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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Mannlicher Discussion forum & Archive

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Hoot
.275 member

Reged: 25/01/17
Posts: 93
Loc: MN

"KAL: 8 NORM"
#335802 - 25/12/19 06:29 AM

Please shed some light on the above marking.

Hopefully, a picture...
[image]https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10216571689065484&set=p.10216571689065484&type=3&theater[/image]

Edit: Well, that didn't work. I no longer have a photo host. The receiver is marked "Made in Germany" "Patent" "Mannlicher" "Schoeneuer" "KAL: 8 NORM"

It reportedly chambers the 8x56MS but we were wondering at the meaning of the marking.

Thanks!

Edited by Hoot (25/12/19 06:32 AM)

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Louis
.375 member

Reged: 13/05/15
Posts: 977
Loc: France

Re: "KAL: 8 NORM" [Re: Hoot]
#335815 - 25/12/19 08:21 PM

The result of Germany and Austria joining forces in 1938 incurred some changes in the way Mannlicher Schoenauer rifles were marked: "Made in Germany" replaced "Made in Austria", the name of MS proprietary calibers was also charged to "6,5 NORM", "8 NORM", etc., and German proof marks were in use from 1940 until 1945. That were all cosmetic changes; your rifle is chambered for the 8x56 MS cartridge.
Louis

--------------------
"Everything that doesn't kill me makes me stronger"

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lancaster
.470 member

Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 9034
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...

Re: "KAL: 8 NORM" [Re: Louis]
#335816 - 25/12/19 09:52 PM

norm must have been "Normal" in this case meaning the common cartridge

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
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bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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Hoot
.275 member

Reged: 25/01/17
Posts: 93
Loc: MN

Re: "KAL: 8 NORM" [Re: lancaster]
#335818 - 26/12/19 01:34 AM

Thank you Gentlemen.

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Rothhammer1
.400 member

Reged: 06/01/17
Posts: 1826
Loc: The Redwoods of California

Re: "KAL: 8 NORM" [Re: Hoot]
#335833 - 26/12/19 09:29 AM

Louis is absolutely correct.

Here is an image of an Anschluss M1903:

Note the "Normalladung" stamp on this box of 9.5X57:

--------------------
Citizen of the Cherokee Nation

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Rothhammer1
.400 member

Reged: 06/01/17
Posts: 1826
Loc: The Redwoods of California

Re: "KAL: 8 NORM" [Re: Hoot]
#335839 - 26/12/19 02:45 PM

Quote:

Please shed some light on the above marking.

Hopefully, a picture...

Edit: Well, that didn't work. I no longer have a photo host.

Thanks!

Try this one... it works and is free of charge: Post Photos to NE

--------------------
Citizen of the Cherokee Nation

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Hoot
.275 member

Reged: 25/01/17
Posts: 93
Loc: MN

Re: "KAL: 8 NORM" [Re: Rothhammer1]
#335854 - 27/12/19 01:53 AM

Thank you Rothhammer. I appreciate your input and will investigate the photo host.

Follow up question: If Google can be trusted, Normalladung translates to 'Normal Charge'. Would this be a cartridge designation/name or a reference to the bullet/powder combination for which the sights are regulated?

Thanks again!

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Rothhammer1
.400 member

Reged: 06/01/17
Posts: 1826
Loc: The Redwoods of California

Re: "KAL: 8 NORM" [Re: Hoot]
#335855 - 27/12/19 02:15 AM

Quote:

a reference to the bullet/powder combination for which the sights are regulated?

Thanks again!

This fella - DWM 528. It's what the M1908 is proofed for and what feeds properly through the Schoenauer Magazine:

Here's a thread (from another 'site) where an Anschluss MS was discussed recently. There have been others posted on NitroExpress in the past: Anschluss

This Thread, from yet another 'site, contains information regarding the Schoenauer magazine and the necessity of proper fitting cartridges to ensure its smooth operation, along with several other references. Again, most / all of this info. is also to be found here on NE: AfricaHunting

--------------------
Citizen of the Cherokee Nation

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Rothhammer1
.400 member

Reged: 06/01/17
Posts: 1826
Loc: The Redwoods of California

Re: "KAL: 8 NORM" [Re: Rothhammer1]
#335860 - 27/12/19 03:30 AM

From the 1939 Stoeger:

In English Measure:

Here is fresh, 8X56 headstamped Qual Cart brass: Midway

If your MS is original and has not been 'rebored', it is an 8X56 MS. If you have any doubt about its originality, you may wish to have a cerrosafe cast made of your chamber to be sure.

Once you've established that, Reed's Ammo of Oklahoma makes excellent reloads Reeds
that will be the proper profile for your 8X56MS Schoenauer magazine. They can be rather particular as to what they're fed.

--------------------
Citizen of the Cherokee Nation

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Hoot
.275 member

Reged: 25/01/17
Posts: 93
Loc: MN

Re: "KAL: 8 NORM" [Re: Rothhammer1]
#335871 - 27/12/19 07:01 AM

Thank you once again Sir.

I omitted part of the story. It's not my M-S, although I'd love to change those circumstances. A friend was asking about the markings on a rifle held by his friend. Neither of us were familiar with the "NORM" designation so I posed it here. His friend shoots 8x56MS out of it and has no doubt about either the bore or chamber. All three of us were just wondering at the meaning of the caliber marking.

Cheers!
Hoot

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Rothhammer1
.400 member

Reged: 06/01/17
Posts: 1826
Loc: The Redwoods of California

Re: "KAL: 8 NORM" [Re: Hoot]
#335885 - 27/12/19 02:41 PM

Quote:

Thank you once again Sir.

I omitted part of the story. It's not my M-S, although I'd love to change those circumstances. A friend was asking about the markings on a rifle held by his friend. Neither of us were familiar with the "NORM" designation so I posed it here. His friend shoots 8x56MS out of it and has no doubt about either the bore or chamber. All three of us were just wondering at the meaning of the caliber marking.

Cheers!
Hoot

I can dig it.

If comparing to other Mannlicher Schoenauers, the other different marking you may notice on the 'Anschluss' MS is this, on the left side of the receiver:

This stamp was used only during the German occupation of Austria, 1938 - 1945.

This is how MS sporting rifles and carbines were marked from 1900 - 1926:

Sometime in 1926, OWGS changed to:

Actions built for the 'Greek' military MS have different stampings altogether, all in 6.5X54MS.

--------------------
Citizen of the Cherokee Nation

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Rothhammer1
.400 member

Reged: 06/01/17
Posts: 1826
Loc: The Redwoods of California

Re: "KAL: 8 NORM" [Re: Hoot]
#335889 - 27/12/19 04:20 PM

Quote:

: Follow up question: If Google can be trusted, Normalladung translates to 'Normal Charge'. Would this be a cartridge designation/name or a reference to the bullet/powder combination for which the sights are regulated?

Here's an excerpt from a previous post wherein noted authority Kuduae (Axel Eichendorff) answered a similar query. Herr Eichendorff is a Saxon forester who really knows his stuff regarding 'classic' Continental firearms (he uses an M1910 on the job):

"From March 13, 1938 to April 1945 Austria was part of Hitler's 3rd Reich,hence the inscriptions "Made in Germany" and "Waffenfabrik Steyr". Of course German rulings were to be followed by Steyr too. The German 1940 proof law required, for the first time, all guns being marked with the cartridge designation instead of model numbers or cryptic bore dimensions. So Steyrcalled their old proprietary 6.5 and 8mm cartridges Normal to tell them apart from the "high velocity" chamberings of the M1925, where they stamped "8x60 Magnum" even in the years before.There ought to be German eagle/N proofmarks and a proof date below the woodline too. "

More for your translator:
municion.org

--------------------
Citizen of the Cherokee Nation

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Hoot
.275 member

Reged: 25/01/17
Posts: 93
Loc: MN

Re: "KAL: 8 NORM" [Re: Rothhammer1]
#335911 - 28/12/19 02:51 AM

Excellent!

Again, many thanks!

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