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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Lee Speed Forum & Archive

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leeenfield
.275 member


Reged: 07/12/11
Posts: 53
Loc: Canada
375 x 2 1/2 NE by Charles Hellis and Sons
      #299723 - 27/04/17 12:04 PM

After years of putting up with my whining and begging, my good friend finally relented and sold me his magnificent .375.

The rifle was made in 1913 by Charles Hellis and Sons, Edgeware Rd, London and sold that same year for the princely sum of 17 pounds 10 shillings.

The rifle is built on a No1 MkIII action and has a number of features that I, in my limited experience, have not seen before.

Here are some pictures and I apologize for the fact that I do not have the presentational skills of our friend Roy.

First, here is a view of the complete rifle


Next a close-up of the butt


The trigger guard


And the magazine


And the safety


Now here is something unusual-- an ivory front sight


The engraving is not of a pattern that I am used to seeing



The shape of the charger base has been re-worked


Although I can't show it, the barrel rib is narrower than I have seen and the matting pattern on the top is different also.

Altogether, this is a very fine rifle that I am very proud to own, and one that is a little unusual, I think


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gryphon
.450 member


Reged: 01/01/03
Posts: 5487
Loc: Sambar ground/Victoria/Austral...
Re: 375 x 2 1/2 NE by Charles Hellis and Sons [Re: leeenfield]
      #299725 - 27/04/17 12:07 PM

There will be some gushing going on with this one..gush!

--------------------
Get off the chair away from the desk and get out in the bush and enjoy life.


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Claydog
.375 member


Reged: 17/08/12
Posts: 934
Loc: Katherine, Northern Territory ...
Re: 375 x 2 1/2 NE by Charles Hellis and Sons [Re: gryphon]
      #299728 - 27/04/17 12:35 PM

That is a cracker. Ticks all the boxes for me. Nice bit of timber too.

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Roy
.300 member


Reged: 06/09/15
Posts: 219
Loc: New Mexico
Re: 375 x 2 1/2 NE by Charles Hellis and Sons [Re: Claydog]
      #299730 - 27/04/17 12:54 PM

Hi Leeenfield,

Gosh, it's a jolly good job I don't know where you live my friend.....:)

That is one beauty.

You said your friend had to put up with years of you whining, well my friend you better get some ear plugs as I'm going to start the process all over again..!

What a corker, photogenic I would say.

Cheers,

Roy

--------------------
My Website: www.wilkinsonfscollection.com

http://wilkinsonfscollection.com/wilkinsonfscollection.com/The_Lee-Speed_Rifle.html


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2152hq
.300 member


Reged: 20/05/12
Posts: 118
Loc: USA
Re: 375 x 2 1/2 NE by Charles Hellis and Sons [Re: Claydog]
      #299731 - 27/04/17 12:58 PM

Very nice!
Isn't that a Long Lee action w/a charger bridge added? as opposed to a No1MkIII action w/a reworked charger bridge.
No manual safety on the left side like a No1MkIII.
My CLLE is set up the same way as this,,no safety except the half cock on the striker but the charger bridge on mine is strictly post 1907 SMLE style. No cosmetic reworking dispite being a commercial offering w/a retailer marking on the bbl.

What ever it is,,it's a beauty of a rifle in a great caliber,,congrats!


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Grenadier
.375 member


Reged: 20/02/08
Posts: 570
Loc: North of the Columbia, USA
Re: 375 x 2 1/2 NE by Charles Hellis and Sons [Re: 2152hq]
      #299749 - 28/04/17 12:51 AM

Fantastic rifle. Now YOUR friends will be whining and begging YOU.

Is it proofed for the 270gr load or the 320gr?

--------------------
~


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93x64mm
.416 member


Reged: 07/12/11
Posts: 3954
Loc: Nth QLD Australia
Re: 375 x 2 1/2 NE by Charles Hellis and Sons [Re: Claydog]
      #299755 - 28/04/17 05:58 AM

Quote:

That is a cracker. Ticks all the boxes for me. Nice bit of timber too.



Not wrong about the timber, certainly a lovely piece of kit
Better watch out for Roy now - he might give you the same treatment you gave your mate!


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Sarg
.400 member


Reged: 20/01/07
Posts: 1365
Loc: Nil
Re: 375 x 2 1/2 NE by Charles Hellis and Sons [Re: 93x64mm]
      #299766 - 28/04/17 09:15 AM

Very nice & unusual all over, doesn't look to have the normal BSA features !

Cool rifle !


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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26413
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 375 x 2 1/2 NE by Charles Hellis and Sons [Re: Sarg]
      #299767 - 28/04/17 09:57 AM

And that's how, uh-huh, uh-huh I like it, uh-huh, uh-uh.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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leeenfield
.275 member


Reged: 07/12/11
Posts: 53
Loc: Canada
Re: 375 x 2 1/2 NE by Charles Hellis and Sons [Re: DarylS]
      #299770 - 28/04/17 10:48 AM

Gentlemen

Thanks to each of you for your kind compliments about the newest occupant of my rifle cabinet. I feel delighted and privileged to have the honour of being this rifle's custodian.

Some observations, comments and questions have been raised and I will try to deal with each of them in turn.

First of all, Roy. You must know that I can be immune to all sorts of whining, begging and blandishments -- at least for a while. You can't have all the good ones, you know. Seriously, keep up the good work with your acquisitions and postings. I always look forward to them, my friend.

2152hg has made some observant comments about the rifle's action. I have learned something new from him. I had previously thought that all CLLE modifications to No1 long Lees had only been to miltary stock. I guess it makes sense that the manufacturers might also modify commercial ones that were in stock or previously sold. As to whether this rifle is built on a CLLE action, I think not. The reason is that it has no slot milled on the right side of the action for a magazine cut-off. All of the Lee N01 factory sporters that I have seen have had the provision for a cut-off. Almost anything is possible, however. I do note that the rivets holding the charger to the body are slightly more visible on this action than on my 1917 No1 MkIII*. You have also spotted that there is no milled cut-out on the left side of the action for the safety of a miltary pattern No1 MkIII. I would point out that neither were the commercial long Lee sporter actions milled in the same place for the long range sight of the military version. So I have to conclude from this that actions destined for factory sporters, whether No1 long Lees or No1 MkIII's were not sujected to all of the machining operations as their military pattern cousins. Another unusual point, that would have been invisible to you, is that this rifle is also not machined for the magazine cut-off. It is my understanding that the No1 MkIIIs all had this provision until the appearance of the No1 MkIII* in 1917. We know, owever, that this rifle was built in 1913. It's questions such as these that make these rifles so fascinating.

Grenadier, this rifle is proofed and stamped the 40/270 gr load. Any shooting I do with it will be with the custom 300gr mold that I had made for my 375-303.

And now on with the investigation, likely never to be completed, about this rifle's journey from Hyde Park, London to the west coast of Canada.


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Sarg
.400 member


Reged: 20/01/07
Posts: 1365
Loc: Nil
Re: 375 x 2 1/2 NE by Charles Hellis and Sons [Re: leeenfield]
      #299771 - 28/04/17 12:04 PM

Yes my 375ex action is not machined for the the mag cut off either, is there a small groove at the back near the bolt handle for where a dust cover would have cliped in ?

Strangely had this & not on others of the later BSA pattern, also very very few of these put together by other makers, very few with just there name added .

Notice the saftey has the BSA PAT but not BSA engraved, as nearly all the others with this safety have ?

Very interesting !


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leeenfield
.275 member


Reged: 07/12/11
Posts: 53
Loc: Canada
Re: 375 x 2 1/2 NE by Charles Hellis and Sons [Re: Sarg]
      #299790 - 29/04/17 08:10 AM

Hi Sarg

Thanks for pointing out to check for the presence of a dust cover groove. It's so obvious I should have thought of it myself. There is no groove on the bolt so this rifle seems even more likely to have been built on a No1 MkIII action.


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Huvius
.416 member


Reged: 04/11/07
Posts: 3518
Loc: Colorado
Re: 375 x 2 1/2 NE by Charles Hellis and Sons [Re: leeenfield]
      #299792 - 29/04/17 08:44 AM

What a lovely rifle!
Makes one wonder why you so rarely see quality rifles built on Enfields today.

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.


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Bidgee
.375 member


Reged: 08/04/15
Posts: 711
Loc: Northern Rivers, NSW
Re: 375 x 2 1/2 NE by Charles Hellis and Sons [Re: Huvius]
      #299818 - 30/04/17 06:02 AM

What a lovely acquisition you have got there leeenfield. Well done!

See nagging does pay off!, "


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Roy
.300 member


Reged: 06/09/15
Posts: 219
Loc: New Mexico
Re: 375 x 2 1/2 NE by Charles Hellis and Sons [Re: Bidgee]
      #299822 - 30/04/17 06:23 AM

Hi Leeenfield,

As much as I'm holding back my rampant jealously, I'm also completely thrilled this wonderful and important rifle is now in your safe hands. None of us can own all these beauties but what's important is that these are saved, cared for and that all of us here who love these rifles can still share and enjoy them.

A magnificent example and one that has been a joy to see here.

Cheerio,

Roy

--------------------
My Website: www.wilkinsonfscollection.com

http://wilkinsonfscollection.com/wilkinsonfscollection.com/The_Lee-Speed_Rifle.html


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philo120
.224 member


Reged: 22/09/14
Posts: 12
Loc: France
Re: 375 x 2 1/2 NE by Charles Hellis and Sons [Re: leeenfield]
      #336767 - 20/01/20 01:37 AM

Good evening,

Funny detail, I just purchased a Lee speed by Charles Hellis originally in 375 nr 2 1/2 rechambered in 303 british, identical to yours and with serial nr 2301!! meaning the one manufactured right after yours 107 years ago..


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93x64mm
.416 member


Reged: 07/12/11
Posts: 3954
Loc: Nth QLD Australia
Re: 375 x 2 1/2 NE by Charles Hellis and Sons [Re: philo120]
      #336776 - 20/01/20 07:20 AM

Would be nice philo120 if we could get some photos of yours to compare the differences?
Remarkable co-incidence being the next one of the rack!


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leeenfield
.275 member


Reged: 07/12/11
Posts: 53
Loc: Canada
Re: 375 x 2 1/2 NE by Charles Hellis and Sons [Re: philo120]
      #338911 - 10/03/20 11:51 AM

Good evening. What a coincidence! Things just get more and more interesting. I would very much like to see some pictures and to know about the history of the rifle. I researched the original sale of my rifle and would be interested to know about yours. I think I can provide you with some contact info. I am also curious about the conversion from 375 to 303.

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