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It is too bad no one offers a lighter bullet loaded in the win mag. Not necessarily a light load but maybe 400 grain soft nose for the NA hunter. Something other than 500 grain african game loads.

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It is too bad no one offers a lighter bullet loaded in the win mag. Not necessarily a light load but maybe 400 grain soft nose for the NA hunter. Something other than 500 grain african game loads.

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So true!
You notice how many 458 rifles are offered for sale with an almost full box of factory ammo?

I’ve found my Lott to be the most versatile and enjoyable rifle to reload for and I have never loaded anything near factory loads with 500gr bullets. No need for that kind of punishment.

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I have loaded the 350 grain Hornady and the 405 grain Remington bullets in the .458 Mag. with great success, both as to accuracy and ballistics.

Cast bullets are another great source of pleasure.

The .458 Mag. will do a lot of different tricks. It is a great caliber and lots of fun.

But, of course, it really shines as a stomper. Here are a couple of full-stomper targets, with chronograph readouts, I shot last year. The first shot with a Lyman 4x scope; the second with express sights.









These I shot in preparation for my trip to Australia last year. In the end, I didn't take the rifle because of miles of red-tape in Oz.

The bottom chronograph print-out shows the average velocity of the 500 grain bullet at 2073 fps over the full 20 round string. That's real power!

Curl

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RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.

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Back in the early-mid '80's I corresponded with Jack Lott and he offered to build me a .458 Lott for almost nothing. IIRC the total was $300 if I bought a Whitworth rifle in .375 H&H Mag {so he could use the opened action} and paid the shipping to/from. He would swap out the barrel and then load the stock with some lead weight as he considered the Whitworth way too light a gun for the .458 Win or Lott round either one. He also taught me how to bed machine screws in the action to prevent splitting, something new to me at the time. I've done it since and always think of him when I am doing the stock work.

The downside to this story is that I had no real need for the rifle and declined {...chastisement from the audience deserved...} and wound up buying a .375 H&H SAKO Finnbear which I have used since. THAT was no mistake of course and in fact, I shot my elk with it this year. That old gun was worn silver and I had it reblued some years ago and just this year finally switched out the old repaired 4x Leupold for a Leupold 3.5-10. A great tool it has been.

Anyway, Lott sang the praises of the interchangeability of the rounds. I remember no concern ever mentioned about chamber erosion being a consideration in hunting rifles tho it makes sense it could be with a gun shot thousands of times. Also, he seemed to discount changes in zero for close-range open sight hunting. He had nothing but good to say about the Lott round AND the concept; back and forth switching of rounds.

A true POI & accuracy comparison between Lott and Win would be interesting for the guy that cares to have a go at it.

I am STILL searching for the article Lott wrote about a friend of his who lived in Thailand and had both .458 Lott and .458 Win rifle setups for local buffalo hunting, and by that I mean, poaching. My memory is a little fuzzy on the details but I do remember it was a very interesting piece. The fellow had his main rifle set up for heavy loads of Lott while his local Thai friend/tracker had the second gun loaded with .458 Win and heavy cast bullets, done so as factory 500's were simply extremely expensive and very difficult to get in any quantity. Evidently the fellow had a cobbled-together loading setup that included a drill press and seemed to know as much about practical applications of gun lore as Jack...

It was a fascinating article as much for the gun lore as for the fact that it was a cited example of a poacher using something other than an AK, FNFAL or some sewer-tubed old milsurp castaway for his hunting. Quarry by the way as mentioned was indigenous buffalo. I want that article and can't even remember which gun rag printed it, but it was not G&A IIRC. I think more like GUNS. Anyway, the hero of the story there would have been a very early user of the Lott cartridge and somehow I am not entirely certain it was not Jack himself! one has reason to consider the CIA rumours, etc...

"Well, it's like this...I have this friend..."

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Great story..thx for posting..

and YES, you should have let him build the rifle..

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ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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and YES, you should have let him build the rifle..

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...and the first of many well-deserved ass-chewings arrives pretty tactfully....

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What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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These I shot in preparation for my trip to Australia last year. In the end, I didn't take the rifle because of miles of red-tape in Oz.

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Yes it was a great shame Curl did not bring any of the planned rifles. Originally a fine double or two. Then later the .458, less pain if it ran into bureaucratic problems! Didn't bring a rifle at all in the end. Not worth the risk.

Why?

SA and Vic, were no big problems for the visiting man bringing a rifle.

The NT is IMPOSSIBLE. The Police attitude is only persons hunting with someone with an outfitter licence or attending some 'big' target shoot can get a visitors firearms licence.

An NT NE member questions the validity of this police attitude.

But the problem remained of what happens when Curl tried to fly out from Darwin? 99% chance, having SA and Vic firearms licences, and Federal permits etc no problems.But the 1%... In the end regarding the hunting, the Police said , "what we don't know about, we don't know about" !!! ie the bush.

BTW a NT Police Firearms Outfitter licence, DOES NOT EXIST. They merely call another form, probably a corporate licence an "outfitters licence". I even considered trying to get Nitro Express Pty Ltd one of these licences. But needed a property letter for this plus lots of hassles. No way to ask the property owner, she would have told us to go away and not even hunt there if I asked this. As it was that was the last hunt on the place with Curl, as the property owner had another Aussie hunter ffffup during a hunt and cause her problems. And she was re-leasing the place WHILE we were there anyway.

BTW everyone told me how easy it all was in the NT but had never tried it themselves ... or perhaps the visitor like Pappas visited as part of a BGRC National Shoot and hunted after that, or uses an NT registered outfitter.

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BTW the BGRC Internationals will be in Darwin next September 2020, per a thread on NE.

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Good accuracy from your rifle Curl.

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John aka NitroX

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Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

Edited by NitroX (13/11/19 06:26 PM)

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Wow what an ordeal that was.

In all seriousness, I thot getting a hunting rifle in/out of OZ was as easy as clicking heels on the Red Slippers. By was I wrong!

Did something change in the last 10-15 years? A while back and old friend of mine hunted several times for camels and whatever else you guys have roaming around in the middle of nowhere and he didn't have any trouble getting a gun in.

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Different states, different laws.

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John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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Wow what an ordeal that was.

In all seriousness, I thot getting a hunting rifle in/out of OZ was as easy as clicking heels on the Red Slippers. By was I wrong!

Did something change in the last 10-15 years? A while back and old friend of mine hunted several times for camels and whatever else you guys have roaming around in the middle of nowhere and he didn't have any trouble getting a gun in.

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Different states, different laws.

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Very interesting.

I would have thought something like a hunting rifle would be controlled by Federal laws and the local states would have no issues with it. Both Federal import and state local possession laws would apply here also but as far as I know, no state here would restrict a double or a SS or even a bolt rifle being used for legal hunting in that state.

Interesting tidbit of Aussie law there. Every place has its own Spiel on guns, to be sure.

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What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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Wow what an ordeal that was.

In all seriousness, I thot getting a hunting rifle in/out of OZ was as easy as clicking heels on the Red Slippers. By was I wrong!

Did something change in the last 10-15 years? A while back and old friend of mine hunted several times for camels and whatever else you guys have roaming around in the middle of nowhere and he didn't have any trouble getting a gun in.

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Different states, different laws.

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Very interesting.

I would have thought something like a hunting rifle would be controlled by Federal laws and the local states would have no issues with it. Both Federal import and state local possession laws would apply here also but as far as I know, no state here would restrict a double or a SS or even a bolt rifle being used for legal hunting in that state.

Interesting tidbit of Aussie law there. Every place has its own Spiel on guns, to be sure.

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States have authority for firearms laws. But have ceded some auhority via the National Firearms Agreement after 1996 and the gun banner John Howard Prime Minister.

I would NOT want Federal control over all firearms laws. We would end up with the worst parts of state firearms laws over everyone. Also at a Federal level it is another step removed from the citizen.

The NT has liberal firearms laws for its residents. Perhaps the best in Australia. Interstate licensed firearms owners have no problems, as licensed visitors to the state for a period of time, 90 days, have reciprocal rights.

Foreign visitors must comply with state laws they visit. Usually require a licence for the state they arrive in, OR plan to first shoot in. An Internatinal licence or permit granted to a foreignor for a limited period of time. They also need an import permit and an export permit when leaving.

While the Police are usually unsure about it, in theory, if Curl had a Victoria International Permit, he MIGHT be covered for other states as well. The Vic Police told us that. But each state visited must also be consulted. SA Police told me BOTH he didn't need an SA one if he had a Vic Permit, then changed it and said he needed an SA permit as well .... "otherwise how do we know what firearms are in SA?" ..... In SA and maybe (?) Vic a foreign visitor does not need an International to borrow a firearm under a licensed firearms persons supervision. But if you want your own, you need an International Permit.

While NT has excellent laws for citizens, it does NOT have good ones for international visitors bringing in firearms. They are easy about shooters coming to hunt with an NT licensed outfitter. Also for shooters attending a recognised target shooting event, if documentation/letter can be supplied. It is basically IMPOSSIBLE to bring in and even use an Aussie firearm otherwise. Now is this law? The Police say it is. One of our NT members disagrees. But that doesn't help with any legal wrangles if the police decide to act. A court would then decide. Not the best scenario for a foreign guest to have to go through.

I asked the NT police, "So even if I was a property owner, and had foreign guests, I can't even take them out shooting or hunting?" The cop replied, "What happens in the bush we don't know about." BTW he wasn't too bad to deal with. Some NT residents might disagree on the interpretations by the police being made.

Most Aussies have zero knowledge bout this, as most foreign hunters use outfitters by far. Curl was told all sorts of contradictory stuff in Victoria for example. The few who don't use an outfitter probably borrow a firearm, and its all on the quiet. In practice if they have import permits, export permits, a different states int'l firearms permit, probably there would be no problem flying out from Darwin with a firearm. Is it worth the risk of legal problems?

On forums such as this, we can't recommend that of course. Could get the writer in trouble. One of our NE members also warns the US Lacey Act (?) could be used against the US citizen if the wrong thing happened and some a-hole in the US decided to act on it. I guess it could be defined as illegal hunting overseas?

I think the NT laws are due to both the NT police AND outfitters. Perhaps the outfitters wanted a 'closed shop'. Foreign hunters having to use an outfitter? If not, the police may have wanted to restrict firearms brought in to be controlled by licensed outfitters or target clubs? here would have been no one to argue for the independent hunter without an outfitter. Doesn't matter, its how the law is interpreted in the NT.

No problem at all in bringing in a firearm if booking with an outfitter and leaving enough time for the paperwork to be done in advance. Pretty straightforward.

BTW just like in Australia where the average firearms licensee has no real knowledge of international firearms permits, it is the SAME for the USA. The USA is not straight forward for a foreignor to bring in a firearm. And especially if transitting, say to Canada, it is next to impossible to carry a firearm through the USA. Never done it myself, but have heard the stories. If one is not hunting in the USA, have an outfitter to back it up, close to impossible to get an international permit for the USA. Maybe a US citizen providing legal hunting on their land might work as well? Might find out one day for myself.
I imagine attending a target shooting event would also assist in an international US permit. So if transiting the USA say to hunt in Canada, it might be necessary to also do a hunt in the USA somewhere providing documentation. Or attend some shooting event.

Bureaucrats are arseholes everywhere in the world.

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John aka NitroX

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Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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Fishing in BC is OK for foreigners, with the appropriate license, of course, however if hunting, must be a guided hunt with a licensed big game guide.
May shoot small game though, including grouse, I believe.
That, is that a .22 is for.

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What happens in the bush or the forest, stays in the bush or forest, mate.

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John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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