casper50
.400 member
Reged: 18/10/07
Posts: 1538
Loc: Alaska
|
|
Picked up my newest Mauser rifle. Made a chamber cast but haven't found a match to a cartridge yet. For some reason there's no caliber marks on it.
|
DarylS
.700 member
Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27693
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
|
|
Nice find.
What's the calibre?
--------------------
Daryl
"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V
|
casper50
.400 member
Reged: 18/10/07
Posts: 1538
Loc: Alaska
|
|
That's what I'm trying to find out. 8mm but the chamber cast doesn't match the 8x57
|
DarylS
.700 member
Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27693
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
|
|
Is it longer, shorter, fatter, smaller in dia.?
8mm Kurtz, for instance.
Not a lot of different 8mm ctgs. for Mauser rifles, seems to me.
Austro-Hungarian - a rimmed ctg.
Is the bolt face for a standard .469/.470" rim?
--------------------
Daryl
"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V
|
casper50
.400 member
Reged: 18/10/07
Posts: 1538
Loc: Alaska
|
|
A 7x57mm cartridge fits very loosely on the bolt face. Won't stay on by itself.
just ahead of the rim it's .474
length 2.2
at the beginning of the shoulder .438
.360 at the neck
.329 bullet
|
93x64mm
.416 member
Reged: 07/12/11
Posts: 4411
Loc: Nth QLD Australia
|
|
Unusual for sure!
I'd post the dimensions when you cast the chamber, & small part of the rifling - our European cousins will nut it out for you if it is an odd calibre!
|
casper50
.400 member
Reged: 18/10/07
Posts: 1538
Loc: Alaska
|
|
most of the dimensions are above.
|
Ash
.400 member
Reged: 10/05/11
Posts: 1654
Loc: Australia
|
|
Picture of the cast may help also 
--------------------
.
|
4seventy
Sponsor
Reged: 07/05/03
Posts: 2210
Loc: Queensland Australia
|
|
Your chamber dimensions for base, shoulder, and length are, .474" .438" and 2.2".
8x57 case dimensions are .469", .434" and 2.24" which sounds about right to me.
Very nice rifle by the way. 
|
casper50
.400 member
Reged: 18/10/07
Posts: 1538
Loc: Alaska
|
|
last photo is next to a 7x57mm
|
DarylS
.700 member
Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27693
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
|
|
Eye opener. I can now understand your consternation.
--------------------
Daryl
"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V
|
3DogMike
.400 member
Reged: 29/01/15
Posts: 1487
Loc: Western Slope, Colorado USA
|
|
8 x 60 ???
Pretty common alteration after the war.....that way the sporting rifles were not a “military calibre”....?
- Mike
--------------------
"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
- Anon
“Always carry a flask of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore always carry a small snake."
-- W. C. Fields
|
tinker
.416 member
Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
|
|
Without looking at the specifics, my first thought was to suggest a look at the 8x60 cartridge - which is a great cartridge.
--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--
"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...
|
JORGE01
.224 member
Reged: 22/11/11
Posts: 11
Loc: Florida, USA
|
|
I find the dimension very curious, they don’t fit any cartage exactly but here are two (2) other possibilities besides 8x60.
a) 8x56 mannlicher schoenauer see link below:
https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=...;vt=0&eim=1,2,6
b) .318 Westley Richards see link below:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.318_Westley_Richards
I suggest you re measure the casting very carefully, there may be some errors in the measurements.
Hope this helps.
|
4seventy
Sponsor
Reged: 07/05/03
Posts: 2210
Loc: Queensland Australia
|
|
Quote:
last photo is next to a 7x57mm
There's not much point comparing 8x57 to 7x57.
The 8x57 is NOT a necked up 7x57.
When measured from the base to the start of the shoulder, the 7x57 has a shorter measurement, as your photo shows.
Going by the chamber cast and the ruler photo, it still appears to be an 8x57 IMO.
|
lancaster
.470 member
Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 9515
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...
|
|
such a Gewehrfabrik Erfurt rifle should be in 8x57IS , sometimes later changed into 8x60S.
--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians
|
Rothhammer1
.400 member
Reged: 06/01/17
Posts: 1864
Loc: The Redwoods of California
|
|
The cast shows that case to be shorter than an 8X60. The length of 2.2" = 55.88mm.
From the 1939 Stoeger catalog:
Though yours appears to be well 'sporterized', perhaps someone improvised when cleaning up the chamber?
Full text:
--------------------
Citizen of the Cherokee Nation
|
Rothhammer1
.400 member
Reged: 06/01/17
Posts: 1864
Loc: The Redwoods of California
|
|
This may be of interest: NE 102218
Detail:
This may be the closest (though not a direct match) to your chamber cast:
--------------------
Citizen of the Cherokee Nation
|
93x64mm
.416 member
Reged: 07/12/11
Posts: 4411
Loc: Nth QLD Australia
|
|
If I'm reading this info correctly, & I hope I most certainly am!
I'd first try a 8x57JS headspace gauge, if that works with the go gauge & provided that the head diameter isn't too large (try a line of thin sticky tape around a case & see if that goes in easily or not), if it doesn't then then you should be able to fire them.
I guess if it falls in then you may need your chamber reamed with the 8x60mm, or take a turn or two off the barrel & rechamber to 8x57JS?
Best done with the gunsmith this one.
|
casper50
.400 member
Reged: 18/10/07
Posts: 1538
Loc: Alaska
|
|
Anyone have any idea why it wouldn't be caliber marked? I also don't see the correct proofmarks anywhere.
|
kuduae
.400 member
Reged: 13/01/10
Posts: 1806
Loc: middle of Germany
|
|
This rifle was made in 1919 by the former, until November 1918, Royal (Prussian) Rifle Factory Erfurt, renamed Reichswerke Erfurt, RwE. The factory tried to convert to civilian production after the armistice. As Germany was in revolutioary turmoil then, the proofhouse system was out of function. So they used their own established military acceptance personnel for proofing these rifles. In lieu of a civilian proofmark they continued to use the Prussian military eagle mark. Under the conditions of the Versailles "peace treaty", the factory was closed down and dismantled in 1920.
As Lancaster wrote, all those rare "RwE" Mausers were in 8x57 IS originally, though some were rechambered to 8x60S or rebarreled later. Making any 8x57 ammo was prohibited by the Versailles treaty too. As this rifle retains it's original 8 mm barrel, it is either in 8x57 IS or 8x60 S. Forget any other exotic chamberings for cartridges unknown or unavailable in Germany then. When measuring case length from a chamber cast remember: On a M98 Mauser barrel, the rim and extreactor groove of the case protude from the breech end. So you have to add about 3 mm to the distance from the step at the rear of your cast and the case mouth to get the real case length.
|
4seventy
Sponsor
Reged: 07/05/03
Posts: 2210
Loc: Queensland Australia
|
|
Quote:
When measuring case length from a chamber cast remember: On a M98 Mauser barrel, the rim and extreactor groove of the case protude from the breech end. So you have to add about 3 mm to the distance from the step at the rear of your cast and the case mouth to get the real case length.
Ah yes, very good point kuduae.
|
Rothhammer1
.400 member
Reged: 06/01/17
Posts: 1864
Loc: The Redwoods of California
|
|
Quote:
A 7x57mm cartridge fits very loosely on the bolt face. Won't stay on by itself.
just ahead of the rim it's .474
length 2.2
at the beginning of the shoulder .438
.360 at the neck
.329 bullet
From Kuduae's post:
As Lancaster wrote, all those rare "RwE" Mausers were in 8x57 IS originally, though some were rechambered to 8x60S or rebarreled later. Making any 8x57 ammo was prohibited by the Versailles treaty too. As this rifle retains it's original 8 mm barrel, it is either in 8x57 IS or 8x60 S. Forget any other exotic chamberings for cartridges unknown or unavailable in Germany then...
On a M98 Mauser barrel, the rim and extreactor groove of the case protude from the breech end. So you have to add about 3 mm to the distance from the step at the rear of your cast and the case mouth to get the real case length.
Your case length measurement (from cast) was 2.2" (55.88mm). Adding 3mm = 58.88mm.
7.92X57 (8X57) Mauser:
8X60S Mauser:
--------------------
Citizen of the Cherokee Nation
|
Vladymere
.300 member
Reged: 11/08/15
Posts: 187
Loc: North Carolina, USA
|
|
Have you slugged the bore? Do you know for sure that it is an 8 mm bullet? Does not the 855 on the barrel by the witness mark and on the bottom of the receiver indicate the groove diameter or land diameter of the barrel?
Vlad
|
casper50
.400 member
Reged: 18/10/07
Posts: 1538
Loc: Alaska
|
|
I happen to have a MS model 1908 and ammo so I tried to chamber a fired case. It went right in. So I loaded it up with 15 grains of 4198 and dacron with wax to seal the case. Everything measures the same as other cases fired in the MS. Only part that bothers me is the primer backed out about halfway. Any and all advice welcome. I can always ignore it. lol
|
Previous
Index
Next
Threaded
Edit
Reply
Quote
