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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles
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UtahShotgunner
.275 member


Reged: 07/01/08
Posts: 53
Loc: PA
Help identifying a .375 cartridge.
      #332534 - 20/09/19 04:08 AM

Have a rifle that came without caliber markings.
Determined bore was .375"

Could see that there was a belt in the chamber so tried a .375 H&H.
Much too long so time for a chamber cast.

What I found was a belted mag with:

.532" belt
2.50" Case Length (Approx.)
.406" Neck Diameter
.494" Shoulder Diameter
.350" Neck length (Approx.)

I can take additional measurements if needed.

It appears to be a shortened, improved H&H.
Searching Cartridges of the World and the internet I cannot find a match.

Is this some obscure cartridge? Known wildcat? Or a one off wildcat?

Any help appreciated!

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27022
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Help identifying a .375 cartridge. [Re: UtahShotgunner]
      #332535 - 20/09/19 04:18 AM

.375/.388 Chatfield Taylor case, ie: .338 (or 7mm Rem mag) necked up, or .458 Mag necked down, by the sounds of it.

Hell of a good ctg. Easiest is to neck up .338 Win. brass.
J.J. Donnelly's "The Handloader's Manual of Cartridge Conversions"
ISBN #'s
cloth bound: 0-88317-138-4
spiral bound: 0-88317-137-6
paperback: 0-88317-136-8


page 465

The only discrepancies are minute:
Neck length listed as .370"
Shoulder dia. .490"
The only data I have at my fingertips is the single Donnelly's load:
62.0gr. IMR4064 - 300gr. @ 2,463fps

This appears a moderately light to moderate load, considering this is an 88gr. water capacity case.

This is the average speed a .375H&H gets with factory Winchester 300gr. ST loads from a 24" to 25" bl., so if it is accurate, it is a very good load, indeed with no real reason to exceed it.

However, the very similar Mike Epstein (I'm sure no related) Magnum, a 2.6" case with 1/10" longer neck of .464" lists loads in excess of 3,000fps with 270gr. bullets & 2,800fps with 300gr. Noslers. barrel is 26" Star Premium 12" twist WW cases (shortened .375H&H)to bet 2.6" length. Due to the longer neck, the actual capacity should be identical to the .375/.338 Chatfield Taylor.

reference:
pages 507 to 510. These loads appear WAY too hot.

Wolf Publishing Wildcat Cartridges Combo Edition 1992
ISBN 1-879356-18-X




--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

Edited by Daryl_S (20/09/19 04:51 AM)

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UtahShotgunner
.275 member


Reged: 07/01/08
Posts: 53
Loc: PA
Re: Help identifying a .375 cartridge. [Re: DarylS]
      #332542 - 20/09/19 06:27 AM

Daryl,

Thank you!
After reading your reply I did a bit of Googling for dimensions.
I believe you have nailed it with the .375 Taylor (and its many other names)

The only one of the parent cases I have on hand are 7mmRM.

After removing the cocking piece and firing pin from the bolt I loaded a round in the magazine.
Fed nicely up under the extractor and into the chamber. Bolt closed properly. (BSA U9 w/ Mauser style claw extractor.)

Then fed two and then three rounds through the rifle.

May fireform a case from the 7mmRM to clarify the case length since chamber casting does not give you the base end.

Thanks again!!

Michael

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27022
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Help identifying a .375 cartridge. [Re: UtahShotgunner]
      #332543 - 20/09/19 07:14 AM

You can neck up 7RemMag brass to work, however it can be a good idea to neck them up to .308 or 8mm to start with, as in intermediate step.
Doing this might be better than trying to fire-form a short mag. case from 7mm up to .375 in one "shot" using a fast handgun or shotshell powder & wad of tissue or wax as some do.
This is possible, but necking them up first will be a much better way of making brass to fit.
I have made my own wildcat .375 brass from .25/06 and .270 Winchester, but using .30/06 or .35 calibre brass is easier.
To do this, you need a couple or 3 expander buttons & a die that will 'hold' them.
This is what I use:


These are the steps used.

basic case - in this instance, a .30/06 case.
Next is necked straight in one pass, using a die with 'necking' button. As noted, if the nose of the expander button is small enough, as on the right hand one that I made, I could neck up .270 cases straight if they were new or once fired only.

After necking straight, I used a .375 Styer FL die, to neck the cases down to hold a .375 bullet with a crush fit on the new shoulder.

Fireformed - used normally 225gr. Hornady or 235gr. Speer bullets - with full power loads. I do not believe in using reduced loads for fireforming as oft times, the cases do not form properly and can end up with excessive headspace (to the shoudler).

Reloaded in formed brass with 270gr. TSX and 300gr. Interbond bullets.



The main reason for necking the brass straight first, then necking to calibre, is to position the shoulder so it is a crush (felt) fit when chambering. This prevents case stretching starting at the web. Once started, they continue.

You should be able to use CH4D "standard" dies for the .375 Chatfield-Taylor - according to the measurements you provided. They do look quite standard.

Normally I do not push this brand of dies, however, their normal run of this chambering will work just fine, I am positive.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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UtahShotgunner
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Reged: 07/01/08
Posts: 53
Loc: PA
Re: Help identifying a .375 cartridge. [Re: DarylS]
      #332547 - 20/09/19 08:19 AM

Daryl,

Thank you for the information.

A friend brought me this rifle. He had purchased it awhile ago as a .375 H&H. Since it was not, it just sat in his gunroom.

He asked me to determine the caliber and then sell it for him. I'll send him a link to this thread and see if he wants to load for it.

My intention with the fireforming is to have a single case to measure overall length. To come up with the 2.5", I held another belted mag next to the chamber cast using the front edge of the belt as a guide. Then used the calipers to go from neck on cast to rim on other case. That was why I had "Approx." in the length.

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27022
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Help identifying a .375 cartridge. [Re: UtahShotgunner]
      #332575 - 21/09/19 02:42 AM

.375 Chatfield/Taylor is a hell of a good ctg.
Wildcats generally do not bring premium prices.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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UtahShotgunner
.275 member


Reged: 07/01/08
Posts: 53
Loc: PA
Re: Help identifying a .375 cartridge. [Re: DarylS]
      #332594 - 22/09/19 01:13 AM

Once I had the name, I have read a good bit about the cartridge.
With dies available I am trying to come up with a use for a .375...

Thank you for all your help.

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27022
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Help identifying a .375 cartridge. [Re: UtahShotgunner]
      #332595 - 22/09/19 02:24 AM

Those out-sized (up to 800 pounds) PA black bears would be perfect for it.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Rule303
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Reged: 05/07/09
Posts: 5068
Loc: Woodford Qld
Re: Help identifying a .375 cartridge. [Re: UtahShotgunner]
      #332607 - 22/09/19 07:15 AM

Quote:

Once I had the name, I have read a good bit about the cartridge.
With dies available I am trying to come up with a use for a .375...

Thank you for all your help.



Mice to Elephants takes your pick.

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27022
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Help identifying a .375 cartridge. [Re: Rule303]
      #332608 - 22/09/19 08:40 AM

I sold my first .375H&H to a fellow who hunted Vancouver Island with his buddies. It was a ZKK602 BRNO. I told him to load 270gr. Winchester Power Points ahead of 69 or 70gr. IMR4064 and CCI 250 primer for those deer.

A year later, he came into the gun shop where I worked and I asked him if he would sell the rifle back to me.

He laughed, then said no, but that all his friends laughed at him for taking "THAT CANNON for deer you'll blow them apart".

He said "I shot the first one right behind the front leg just like you said and didn't damage any meat and I could just about eat right down to the hole."
Now they want my rifle, too.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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