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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles

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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
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Loc: Montana, USA
458 Winchester magnum....
      #335736 - 23/12/19 05:11 AM

https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/dangerous-game-cartridge-458-winchester-magnum/368767

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ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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DarylS
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Re: 458 Winchester magnum.... [Re: Ripp]
      #335774 - 24/12/19 04:54 AM

Interesting article, but I had no difficulty matching the published "factory" speed level of 2,150fps with 500gr. bullets in my .458 Alaskan, which had virtually the same capacity & used .458 Data from Barnes.

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Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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93x64mm
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Reged: 07/12/11
Posts: 4210
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Re: 458 Winchester magnum.... [Re: DarylS]
      #335775 - 24/12/19 06:50 AM

Must be just for you cousins' across the pond...it won't open here?

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Ash
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Re: 458 Winchester magnum.... [Re: 93x64mm]
      #335776 - 24/12/19 09:49 AM

Works for me.

.458 win mag, a true safari classic IMO!

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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: 458 Winchester magnum.... [Re: Ash]
      #335784 - 24/12/19 06:07 PM

Dangerous-Game Cartridge: .458 Winchester Magnum
Allan Jones - October 18, 2019




Dangerous-Game Cartridge: .458 Winchester Magnum

The American-made .458 Winchester Magnum (left) uses modern propellants and higher pressure to equal the performance of old British standbys like the .470 Nitro Express (right).
Created 63 years ago, the .458 Winchester Magnum is still used worldwide for hunting the most dangerous game because it works.
Prior to 1956, the average American hunter considering a dangerous-game hunt was hard-pressed to find a “born in the USA” cartridge in a production rifle that checked all the boxes. The .375 H&H was popular, but British; the proprietary .378 Weatherby certainly had the energy (over 5,500 ft-lbs at the muzzle), but like the .375 H&H, it was shut out of some hunting areas because some governments banned the use of any rifle under .40 caliber for hunting dangerous game. Missing was a cartridge that reliably functioned in standard American bolt rifles available in the mid-1950s, that produced over 4,500 ft-lbs of muzzle energy with a 500-grain bullet, and that satisfied international game regulations.

Winchester filled the gap in 1956 with the 458 Winchester Magnum. Starting with the H&H basic pattern, the case was shortened to 2.5 inches to work through the Model 70 bolt-action rifle when the bullet was loaded to under 3.34 inches—that’s .30-06 length. The .458 Win. Mag. looks almost too puny to achieve the energy levels needed for an African cartridge, yet it did. How? Pressure, that’s how.

The popular towering British cartridges used for hunting dangerous game were developed for Cordite, a primitive smokeless propellant formed into long thin rods requiring a long case. Cordite always had one dirty little problem: sensitivity to temperature extremes.

Cartridges using Cordite could spike pressures to very undesirable levels in temperatures of 100 degrees Fahrenheit. Thus, cartridges were always factory-loaded at very modest pressures to keep them safe in summer heat. Derived from British proof standards, the .470 Nitro Express (NE) has a maximum average pressure (MAP) assignment on SAAMI equipment of only 41,000 psi. That’s less than the .30-30 Winchester.

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By the time the 458 Winchester Magnum appeared, there were plenty of modern, compact propellants that behaved in extreme temperatures. The .458 Win. Mag. was designed for modern bolt actions, so it has an assigned MAP of 60,000 psi, the same as the .30-06. This enables the compact .458 Win. Mag. to achieve near parity with the “big Brits” in this class like the .450 NE, the .500/450 NE, and the .470 NE.


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There are plenty of excellent factory loads available, and the .458 Win. Mag. is also widely handloaded. For this compact cartridge, the handloader will look to propellants in the middle of the burning rate range as they would for any other straight-walled rifle case. The slow-burners are simply too bulky, reducing velocity potential.



Which mid-rate powder? When we last did .458 Win. Mag. transducer data for 500-grain bullets at Speer, most of the “usual suspects” posted velocities within 40 fps of each other with better-than-average variations in pressure and velocity. Simply use what you have.

Today’s excellent selection of improved dangerous-game bullets has both helped and hurt the .458 Win. Mag. The first homogeneous solids (no lead) from three decades ago were much longer than lead-core FMJ bullets of the same weight and ate into an already limited propellant space. This could drop .458 Win. Mag. muzzle velocities to 1,900 fps or less, compared to roughly 2,090 fps with lead-core bullets. Fortunately, the homogeneous solids have evolved nicely over the last 30 years. They are still longer, but smart engineering allows them to achieve velocities on par with conventional bullets.

Handloaders should plan on using magnum primers with the .458 Win. Mag. Even though the case capacity is not huge, reduced loads have shown a tendency to “click-bang”—a tiny but detectable delay between the firing pin strike and the satisfying “boom” of complete ignition. Think of a flintlock firing. Developing softer-shooting practice loads is not a slam-dunk with this cartridge.



Once I believed this was all about how fast pressure drops when a .45-caliber bullet moves just a little. The .375 H&H has a similar capacity but a smaller bullet. I’ve shot hundreds of reduced-velocity handloads in .375 H&H and never had a click-bang, yet you can create them almost on demand in the 458 Win Mag.

I see something different with the 458 Win Mag chamber that could explain this. The industry chamber drawing for the .458 Win. Mag. shows its throat having zero freebore but a very long leade, the tapered section of throat over which the rifling goes from zero depth to full depth. With few exceptions, total throat lengths in sporting rifle chambers are under 0.300 inch. The .458 Win. Mag. throat is over 1.1 inches, tapering from 0.469 inch to 0.458 inch. Along with the obscure 9.3x62mm cartridge, that is the longest chamber throat in the SAAMI manual by nearly 0.5 inch.

The people I knew suffering the highest occurrence of click-bangs were loading cast bullets that were designed for the .45-70 Government. The .45-70 has a short, abrupt (12 degrees) leade, so its bullets require a step down between the bearing surface and the origin of the nose. Original .458 Win. Mag. factory bullets were not stepped but rather tapered to fit the odd throat, and on firing, encountered rifling resistance early. Stepped bullets have to go farther down the throat before encountering much resistance. That could create a click-bang.



Click-bangs don’t occur with full-power handloads using bullets close to factory weight, so don’t let this put you off. Handloaders can create reduced .458 Win. Mag. loads, but they will take more work. If you are using step-nose cast bullets (most are), try seating long so bullets engage the rifling sooner. You need a firm crimp, so crimp into an exposed lube groove. Also stick with rifle propellants; shotgun and handgun propellants won’t have the bulk you need.

The .458 Win. Mag. is still a viable cartridge, even with the ready availability of more dangerous-game rifles and cartridges than ever before. It’s used wherever in the world dangerous game is hunted because when you compare performance to price, it works.

https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/dangerous-game-cartridge-458-winchester-magnum/368767

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John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: 458 Winchester magnum.... [Re: NitroX]
      #336136 - 04/01/20 11:29 PM

I really like the .458 Win. Mag. and have had a couple. I still have a fine Winchester M70 Classic Safari.

I've shown these before, but here are a couple of targets I shot in the summer of 2018 in preparation for my trip to Australia (NT buff hunt). My loading data and chronograph readout are included.

The first target was shot with a Lyman 4x scope mounted:





The second target was shot with the scope removed, using the factory express sights:




Standard precautions apply to the use of any of my data. This load is safe in my rifle. It might not be safe in yours.

You will notice that the chronograph readout on the second target involved shots 16-20 of a string. Average velocity (M) was 2073 fps. Of the 20 round string, the highest velocity was 2084 fps; the lowest was 2056 fps, for a total spread (T) of 28 fps and standard deviation ($) of 7. That is good ballistics, and you see the accuracy is excellent.

I would trust this rifle and load against the meanest, hungriest, and maddest of beasts.

Curl

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YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
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Re: 458 Winchester magnum.... [Re: CptCurl]
      #336137 - 05/01/20 03:33 AM

Quote:

I really like the .458 Win. Mag. and have had a couple. I still have a fine Winchester M70 Classic Safari.

I've shown these before, but here are a couple of targets I shot in the summer of 2018 in preparation for my trip to Australia (NT buff hunt). My loading data and chronograph readout are included.

The first target was shot with a Lyman 4x scope mounted:





The second target was shot with the scope removed, using the factory express sights:




Standard precautions apply to the use of any of my data. This load is safe in my rifle. It might not be safe in yours.

You will notice that the chronograph readout on the second target involved shots 16-20 of a string. Average velocity (M) was 2073 fps. Of the 20 round string, the highest velocity was 2084 fps; the lowest was 2056 fps, for a total spread (T) of 28 fps and standard deviation ($) of 7. That is good ballistics, and you see the accuracy is excellent.

I would trust this rifle and load against the meanest, hungriest, and maddest of beasts.

Curl




Thank you for posting this..

I as well have a couple .458W's but have not used them much and have never worked up a load for them.. this gives me what I need to start the process..

Appreciate the info.. seems like a great load..

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ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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tinker
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Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: 458 Winchester magnum.... [Re: Ripp]
      #336138 - 05/01/20 04:05 AM

Ripp somewhere I have the data for my 350gr TSX load.
I think I had them going over 2700 fps, loaded very long.
Over 5k ft/lbs at 100yds

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--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...


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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
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Re: 458 Winchester magnum.... [Re: tinker]
      #336140 - 05/01/20 05:15 AM

That's snappy, tinker.

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Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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458ONLY
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Reged: 20/06/08
Posts: 24
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Re: 458 Winchester magnum.... [Re: DarylS]
      #340675 - 03/05/20 08:57 AM

If you check the handloads in Hornady, Barnes, Hodgdon and Accurate, you'll get a better picture of what the .458 is capable of.

Personally, I seat bullets long, but even at SAAMI COL of 3.34" it's easy to get 2150 to 2200 fps from a 24" barrel using newer ball powders such as AA2230 and 2460, as well as H335. Also Australian stick powders promoted as Hodgdon's, they are temp resistant and work excellently, much better that the old IMR powders. H4895 is one for heavy bullets and H4198 works best for 300s and 350s. H322 and Varget do well for lighter and heavier bullets respectively.

My favorites for 450s and 500s are H335, H4895, AA2230 and AA2460.

With bullets seated long, as in the Barnes TSX's, they can be crimped into a groove or cannelure that equals or exceeds the Lott in COL giving identical to better performance with less pressure.

Bob
www.bigbores.ca


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