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NitroXAdministrator
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9.3mm - Woodleigh 286 gr vs 320 gr
      #33143 - 16/06/05 12:12 AM

Which bullet is preferable in a 9.3x74 mm Rimmed double - a 320 gr Woodleigh Protected Point or a 286 gr Woodleigh?

I lean towards a 286 gr as I want to match a FMJ to the soft point as well.

Looking for anyone's thoughts.



--------------------
John aka NitroX

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ALAN_MCKENZIE
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Re: 9.3mm - Woodleigh 286 gr vs 320 gr [Re: NitroX]
      #33147 - 16/06/05 12:59 AM

John,probably a good question to put to 500 Nitro as he has had some experience with them
I recently sold a new 9.3 X 74 Merkel model 140.
Beautifully balanced,easy to point and pleasant to carry.
All for around $6200-00 which I recon is good value for a new double rifle..

--------------------
"Dogs always bark at their master"
Sir Seretse Khama.25th June 1949

Edited by ALAN_MCKENZIE (16/06/05 01:22 AM)


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mickey
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Re: 9.3mm - Woodleigh 286 gr vs 320 gr [Re: NitroX]
      #33148 - 16/06/05 01:11 AM

John

Normally the 9.3 would be regulated for the 286. I have fooled around with the 320 in mine with poor results. Too heavy.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: 9.3mm - Woodleigh 286 gr vs 320 gr [Re: mickey]
      #33150 - 16/06/05 01:32 AM

My rifle is a lowly utiliterian Tikka U/O (shock-horror ) so it may be able to be adjusted for whatever load I settle on.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
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"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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mickey
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Re: 9.3mm - Woodleigh 286 gr vs 320 gr [Re: NitroX]
      #33151 - 16/06/05 01:44 AM



--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.


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ALAN_MCKENZIE
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Re: 9.3mm - Woodleigh 286 gr vs 320 gr [Re: NitroX]
      #33152 - 16/06/05 01:45 AM

John,you can send that lowly old tikka over here,I would be happy to put it to work.
Al

--------------------
"Dogs always bark at their master"
Sir Seretse Khama.25th June 1949


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: 9.3mm - Woodleigh 286 gr vs 320 gr [Re: ALAN_MCKENZIE]
      #33154 - 16/06/05 01:49 AM



People have always said "there is madness to his methods".


Alan

I think it might make a nice sambar and bush rifle.



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John aka NitroX

...
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"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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500Nitro
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Re: 9.3mm - Woodleigh 286 gr vs 320 gr [Re: NitroX]
      #33157 - 16/06/05 03:44 AM


NitroX,

Either should work. I know of a couple of 9.3 x 74R's (NOT Tikka's though)
that the owners have regulated with both 286 and 320gn.

286gns will do anything you want in this country.
The 320gn just does it with a bit more authority - heavier weight bullet,
more penetration, heavier hitting.

"I lean towards a 286 gr as I want to match a FMJ to the soft point as well."

The 320gn RN has both a Soft Nose and a solid ?

Personally, I would load up 286 gns and get the gun regulating perfectly
with both SN and Solids to the same POI and then
try to get 320gn working (regulating).

If you need load data, send me an email - and I'll get the loads of the 2 people
who have them.

Hope this helps.

500 Nitro




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luv2safari
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Re: 9.3mm - Woodleigh 286 gr vs 320 gr [Re: NitroX]
      #33164 - 16/06/05 09:11 AM

John,

I shoot both the 286 and 320s in my Tikka 9,3 set. The only problem I have found is that the Valmet system barrels with the full top barrel rib set up tends to make radical changes to the lower barrel during regulation for elevation, while the stiffer upper barrel doesn't move nearly as much.It becomes a problem with the higher impacting 320s.

The solution is to install a high front sight blade and file it in once everything gets as cose as you can get it otherwise.You pretty much need to get the top barrel shooting right, then move the wedge to get the bottom barrel close, both being a bit low with the high front blade installed. Then file the front sight to regulate elevation for both. Trust me; it is the easiest way to regulate for the 320s that I have come up with, and they do shoot higher than the 286s in my two o/u's.

The other solution is to get rid of the crummy Valmet sights and install a good adjustable rear sight and front blade. The problem there is scope mounting, however.

Enjoy the Tikka! I like mine better than many of my "pedigree dogs". They can't be beat for accuracy in a DR!! And...there are all those neat barrel combinations.

Regards,
L2S

--------------------
Hunt with Class and Classics


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Marrakai
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Re: 9.3mm - Woodleigh 286 gr vs 320 gr [Re: luv2safari]
      #33170 - 16/06/05 10:33 AM

Bear in mind that the stirling reputation of the 9.3 x 74 was built on 286-grain bullets, most doubles will be so-regulated, and most barrels will have a twist-rate optimised for that bullet-weight. Geoff initially made the 320-grainers for the British 360 No.2 NE, however the new PPs are a horse of a different colour.

Having said that, there is no reason not to regulate a 9.3 for either the RN or PP 320-grainers, so long as the twist-rate will permit acceptable accuracy.

I am a firm believer in big bullets myself....

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: 9.3mm - Woodleigh 286 gr vs 320 gr [Re: Marrakai]
      #33174 - 16/06/05 12:14 PM

500Nitro

I will send an email for the loads. Thanks.

I think I will try your idea of building up the 286 gr loads first and then attempting 320 's. Last time I looked Woodleigh only made a 320 gr SP but I looked last night and I see he has added a couple more including a FMJ.

In reality what I would like is to build a SP and FMJ load in 286 gr and get a lighter spitzer bullet working instead. For longer range deer hunting, pigs etc. No idea if this will work until I try.


luv2safari

Thanks for the comments. As you are an expert can I ask you the following questions on Tikka's/Valmet's. My rifle is second hand and came as is so no description or "instructions".

1. Which screw on the barrels is for high adjustment for the lower barrel? The RHS or the LHS? Is the other side for lateral movement or ?

2. The Tikka chokes (5) have grooves cut in them for identification from one groove to five. I assume these are : cylinder; improved cylinder; modified; improved modified; and full choke. Which is which? (first time I have a shotgun with exchangable chokes, believe it or not. All my others are fixed.)

I am not a great hands on person so will avoid filing down the front sight as long as possible. I will need a new one if I take a file to it.

But I have fitted a scope (shock-horror ) - a Leupold 1-4x so will mostly use that. I like this Leupold as the 1x setting is almost true to natural sight and allows both eyes to be open and viewing the target very well.

3. Third question. How good, if at all is the Valmet mounts in returning to point of aim? They do not look like they are precision QD mounts at all.

Thanks.

This rifle is almost new and still quite stiff. Even though it is a bit of a clunker I do like it. I bought it sight unseen, in fact never handled a Valmet/Tikka before at all. I have wanted one in 12g/.222 since 1983 and these models were hard to get in Australia, most Tikkas being a cheaper manual cocking version without barrel exchangability. I have never heard of the 9.3mm barrels in Australia only of .308 barrel sets.

I like this rifle so far. It is heavy but I was told they are very heavy and I do not agree with that. How heavy it is after a day in the Victorian mountains may be a different story. But a twin 9.3 would have to be an ideal running sambar rifle.

I will discuss with you the other barrel combinations too as I still need a 12g / .22 centrefire set.

Q4 - do you know of any good QD mounts that fit the barrels, or a good "swing aside" mount ie for a 12 g / .22 centrefire?

Thanks again.

Marrakai,

Will see.


***

Everyone

I haven't received the dies yet, they are still "on the way" so I can't show results this weekend!


--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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Chasseur
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Re: 9.3mm - Woodleigh 286 gr vs 320 gr [Re: NitroX]
      #33179 - 16/06/05 01:32 PM

Nitro,

I am in process of doing some of this right now, but I have not worked out all the kinks.

My Chapuis is regulated for 286gr Woodleighs. At the moment I am working on loads for the 320 Woodleighs and also the 270 Speer spitzers (very cheap here). I have useful loads of both, but not perfect (both are crossing right now). When I work up the loads I'll pass on the recipes if you like.

Great calibre to mess around with.

--------------------
In regards to action he should devote himself to hunting...
-Machiavelli



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500grains
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Re: 9.3mm - Woodleigh 286 gr vs 320 gr [Re: Chasseur]
      #33222 - 17/06/05 12:40 AM

I believe the 320 Woodleighs are designed for the 360 no. 2. In a bolt gun (9.3 x 62) I have wondered if the 320 solids would stabilize enough for use on game, or if a faster twist would be needed than the standard 1-12.

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luv2safari
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Re: 9.3mm - Woodleigh 286 gr vs 320 gr [Re: NitroX]
      #33226 - 17/06/05 01:35 AM

The screw at the wedge between the barrels about midway is for elevation adjustment. Loosen the screw and move the wedge to give more pressure makes the bottom shoot higher and the top to shoot a bit lower. It takes very little adjustment of the wedge to make a big difference in relative elevations. Remember, one goes up while the other goes down with the same adjustment. Lessining the pressure causes the bottom to shoot lower...top higher.

The screw at muzzle end adjusts windage. There will be a factory witness mark right on the end wedge. The adjustment is pretty simple for windage. I have seldom needed to adjust here. Also, the rear sight can be adjusted somewhat for windage by moving the two very small blade pivot screws. BE VERY CAREFUL WHEN DOING THIS!!! THE REAR SIGHT BLADE IS VERY FRAGILE!!! It takes a very small metric allen wrench. Loosen one side counting turns, then tighten the other side counting turns.

The Valmet factory mount returns to zero well, but looks a bit crude. I use an American quarter to tighten it as much as I can finger tight...works OK. I don't know of any other scope mounts for this system.

That Loopy 1X4 is a great scope for the Valmet/Tikka. I have one for my 12/9,3X74R set and love it!!!

I have factory gunsmithing instructions somewhere around here and will get back to you once I find them...send a copy along.

You'll have fun with the Tikka. They DO work, if not with all the esthetics of the snooty looking guns. Mine out shoots my LaJot best quality sidelock.

Regards,
L2S

--------------------
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500Nitro
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Re: 9.3mm - Woodleigh 286 gr vs 320 gr [Re: 500grains]
      #33227 - 17/06/05 01:37 AM


500grains

You are correct - the 320gn RN SN and FMJ Woodleighs are designed for the 360 no. 2.

Re the twist for the 9.3 x 62, my 2 mates who have 9.3 x 62's both have CUSTOM built Mauser
98's so they may well have factored this is when buying the barrel.

500 Nitro


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luv2safari
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Re: 9.3mm - Woodleigh 286 gr vs 320 gr [Re: NitroX]
      #33240 - 17/06/05 04:53 AM

John,

I forgot to answer about the choke tubes. One notch is full, 2=IP Mod, 3= Mod, 4= IC, 5= Skeet, as I measured my set...

Also, I have had excellent luck with the 270gr Speer Hot Core bullets in both regulation, and bullet expansion and weight retention. The Speer Hot Core bullets are a bargain, IMHO, and I use them extensively for thin-skinned animals in medium to lower velocity rounds...even in some of my "hot rods". I don't like the 250gr Nosler Ballistic point bullet; it doesn't regulate readily to use in guns regulated for the 286 gr standard loading. It does well in guns regulated to the 232 gr PPC Norma loading, however. Many Tikka 512s and some Valmet 412s were regulated to the Norma 232 gr loadings in 9,3. My Tikka 512 12/9,3X74R was factory regulated for the 232gr.

L2S

--------------------
Hunt with Class and Classics

Edited by luv2safari (17/06/05 05:20 AM)


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luv2safari
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Re: 9.3mm - Woodleigh 286 gr vs 320 gr [Re: NitroX]
      #33293 - 17/06/05 05:28 PM

John,

I just became aware that EAW now has a QD mount for the 412/512 system. I've not seen one, but I do like their mounts in general. I'll try to find more information and post what I find.

--------------------
Hunt with Class and Classics


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: 9.3mm - Woodleigh 286 gr vs 320 gr [Re: luv2safari]
      #33317 - 18/06/05 04:07 AM

Thanks for the answers. It looks like I will use the 3 and 4 notch tubes as I need the pattern to spread for my standard of shotgunning.

All my other shotguns are modified at best but more likely full and extra full. When I hit a clay they do dust them very well.



--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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Chasseur
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Re: 9.3mm - Woodleigh 286 gr vs 320 gr [Re: 500Nitro]
      #33326 - 18/06/05 09:29 AM

How much of a difference will the rifling make when shooting 320s from a 9.3x74r rather than a 360? Will they not stablize?

I've only tried them on paper at 50yards so far, but with 320s its tempting to try them on larger critters...

Thanks!

--------------------
In regards to action he should devote himself to hunting...
-Machiavelli



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500grains
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Re: 9.3mm - Woodleigh 286 gr vs 320 gr [Re: Chasseur]
      #33362 - 19/06/05 03:23 AM

Chasseur,

Stabilization of a bullet depends on both twist and velocity. Even if the 320's stabilize enough to be accurate on paper, if the twist is not fast enough, they can destabilize inside an animal. I am not saying they will, but since a 9.3 x 74 is built for 286 grain bullets, it is something to consider and experiment with before pinning the success of a hunt on the 320 grain bullets.


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500Nitro
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Re: 9.3mm - Woodleigh 286 gr vs 320 gr [Re: 500grains]
      #33363 - 19/06/05 04:04 AM

chasseur,

If the bullet hasn't stabilized, it will not make a perfect hole in the paper so it is
reasonably easy to tell if it has or not.

I never actually heard of a 9.3 x 74R not stabilizing 320gn (or similar) weight
bullets and 2 friends of mine use them OK on DG.

I think the Barnes X in 458 was one of the bullets that didn't stabilize quick enough
(due to its length) and this caused problems when hunting DG at very close quarters.
I will try to find the reference to this - it is written up somewhere.

500 Nitro


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Chasseur
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Re: 9.3mm - Woodleigh 286 gr vs 320 gr [Re: 500Nitro]
      #33368 - 19/06/05 07:09 AM

Interesting...

Thanks for your information 500grs and 500 nitro, its always amazing how much I learn on this site! I've been more a shotgun guy than a rifle guy so all this stuff about rifling and stabilization is pretty new to me.




--------------------
In regards to action he should devote himself to hunting...
-Machiavelli



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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: 9.3mm - Woodleigh 286 gr vs 320 gr [Re: 500Nitro]
      #33385 - 19/06/05 04:01 PM

500nitro

I believe that is why the 450 gr Barnes X is recommended for the .458 Win Mag and not a 500 gr Barnes X.

I have read the same thing.



--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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atkinson6
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Re: 9.3mm - Woodleigh 286 gr vs 320 gr [Re: NitroX]
      #34168 - 01/07/05 02:13 PM

Definatly use the 286 gr. bullets at the slower velocities of most 9.3s...

The 320s do not work particularly well unless you can step up the MV on them...I shoot them at near 2400 FPS in my rather long throated 9.3x62 with a 26" tube and a warm handload and they work well, but did not do well at all in my 20" barrel at about 2100..


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mickey
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Re: 9.3mm - Woodleigh 286 gr vs 320 gr [Re: atkinson6]
      #34172 - 01/07/05 02:45 PM

the 320s should work great at 2100. They are made for the 360#2 and that is the velocity it uses.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.


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