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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Single Shots & Combination Guns

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lancaster
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Posts: 6197
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...
Re: Berger needle fire/Fürst Pless gun [Re: lancaster]
      #323011 - 05/01/19 06:46 AM

https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-f...un_id=101126446




































"Marked W Hanau IN GERA". Very nicely done little gun. 13-1/2" bbl to the breech which opens with a fancy engraved forward facing side lever. The breech area, upper and lower tangs, triggerguard and buttplate are also scroll engraved. Metal is a pleasing soft gray patina coloration. Fancy stock has a schnabel forend, checkered wrist and fancy carved cheekpiece. Delicate rigid sights, bore is approximately 7MM. Most orig lacquer remains on deluxe grade walnut."

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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93x64mm
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Loc: Nth QLD Australia
Re: Berger needle fire/Fürst Pless gun [Re: lancaster]
      #323014 - 05/01/19 08:07 AM

OK Lancaster you've got me beat here!
How does it operate/load etc?????


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lancaster
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Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 6197
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...
Re: Berger needle fire/Fürst Pless gun [Re: 93x64mm]
      #336399 - 10/01/20 05:34 AM

Doersch & V. Baumgarten (probably 9,5 mm) needle fire stalking rilfe












https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/britishmilitariaforums/dreyse-t24852.html

know another one with half stock

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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Daryl_S
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Re: Berger needle fire/Fürst Pless gun [Re: lancaster]
      #336409 - 10/01/20 02:18 PM

Yes- we know how the bolt actioned needle fire guns work, but, how does the rifle of this thread work?
I see no place a needle fire ctg. could be inserted - only a hole in a rotating drum, as if for a round ball or perhaps ball and small powder ctg.
The stock, sights and trigger guard on that needlfire gun are very similar to the model 71 sporter I have.

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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lancaster
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Reged: 06/05/08
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Re: Berger needle fire/Fürst Pless gun [Re: Daryl_S]
      #336416 - 11/01/20 03:38 AM

Daryl, its not easy to visualise the Doersch & von Baumgarten rifle but be aware this is a common bolt action. you release the main spring than open the bolt like any other and load a paper cartridge. before firing you cock the action by hand so its a modern "safety rifle".
another hunting rifle of the same model I know was later rechambered for the 9,5x47R only be rebore the chamber and change the needle against a firing pin.

Doersch was working for Dreyse before he was going to Suhl to become a master gunmaker there and work on his own. iirc, his bolt action design originated from 1859/60.


http://www.littlegun.info/arme%20allemande/artisan%20c%20d/a%20doersch%20et%20baumgarten%20gb.htm

and here








https://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?169793-Needle-Rifles&p=9370707&styleid=7

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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Daryl_S
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Re: Berger needle fire/Fürst Pless gun [Re: lancaster]
      #336417 - 11/01/20 05:08 AM

Tks, but - I was referring to the first one, with the rotating drum. There have been air rifles, like that, with a rotating drum/chamber.

Quote:

"Yes- we know how the bolt actioned needle fire guns work, but, how does the rifle of this thread work?
I see no place a needle fire ctg. could be inserted - only a hole in a rotating drum, as if for a round ball or perhaps ball and small powder ctg."




--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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lancaster
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Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 6197
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...
Re: Berger needle fire/Fürst Pless gun [Re: Daryl_S]
      #336419 - 11/01/20 05:24 AM

yes understand, its a very short chamber shooting a paper cartridge - copy of the Dreyse Lady's rifle

look here http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat....true#Post275004

and you are right some airgun have such a rotating chamber to bring the bullet into the barrel. the early airgun history is not yet writen but one of the Dreyse airguns had exactly this rotating chamber taken from the older needle fire Lady's rifle to load the round ball.


could be this element came over this step into airgun design.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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lancaster
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Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 6197
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...
Re: Berger needle fire/Fürst Pless gun [Re: lancaster]
      #338829 - 09/03/20 01:48 AM

Needlefire S/S shotgun Bastin Freres - Hermalle, calibre 16,











68,5 cm browned twist Damascus barrels, concave rib, ivory bead, toggle link action type Montigny inscribed with maker's name and type, trigger guard in French style, in front of that a manual cocking lever, well grained walnut half-stock in the style of contemporary percussion guns, ramrod, as the action has no means of extracting the self consuming paper cartridges, double triggers, sloping cheekpiece, steel buttplate 35,5 cm, fore-end with wedge fastener, year of manufacture around 1840, right needle broken, early breech loader, a similar gun with the same action type can be seen in the gunmaker's museum of St. Etienne, expertly restored to condition III. https://auctions.springer-vienna.com/en/...;currentpos=255

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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lancaster
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Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 6197
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...
Re: Berger needle fire/Fürst Pless gun [Re: lancaster]
      #338832 - 09/03/20 02:05 AM

looks like the copy of an early Teschner double gun, surprising from france
https://auctions.springer-vienna.com/de/...;currentpos=223







S/S shotgun L. Francois - Paris, 12/65,79 cm barrels of brushed fine rose Damascus, concave rib, inscribed "L. Francois à Paris", bright rounded action engraved with bold foliate scroll, sliding / tilting action type Collath, rotating lever beneath the fore-end, on the right rotating safety on the fence, double triggers, carved horn-finger rest, walnut stock, sloping cheekpiece, steel buttplate 36 cm, sling swivels, year of manufacture about 1890, action and wood to metal fit slightly loose, stock with old repairs, condition III.

... and no, its much older

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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Daryl_S
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Re: Berger needle fire/Fürst Pless gun [Re: lancaster]
      #338844 - 09/03/20 03:41 AM

Amazing guns, these needle rife rifles & shotguns.

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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lancaster
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Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 6197
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...
Re: Berger needle fire/Fürst Pless gun [Re: lancaster]
      #339406 - 26/03/20 06:43 AM

in the next springer's auction https://auctions.springer-vienna.com/en/...;currentpos=224

78 cm barrels of browned twist Damascus, concave rib, inscribed with maker's name, silver inlaid monogram and ribbons on the breech ends, fences inscribed "Martins's Patent", bright rounded action engraved with bold foliate scroll, a red stag on the tang and partridges on the trigger guard, sliding / tilting action similar to Collath, opening lever beneath the fore-end with horn handle, sliding safety in trigger guard, double triggers, horn finger rest (slightly damaged), walnut stock, sloping cheekpiece, behind that a carved falcon in a heart, steel buttplate 35 cm, sling swivels, year of manufacture about 1870, hand cracked on the right near the triggers,
















--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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lancaster
.450 member


Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 6197
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...
Re: Berger needle fire/Fürst Pless gun [Re: lancaster]
      #339635 - 01/04/20 06:02 AM

nice 16 ga Leue&Timpe gun sold by E. Blancke in Naumburg a/ S
https://www.morphyauctions.com/jamesdjul...game-gun-42229/





















--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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lancaster
.450 member


Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 6197
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...
Re: Berger needle fire/Fürst Pless gun [Re: lancaster]
      #339720 - 03/04/20 04:49 AM

copy of a dreyse lady's rifle but with a bolt action, probably suhl made
https://egun.de/market/item.php?id=8238759

























and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HXQHOg_6Xs

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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