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TIMBERMAN
.224 member


Reged: 10/10/19
Posts: 11
Loc: Bohuslän, Sweden
360 Nitro Express 2¼ (9,3x57R)
      #335450 - 14/12/19 05:17 PM

Anyone who has some history for the cartridge above ?
When it was created first, year. From which country it was born and when it became obsolete ?
Would be nice to know more about this really cosy caliber. It is totally perfect to shoot with.


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Huvius
.416 member


Reged: 04/11/07
Posts: 2986
Loc: Colorado
Re: 360 Nitro Express 2¼ (9,3x57R) [Re: TIMBERMAN]
      #335460 - 15/12/19 02:16 AM

Welcome to Nitro Express!

The Nitro version was surely a development of the 360 2-1/4" Black Powder Express cartridge which in turn was a development of the paper case 360.
Generally, the BP 360 used 50grs of powder and usually a 155gr to 190gr lead bullet and then the full nitro version used 190gr lead (22gr cordite)up to a 300gr jacketed (30gr cordite) bullet.
Early on, Alexander Henry offered ammunition for his wonderful 360 rifles loaded with round ball and 14grs of black powder which enabled the rifle to genuinely be appropriate for rook and rabbit up to small deer. It looks like Henry started chambering his rifles for this cartridge around 1869.


What type of rifle are you shooting?

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.


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lancaster
.450 member


Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 5850
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...
Re: 360 Nitro Express 2¼ (9,3x57R) [Re: Huvius]
      #335463 - 15/12/19 03:02 AM

probably some husqvarna in 9,3x57R 360
this is the german version of the britisch 360 BPE

http://www.municion.org/360/360CoiledBPE2_25.htm

this startet in 1867 in the time when all this black powder express cartridges were developt 450 BPE, 500 BPE , 577 BPE

all were try by the britisch army to find a new military cartridge what ends with a 577 case necked down to 450 - 577/450 Martiny Henry.
the little 360 BPE 2 1/4" was maybe the very first center fire rifle cartridge with a diameter under 10 mm. to be called BPE it had to fire a 300 grains bullet with a muzzle velocity of 500m/sec.
the cartridge became popular for deer hunting in scotland and make it very quick to europe.

http://www.municion.org/9_3/9_3x57R.htm
this was at least since 1884 made in germany but I would say it can go back before 1880 there


the britisch cartridge was made later also with a drawn brass case http://www.municion.org/360/360Drawn.htm
iirc, the cheaper coiled case was still available as loaded ammo in the 1904 eley catalog maybe because of the price.

to make it simple a german made cartridge should fit into a britisch gun but many german guns dont accept britisch made ammo if the chamber is to precise.

WHY? the german brass case follow the coiled case and is a little bit tapered, the britisch case is conical. try to get a britisch and a german cartridge and load into your gun to see what fits.

I recommend ch4d for a die set

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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HistoricBore
.300 member


Reged: 28/09/11
Posts: 204
Loc: southern England
Re: 360 Nitro Express 2¼ (9,3x57R) [Re: lancaster]
      #335464 - 15/12/19 03:35 AM

I have a simple Jones underlever Birmingham-made double rifle that was retailed in Cork, Ireland and no doubt used for Irish stags.

A neat practice load is to take a standard 30-30 Winchester case and chop off the tapered shoulder and neck. This now looks like a revolver case and can be loaded with 4.0 or 5.0 grains of a medium pistol powder, topped with a .375" round ball pushed inside. This recreates the Rook rifle loading - great fun!

HB


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85lc
.275 member


Reged: 19/01/18
Posts: 87
Loc: Georgia, USA
Re: 360 Nitro Express 2¼ (9,3x57R) [Re: HistoricBore]
      #335472 - 15/12/19 07:28 AM

I believe there are two different head sizes for the various cases based upon the 360 2 1/4" case. I believe the British head size is very slightly larger than the German head size. Cartridges loaded with the German case size could be fired in British rifles but not vice versa.

I understand that both were available in Germany.

I have a 8x57R/360 that requires the smaller head size case.

--------------------
RB


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TIMBERMAN
.224 member


Reged: 10/10/19
Posts: 11
Loc: Bohuslän, Sweden
Re: 360 Nitro Express 2¼ (9,3x57R) [Re: 85lc]
      #335628 - 18/12/19 10:07 PM

Hi and big thank you for welcoming me here.
I actually don't have a gun in this caliber yet, only shot a couple of times with a friends Husqvarna cape gun in it. The best ever fired off.
I have a Westley Richards in .303 now, and a Husqvarna 45-70 single shot Studsare 45 on the way in.
Would be nice to hear more companies that made the guns in this threads caliber than just us the swedes.
Was it at it's time a budget round or how was it ?
No ither common caliber today in production with even the same bullets? The cases can be shortened from 9,3x72R as my friend does when he does not only reload original Rws and S&B cases.
Shot some original blackpowder in it. Nice.
I think he uses smokeless Norma 200 24 gr load and s&b 193 bullet if I remembber right. Any one else who have reloading data for it?
That bullet is the only one to get in stores today suitable for it ? The standard 9,3x62 bullets are too heavy to shoot straight ha ?


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lancaster
.450 member


Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 5850
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...
Re: 360 Nitro Express 2¼ (9,3x57R) [Re: TIMBERMAN]
      #335638 - 19/12/19 03:44 AM

rifles for this cartridge were made in germany and britain probably by any maker one time or the other up to the 1920s when it became obsolete. as a blackpowder round it was relegated by the 9,3x72R in germany in the 1890s because the 9,3x72R hold more powder when loaded with black powder and later with nitro it get a higher velocity with less pressure because of the bigger case volume.
anyway, 9,3x72R brass is a good starting point to make x57R brass.
the bullet for the 9,3x72R is the very best for the 9,3x57R 360 because of its construction.

This is a TESCO ( Teschner-Collath) bullet which was designed to give the lowest pressure( resistance) in the barrel and work best with the velocities you get with this cartridges. you have to slug your barre, if very tight .357 bullets will work.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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