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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles
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luv2safari
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Re: Next one up from a .375 H&H [Re: Bighammer]
      #33564 - 22/06/05 07:11 AM

416 Rigby...what else?!?

--------------------
Hunt with Class and Classics

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475Guy
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Re: Next one up from a .375 H&H [Re: luv2safari]
      #33566 - 22/06/05 07:26 AM

L2S

Bruce, do you regret not having a 416 Rigby in possession? When're you gonna get another?



--------------------
Lo do they call to me,
They bid me take my place among
them in the Halls of Valhalla,
Where the brave may live forever.

Edited by 475Guy (22/06/05 07:27 AM)

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luv2safari
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Re: Next one up from a .375 H&H [Re: 475Guy]
      #33578 - 22/06/05 01:54 PM

Sam, I miss both my 416 Rigbys. This punny little 375 just isn't adaquate for our tough Swingle Bench, Nevada 'yotes. That Ruger 416 with 350 Speers was just right! I didn't like the 416 Rem; it always felt to me like a boiler ready to explode right in front of my eyes. I'm not a fan of using high pressures to do what lower pressures do quite well.

I know...modern steels/modern guns...bah-blah-blah. When was the last time you heard of something failing due to reduced pressures?

--------------------
Hunt with Class and Classics

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Bighammer
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Re: Next one up from a .375 H&H [Re: Pottsy]
      #33589 - 22/06/05 03:25 PM

Jeez Pottsy, I'll need a bit of time to digest the thought of 650gr and 750gr exiting a 45-70! I might be better off throwing rocks!

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Bighammer
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Re: Next one up from a .375 H&H [Re: Mike_McGuire]
      #33591 - 22/06/05 03:36 PM

Mike378,

I was wondering when the topic of muzzle brakes would arise! I hate the things though I haven't had much experience shooting with them. Muzzle blast probably bothers me more than recoil. I don't mind lugging a 12lb rifle either providing it's balanced.

I wouldn't rebarrel a .416 Rigby. I'd have it or a .45. The .450 does seem like a lot of work for the sake of having a Rigby case and yeah, I wouldn't bother with Bertram. Lots of good stuff to mull over. By the way, this rifle is intended to be unscoped.

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Bighammer
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Re: Next one up from a .375 H&H [Re: 475Guy]
      #33593 - 22/06/05 03:42 PM

475Guy,

I'm with you when it comes to being able to handle the rifle that you bought. No point in only shooting 45-70 loads from a .458. One good light load for smaller beasties generally is plenty. Yes, there's nothing like the satisfaction of being confident and comfortable with a big bore.

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rgp
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Re: Next one up from a .375 H&H [Re: Bighammer]
      #33594 - 22/06/05 03:45 PM

bighammer,

Based on all the responses you've received, It looks as though the ideal step up from a .375 is to purchase a .416 Rigby AND a .458 Lott.

This option is entirely reasonable unless it inflicts excess harm to the bank account.

Regarding rebarrelling to .450 Rigby, if it is a Ruger 77 RSM, rebarrelling will mean tossing out a barrel that is VERY expensive to replace..the quarter rib is machined as a part of the barrel. Reboring or simple rechambering in the same bore size is the only real option there because a custom gunsmith might charge USD $2,000 or $3,000 just to make a barrel with the integral rib.

Richard.

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Bighammer
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Re: Next one up from a .375 H&H [Re: luv2safari]
      #33596 - 22/06/05 03:46 PM

L2S,

The .416 Rigby does seem to be sorely missed by you. Should've kept one!

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Mike_McGuire
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Reged: 11/06/05
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Re: Next one up from a .375 H&H [Re: Bighammer]
      #33598 - 22/06/05 04:00 PM

Bighammer

You can always unscrew the muzzle brake and replace with threaded cap.

A good brake does more than reduce the recoil it make the rifle kind of "just sit there", much more controllable. However, if you are going to be using a rifle without a scope probably some of the adantage of a good brake will be lost.

If you leave out of the equation the "what you want" then the 450/460 Vs 458 Lott will depend on how you use the rifle and how much you like to play with loads and so on.

For example, a 378 or 460 with a good brake is a rifle that you can rest across a sandbag on the car bonnet or the external mirror on the vehichle and use it as you would a 300 mag and unlike the 458 Lott the big ones have the trajectory.

If 2300 with 500 grainers is what you are looking for an analogy might be that the 458 Lott is the 4 cyclinder car and the 450/460 are the big V8 and even if you are in wrong gear it does not matter. To get the 2300 the loading parameters are just so much wider with the 450 or 460 which in turn makes acccuracy an easier thing to achieve. But if the rifle is not going to be scoped then some of those pluses are lost.

Mike

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Bighammer
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Re: Next one up from a .375 H&H [Re: rgp]
      #33600 - 22/06/05 04:07 PM

rgp,

If a combination was on the cards, it'd probably be a .416 Rigby and a .470 NE. Yeah, the integral quarter rib with express sights was a major reason for purchasing my .375 H&H Ruger Magnum.

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Bighammer
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Re: Next one up from a .375 H&H [Re: Mike_McGuire]
      #33603 - 22/06/05 04:23 PM

Keep talking Mike! I need more info from real experience about muzzle brakes. Wouldn't a braked .378 or .460 over a car bonnet bbq the bonnet somewhat?! My PH in Zim was really pissed at some client who left four neat burns on his bonnet. Don't know what the calibre was.

This big capacity necessity is leading me more towards a .416 Rigby. That V8 comparison was a low blow! It brought back memories of an HSV I had a lot of fun with...prior to my getting married!! The only factory rifle I'd pick is the Ruger for the same reason that I picked my .375. The integral quarter rib with express sights. Does anyone other than Rigby chamber rifles for the .450 Rigby Rimless?

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rgp
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Re: Next one up from a .375 H&H [Re: Bighammer]
      #33606 - 22/06/05 04:38 PM

bighammer,

CZ-USA has their Safari rifles on the CZ550 action in .450 Rigby. Same gun is also offered in .404 Jeffery and .505 Gibbs. I think they cost about USD $1600 or so.

Safari Classics - Welcome to SafariClassics.Com by CZ-USA
http://safariclassics.com/

Richard.

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Bighammer
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Re: Next one up from a .375 H&H [Re: rgp]
      #33607 - 22/06/05 04:45 PM

rgp, thanks for that.

The only CZ/Brno that I own is an old Mark I in .22RF. Lovely rifle. I'm going to have to chase its big brother down for a good look.

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Mike_McGuire
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Re: Next one up from a .375 H&H [Re: Bighammer]
      #33609 - 22/06/05 05:12 PM

Bighammer,

I have never had any trouble but they have been, lets us say, rough 4 wheel drives.

You can however get brakes that only blow out the side.

http://www.nearmfg.com/products.htm

Scroll down. These people make good gear and because they are in Canada no export licence is needed.

I have aso used the KDF style brake across an ordinary car bonnet but I have had a blanket on the bonnet and virtually had a bench rest set up on the bonnet.

As Richard has mentioned CZ USA are doing 450 Rigbys. I think you will need to bring those in yourself because Winchester I think would only be dealing with CZ and these are CZ USA rifles. But that won't allow you to have matching Rugers so I would speak to De Vries about rechambering and feeding issues on the Ruger 458 Lott as a first port of call. Also, I am not sure but I think the CZ USA 450 Rigby is quite a light barrel

Let me offer if I may, some advice learned from hard experience. Try and get what you want and avoid being diverted by matters of convenience and within reason, matters of cost.

Mike

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Bighammer
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Re: Next one up from a .375 H&H [Re: Mike_McGuire]
      #33612 - 22/06/05 06:05 PM

Mike,

Thanks for the info. Which, in your opinion, are the best muzzle brakes?

I shall have to compare each project carefully and weigh up the costs after speaking with the relevant people. After all this, ideally what I'd like is a braked (and silenced!) Ruger in .450 Rigby.

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rgp
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Re: Next one up from a .375 H&H [Re: Bighammer]
      #33614 - 22/06/05 06:31 PM

bighammer,

I would think a Ruger 77 in .458 Lott could be easily reachambered to .450 Rigby and the only other alterations required would be to adjust the magazine and file the sights to adjust point of impact.

Richard.

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Mike_McGuire
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Re: Next one up from a .375 H&H [Re: Bighammer]
      #33615 - 22/06/05 06:32 PM

Bighammer,

Wait till next week as a mate of mine is trying a different brake on a 300 Ultra.

I think Bob De Vried also makes brakes.

The KDF type brake whih is the type on Weatherbys are very effective and because the holes are all around the brake fitting them is a little easier. Obviously the brakes that just blow out to the sides are more critical for fitting.

The bigger diamter of the brake the more effective. If look at early Wbys they used what was called the slimline KDF type brake where the brake is the same diameter as the muzzle. The later Wbys uses the same brake but the brake is bigger in diameter than the barrel.

The brake reduces the recoil because:

1) It diverts the gas sideways and

2) The gas physically hits the material of the brake much like the wind on the sail of a boat. Thus a wider brake is like having a bigger sail.

The most effective brakes are the so called clam shell brakes. I will dig a couple of links up for you and post then. The Clam Shell is often seen on the 50 BMGs and tactical type rifles in calibres like 338/378. They are very wide and rather than just divert the gas sidways they direct it backwards, sort of like a jet using referse thrust on landing. On something like a 30/378 these type of brakes almost make the rife go forward on firing.

Mike

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Mike_McGuire
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Re: Next one up from a .375 H&H [Re: Bighammer]
      #33616 - 22/06/05 06:36 PM

Here is a clam shell brake

http://www.jprifles.com/Remington700.html

Part of the idea of these is that recoil is reduced so much that bullet strike can be seen.

This is the KDF type brake Wby use that is larger than the barrel. This is a 30/378

http://www.hallowellco.com/Weatherby-Mk-V-20512-muzzle.jpg

And how they look with a barrel with sights here is a Ryan Breeding 500 Jeffery. I bet you will like this rifle.

http://www.rbbigbores.com/images/20inchm.jpg

Mike

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Pottsy
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Re: Next one up from a .375 H&H [Re: Bighammer]
      #33618 - 22/06/05 06:50 PM

If..! you use a 600 grain Duo Diameter bullet in your single shot rifle part of the bullet lays inside the riflings giving you room in the case for powder.you seat the bullet farther forword.

Soo a 600 grain bullet fired from a single shot 45/70 should give you atleast 1400FPS and a 650 should be around 1320 FPS making a 700 grain bullet in a duo diameter/bore rider come out at about 1100 fps ... while these speeds are on the ( D a r n slow side ) just think of the fun you will have showing off your odd looking loaded rounds to your friends.

And while these also might be slow thay make a heck of a dent in hogs at close range.

And if nothing else you can use them as a pencil to write with there long enough

So what will it be a box of 50 or a box of 1000 lol




A fun bullet in a single shot is a duo diameter spitzed boattial.


Duo Diameter pictured below are 50 cal / .510 diameter



--------------------
Owner PA Bullet's

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AussieMike
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Re: Next one up from a .375 H&H [Re: Mike_McGuire]
      #33625 - 22/06/05 07:54 PM

Mike378,

I've got a European 300Win Mag with a threaded muzzle (OK, I'll 'fess up, it's a Shorty bullpup) and am interested in trying (for the first time) a muzzle brake - any idea where I can buy an appropriate brake in Australia?

mike

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Mike_McGuire
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Re: Next one up from a .375 H&H [Re: AussieMike]
      #33632 - 22/06/05 10:39 PM

mike

The gunsmith Rob De Vries makes brakes. How good they are I have no idea.

Graham Spraggon in Sydney was importing, an as far as I know still does, the Answer brake and fits them.

Alternatively go to Brownells website and they have heaps of different muzzle brakes. However an export licence is required but they organise that as a mate of mine just got a brake from them but it took some time. From memory it was about 4 months or so.


The brake that is often regarded as the best combination of recoil reduction and noise is the Vais. The Vais is used on the Lazzeroni rifles.

The various brakes that only have the holes on the sides as opposed to all the way around the brake will be more expensive to fit because the brake has to line up with the holes pointed out to sides. With the brake with holes evenly spaced all the way around it does not matter.

If you go to the site www.longrangehunting.com and then a few forums down is one for beginners and basics and there is a big muzzle brake thread running there at the moment. I think it is still on the first page.

This place makes good gear and if you scroll down you will see their brakes that have holes is the side. The plus with these people are they are in Canada and no export licence is required. I suspect their brake will be good because you will see a lot of Weatherby type activity and they would be replacing the Wby brake that comes on 30/378 and up because they will supply them already threaded for the Wbys

http://www.nearmfg.com/products.htm

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luv2safari
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Re: Next one up from a .375 H&H [Re: Bighammer]
      #33692 - 23/06/05 02:31 PM

Bighammer,

After shooting the last Northern Nevada High Desert Gray Rhino, I just didn't see the need for a 416...

I did in all honesty use my Rigbys with the Speer 350s to shoot coyotes out by bedroom window...good practice... I kept some reloading components and a set of dies...I guess I NEED to buy a Rigby varmint rifle. I might try a CZ American and clean up the stock...install a barrel band and get rid of the stupid front sling stud right where it will do my left index finger mortal harm. I think that the same engineers who designed Triumph Spitfires are responsible for some of CZ's screw-ups.

--------------------
Hunt with Class and Classics

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475Guy
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Re: Next one up from a .375 H&H [Re: luv2safari]
      #33694 - 23/06/05 02:40 PM

L2S

What you need to do is get another Ruger RSM, but this time, the second generation one. And definitely not the one with the truck axle screwed on the receiver.

BTW, that old Ideeho cowboy's got an enfield 416 Rigby for sale.



--------------------
Lo do they call to me,
They bid me take my place among
them in the Halls of Valhalla,
Where the brave may live forever.

Edited by 475Guy (23/06/05 02:42 PM)

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Bighammer
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Re: Next one up from a .375 H&H [Re: Mike_McGuire]
      #33698 - 23/06/05 03:51 PM

Mike,

I'm heading to Melbourne in a couple of hours and shall look up Bob. I know he's moved so will have to track him down and see what he's up to.

You've been most helpful with all this info. I shall peruse carefully when I get back this weekend. I hate rushing gun stuff!

Talk to you more next week.

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Bighammer
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Re: Next one up from a .375 H&H [Re: Pottsy]
      #33699 - 23/06/05 04:02 PM

The name Pottsy suits you! Just kidding! Mate, this is all new to me and my head is swimming with facts and figures. At the moment, this sounds like a fine way to blow the crap out of a lovely single shot, which, by the way, I haven't got yet! A moot point I know!

So before I order crates of bullets, I'd be happier knowing I had a rifle that could shoot them first!

Ciao.

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