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NitroXAdministrator
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A discussion on switch barrel rifle systems
      #330711 - 30/07/19 11:55 PM

I am interested in having a discussion on switch barrel rifle systems.

I know I often answer such a query myself, but I am especially interested in finding out about any new rifles or systems, and also some of the newer ones eg European I know little about.

But not limited to 'new' ones. Keep the discussion wide and comprehensive.

Doesn't matter if its factory, or custom. Bolt action, single shot, break open action etc.

I do have a particular reason for asking. But nothing within my means at the moment to do. I may mention it later in the thread.

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Postman
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Re: A discussion on switch barrel rifle systems [Re: NitroX]
      #330712 - 31/07/19 12:33 AM

There are many switch barrel rifles out there for those interested in such systems. How do you define a “switch barrel” firearm? Those like the Blaser rifles? Or would you include hinged doubles with multiple barrel sets specifically made for the stocked action?

I can think of several such systems as I am sure others can as well. Blaser, Sako Quad rimfire, to name a couple top of mind.

Advantages? Three main ones:

1. Versatility in selecting purpose built caliber whether it be center fire rifle of a wide range of caliber choice, shotgun, or rimfire all in a single firearm.

2. Avoiding legal hassles and government red tape bullshit surrounding ownership, registration, and quantity of firearms state sanctioned to be owned by the individual.

3. Portability for the travelling hunter.

Disadvantages:

1. Sight in repeatability or lack thereof......Many will need to have the sights adjusted between swaps. Some don’t - Blaser has the market cornered on this with their funky precise and highly expensive but very repeatable accuracy saddle mount system.

2. You never seem to have the right caliber/sighting arrangement mounted for the shot presentation when hunting, e.g. 300 Win Mag required to reach out a touch a distant Elk when you have a .45-70 barrel mounted..... Extreme and probably not a totally realistic example, but it drives this particular point home.

I personally like switch barrels, but I also don’t feel constrained such that they are my first choice in selecting a rifle. One can do an awful lot with a single versatile fixed caliber rifle.... Use a single hammer and get comfortable with the tool.....See the .30-06 thread.

Edited by Postman (31/07/19 03:03 AM)


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DarylS
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Re: A discussion on switch barrel rifle systems [Re: Postman]
      #330717 - 31/07/19 02:49 AM

One of the lads on a small bore forum, has 3 stocked Savage actions.

He has 27 different barrels and chamberings that fit on those actions.
The bolts/actions are:

.222 ctg. bolt face, standard .470" bolt face, and magnum bolt face of .532".

Others have flat-faced Mauser action rings and have incorporated Savage-type locking nut for table-top barrel changes.

I've had 2 barrels for a CZ527 action for many years, chamberings: .17 Ack. Hornet on a CZ bl. that started out as a .17 Rem. and a tight neck .17 Rem. on a Pac-Nor barrel that started out as a .17AckHornet.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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SharpsNitro
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Re: A discussion on switch barrel rifle systems [Re: DarylS]
      #330725 - 31/07/19 09:41 AM

There are lots of options out there, all with heir pluses and minuses. Probably the most versatile is the T/C Encore due to the range of calibers available and the aftermarket barrels. I sold mine a few years ago but now I’m looking to pick up another one and SBR it and run it suppressed, caliber likely 45LC/454C/460S&W.

For a dedicated precision system I love the Desert Technology SRS. I’ve had an A1 for several years now and have barrels/bolts in 243, 308, 6.5SAUM, 264WM and 338LM. It’s a very accurate and rugged system, zero repeatability is within 0.1mil when changing barrels. You just log the zero for each barrel and use offsets in your ballistics calculator, no need to reset the zero on the scope. With the Short Action Customs 5.56 conversions it gets even more useful, still need to pick one up. With the new A2 it becomes a legitimate hunting rifle due to the weight loss. Pair an A2 chassis with a Proof Research barrel and you would have a very accurate, compact rifle with a reasonable weight. Barrels are also a plus, many places can spin one up so you are not stuck with a proprietary system like a Blaser.

Not as easy are some of the PRS action like the Big Horns. The tolerances are tight enough you can buy profit barrels for them so no fitting is required. You do need action and barrel wrenches/vises though. There are also the Savage style nuts, like the Bug Nut, Hat let you run a standard profile barrel. With swappable bolt heads your range of calibers is dictated by action length and bolt diameter.

One of the high end hunting rifle systems I’ve always ogled was the Dakota Arms Traveler. One of these in 338LM and 416R would be a great combination.


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tinker
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Re: A discussion on switch barrel rifle systems [Re: SharpsNitro]
      #330727 - 31/07/19 10:46 AM

The Thompson Center Contender, Encore, and TCR-83/87 rifles are all switch barrel systems.

The Encore is the most versatile, like the Contender it easily goes from pistol to rifle and just any hunting caliber can be accommodated. At the shop we use an Encore as a test rig as custom chambered barrels are very easy to configure and set up with pressure transducers.

We have clients who use Stolle Panda and other high end bench rest actions where they have numerous barrels and bolts for an/each action - and they are very very accurate.

There are aftermarket bolts and bolt heads from Pacific Tool and Gague that help enable the transition of a factory bolt rifle to switch barrel application. The Savage barrel system has been applied to Winchester and Remington actions by many barrel makers (Remage barrel...) make quick work of getting a fellow on track for having a multi-caliber setup.

So many options!

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: A discussion on switch barrel rifle systems [Re: Postman]
      #330730 - 31/07/19 05:13 PM

Thanks for your reply.

Quote:

There are many switch barrel rifles out there for those interested in such systems. How do you define a “switch barrel” firearm? Those like the Blaser rifles? Or would you include hinged doubles with multiple barrel sets specifically made for the stocked action?




The query was answered in the opening post. Open to anything, break open, bolt action, modern bolt actions, single shots, even semi auto, though not an option for me.


Not looking for a philisophical discussion but more comments on the actual systems a person has experience on.

Quote:

2. Avoiding legal hassles and government red tape bullshit surrounding ownership, registration, and quantity of firearms state sanctioned to be owned by the individual.




Yes one advantage is in countries where there is a set minimum of firearms permitted to be owned.

Or in countries where every additional firearms 'calibre' needs bureaucratic permission to be acquired. And possibly justification decided by someone who has no knowledge of firearms. An additional barrel may not require a permit to acquire. As is the case here.


Quote:


Disadvantages:
1. Sight in repeatability or lack thereof......Many will need to have the sights adjusted between swaps. Some don’t - Blaser has the market cornered on this with their funky precise and highly expensive but very repeatable accuracy saddle mount system.




Most worthwhile systems or the use of good QD mounts should fix this problem. And it is one consideration which is worthwhile mentioning if people discuss a specific switch barrel rifle system ie does it need re-sighting in every time a barrel sis switched.

Quote:

2. You never seem to have the right caliber/sighting arrangement mounted for the shot presentation when hunting, e.g. 300 Win Mag required to reach out a touch a distant Elk when you have a .45-70 barrel mounted..... Extreme and probably not a totally realistic example, but it drives this particular point home.




Not really relevant. Not any different to carrying a normal fixed barrel rifle. One is not "switching" barrels in the field.

The sort of nonsense gunwriters write to sell new rifles to unknowledgable consumers that "one must simply have this rifle chambered in this new fangled whizz bang cartridge X to do the job".

For example I have a Mauser M03, in .222, 6.5x65. 8x68S and .404. Obviously if I am hunting smaller game I am using the .222. If I encounter a lovely trophy deer, my loss. Unlikely situation. BTW a .222 in or above the heart will kill any deer, as will a bullet precision shot in the brain. Done it a lot of times, to farmed deer. Would be very hesitant to do it to a wild stag which can run away if poorly shot. But have done so as well to meat animals. If undisturbed. At reasonable range, not a hard shot at all.

If I am hunting water buffalo, or cape buffalo, or elephant or something big, I will have the .404 in the rifle. If I encounter a pig, an antelope or other medium game, I make do with a more than powerful rifle than needed.

If I am hunting deer or feral medium game, it does really matter if I have a 6.5mm or 8mm barrel in place. Make do with what one has.

I also have a Valmet/Tikka set of barrels, Under and over 12 gauge, under and over 9.3x74R double rifle, 12 gauge over 7x65R, and 12 gauge over .223. I will choose the barrel for the purpose, the U/O shotgun for shotgunning, clays, ducks, rabbits whatever. The U/O 9.3mm DR for buffalo, deer or pigs. The combination barrels I still have not used. Finds for scopes or electronic sights have not been available. Hopefully soon. I would use the combination barrels where a shotgun shot or a rifle hot might be needed, rabbits and foxes for the 12g/.223, or eg rabbits an dpigs for the 12 g/7mm. Adds versatility.

For the Mauser M03 or the Valmet/Tikka I have not experienced any problems with needing to sight in every time a barrel is changed. I do like to check though. For the Mauser M03 in .222 I do like to check as I require spot on precision for that rifle. 30mm off is not acceptable. Does not matter much with a .404 or 8mm.



--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


Edited by NitroX (31/07/19 05:51 PM)


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: A discussion on switch barrel rifle systems [Re: DarylS]
      #330731 - 31/07/19 05:31 PM

Quote:

One of the lads on a small bore forum, has 3 stocked Savage actions.

He has 27 different barrels and chamberings that fit on those actions.
The bolts/actions are:

.222 ctg. bolt face, standard .470" bolt face, and magnum bolt face of .532".




A new one for me. Have to look at the Savages. As a uninformed opinion I have always shied away from the Savage brand as my opinion was it was not of good quality or cheaper made. This might be incorrect. And this time the reason I am looking for new ideas is I do want something cheaper if possible. I will look to see what Savage offers.

Quote:

Others have flat-faced Mauser action rings and have incorporated Savage-type locking nut for table-top barrel changes.




This is more like the custom Mauser switch barrels is my guess. Requiring expert gunsmithing.

Quote:

I've had 2 barrels for a CZ527 action for many years, chamberings: .17 Ack. Hornet on a CZ bl. that started out as a .17 Rem. and a tight neck .17 Rem. on a Pac-Nor barrel that started out as a .17AckHornet.




What system was used for this?

Thanks for the post.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: A discussion on switch barrel rifle systems [Re: SharpsNitro]
      #330732 - 31/07/19 05:44 PM

Quote:

T/C Encore




That is one system for sure. But seems to be limited heavily by mainly handgun type cartridges only.

The Thompson rifle, discontinued, per reports suffered from blowing open when hot cartridges were chambered for it.

Quote:

For a dedicated precision system I love the Desert Technology SRS. I’ve had an A1 for several years now and have barrels/bolts in 243, 308, 6.5SAUM, 264WM and 338LM. It’s a very accurate and rugged system, zero repeatability is within 0.1mil when changing barrels. You just log the zero for each barrel and use offsets in your ballistics calculator, no need to reset the zero on the scope. With the Short Action Customs 5.56 conversions it gets even more useful, still need to pick one up. With the new A2 it becomes a legitimate hunting rifle due to the weight loss. Pair an A2 chassis with a Proof Research barrel and you would have a very accurate, compact rifle with a reasonable weight. Barrels are also a plus, many places can spin one up so you are not stuck with a proprietary system like a Blaser.




That is certainly a different one, and actually worth considering for me. One disadvantage might be the appearance. As it looks "military" the idiots might have a problem with it. I've never tested this out myself here, and not sure what the attitudes are.

Worth investigating this system.

Additional barrels are a consideration. Mauser M03 barrels can cost as much or even more than a whole new rifle eg a CZ rifle. And are limited to the proprietory chamberings. Which seem to be more limited now, rather than expanding due to Mausers own policie eg limit more and more what Mauser will offer, instead create new cheapo crap rifle versions, while Blaser brings out more variety.


Quote:

Not as easy are some of the PRS action like the Big Horns. The tolerances are tight enough you can buy profit barrels for them so no fitting is required. You do need action and barrel wrenches/vises though. There are also the Savage style nuts, like the Bug Nut, Hat let you run a standard profile barrel. With swappable bolt heads your range of calibers is dictated by action length and bolt diameter.




will look at the PRS. A new system for me as well.

Quote:

One of the high end hunting rifle systems I’ve always ogled was the Dakota Arms Traveler. One of these in 338LM and 416R would be a great combination.




I thought Dakota stopped making them? Will have a look. I did like the idea of a Dakota years ago, a Mauser 98 sort of rifle, switch barrel factory available. I went for my Mauser M03 as the second hand price was right at the time.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: A discussion on switch barrel rifle systems [Re: tinker]
      #330733 - 31/07/19 05:49 PM

Quote:

The Thompson Center Contender, Encore, and TCR-83/87 rifles are all switch barrel systems.

The Encore is the most versatile, like the Contender it easily goes from pistol to rifle and just any hunting caliber can be accommodated. At the shop we use an Encore as a test rig as custom chambered barrels are very easy to configure and set up with pressure transducers.




Interesting comment.

However I recently read hotter chamberings in the TCR caused the action to pop open on firing. It has since been discontinued.

Interesting comment on the Contender re the swapping to rifle barrels. I thought the Contender only could take mostly handgun cartridges with some rifle cartridges which have similar performance?


Quote:

We have clients who use Stolle Panda and other high end bench rest actions where they have numerous barrels and bolts for an/each action - and they are very very accurate.




I will never be a bench rest shooter however.

Quote:

There are aftermarket bolts and bolt heads from Pacific Tool and Gague that help enable the transition of a factory bolt rifle to switch barrel application. The Savage barrel system has been applied to Winchester and Remington actions by many barrel makers (Remage barrel...) make quick work of getting a fellow on track for having a multi-caliber setup.
So many options!




Very interesting the last paragraph. I have zero knowledge on the Savage barrel system, so much look into it.

Thanks.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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SharpsNitro
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Re: A discussion on switch barrel rifle systems [Re: NitroX]
      #330740 - 01/08/19 12:34 AM

The Encore can handle anything up through the belted magnums, after that the chamber gets too thin. Match Grade Machine and Bullberry are the man aftermarket barrel markers here in the US.

The Desert Tech might be an issue in Australia. I recall there being a concern of them being added to the list of banned guns but don’t know if it ever happened.

Dakota still lists the Traveler, not sure that means you can get one. A number of years ago there seemed to be a glut of them on the used market at good prices (still expensive though). Wish I had the cash at the time for one.


Edit: Found the link to the issue with Desert Tech in Australia, seems NSW specific and not really sure on final status.

http://forum.snipershide.com/threads/australian-nsw-members-read-me.6568533/

Edited by SharpsNitro (01/08/19 03:46 AM)


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DarylS
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Re: A discussion on switch barrel rifle systems [Re: SharpsNitro]
      #330748 - 01/08/19 03:53 AM

Savage barrel nut system incorporated on a Remington 700.




With only about 30 pounds force on the nut, they are easily changed by hand.
Your ammunition is used for setting up the headspace. When the barrel is almost on all the way, a round is chambered and bolt closed.
The barrel is screwed down snug on the ctg. and the lock nut is secured. DONE!

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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SharpsNitro
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Re: A discussion on switch barrel rifle systems [Re: DarylS]
      #330750 - 01/08/19 04:32 AM

Here is what the Bug Nut looks like.

Edit: never mind. Image file link isn’t working.

Edited by SharpsNitro (01/08/19 04:36 AM)


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4seventy
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Re: A discussion on switch barrel rifle systems [Re: NitroX]
      #330752 - 01/08/19 07:09 AM

John, what about the Sauer 202?

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DarylS
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Re: A discussion on switch barrel rifle systems [Re: 4seventy]
      #330756 - 01/08/19 08:46 AM

Images of Savage Barrel nut and wrench.




Available here: Savage and Remington. Anyone with threading ability and a decent lathe can make one as well as threading the barrel to use it.
There are other companies who sell them. This system can be set up on about any action you want, other than actions that have the locking lugs in the barrel itself. That might/would be more difficult.

http://www.gstprecision.ca/product/savage-barrel-nut-chrome-moly/

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: A discussion on switch barrel rifle systems [Re: SharpsNitro]
      #330758 - 01/08/19 09:02 AM

Quote:

The Desert Tech might be an issue in Australia. I recall there being a concern of them being added to the list of banned guns but don’t know if it ever happened.

Edit: Found the link to the issue with Desert Tech in Australia, seems NSW specific and not really sure on final status.

http://forum.snipershide.com/threads/australian-nsw-members-read-me.6568533/




NSW does have appearance laws. I don't believe SA does. Some guys here do use after market modification stocks and kits for various rifles. As for the Desert Tech would have to check.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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