ann from Aspen Hill Adventures (she posts on this site and AR) did have a Belgian/TB gelding for sale. It might be worth you while to contact her.

One important thing I look for in a mountain horse is a good strong chest. You get one with a narrow chisel chest and they will have trouble going up hill & down. I would recommend a gelding. Mare can get tempremental. Studs can be dangerous.

Here are a couple of web sites where you can go and search for horses.

http://agdirect.com/scripts/main.exe?2053

http://www.equine.com/horses/search.asp?ignore=1001



--------------------
There comes a time when one must take a position that is neither safe, nor polite, nor popular -- but one must ask, "Is it right?"

Martin Luther King, Jr.


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AdamTayler
.375 member


Reged: 22/03/04
Posts: 688
Loc: B.C.
Re: mountain horses [Re: rgp]
      #33881 - 27/06/05 12:26 AM

Richard

Thanks for the info, I did not know such a book existed. What will be interesting is comparing the conformation of breeds a century ago to those of today.

Adam

--------------------
It's the journey, not the destination.


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AdamTayler
.375 member


Reged: 22/03/04
Posts: 688
Loc: B.C.
Re: mountain horses [Re: CptCurl]
      #33882 - 27/06/05 12:31 AM

Curl

Thanks, that would be great.

Adam

--------------------
It's the journey, not the destination.


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AdamTayler
.375 member


Reged: 22/03/04
Posts: 688
Loc: B.C.
Re: mountain horses [Re: WyoJoe]
      #33883 - 27/06/05 12:45 AM

WyoJoe

Thanks for the links. I think a gelding is the best choice as well. I have heard good things about Tennessee Walkers but they are harder to find up here. I like the look of Friessens (kind of like a draft/morgan cross) but they are becoming the new "in" breed so the prices are way out of my reach, especially with supply being low.

Adam

--------------------
It's the journey, not the destination.


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