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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles
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msorenso
.224 member


Reged: 02/02/05
Posts: 24
Loc: SOUTH DAKOTA, USA
CZ SAFARI RIFLES???
      #33058 - 14/06/05 10:34 PM

I AM NEW TO CZ SAFARI RIFLES BUT FROM WHAT I READ IT IS NOT GOOD. WHAT HAPPEND? HAS C-Z ALWAYS BEEN LIKE THIS. I EVEN CONSIDERED ONE OF THEIR HIGHER END 505 GIBBS AND 404 JEFFERY LINE, BUT I READ WHERE SOMEONE ORDERED ONE AND HAD PROBLEMS AS WELL.. CAN ANYONE COMMENT?

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Mike_McGuire
.333 member


Reged: 11/06/05
Posts: 348
Loc: Sydney Australia
Re: CZ SAFARI RIFLES??? [Re: msorenso]
      #33061 - 14/06/05 11:17 PM

msorenso

I would say on the forums the CZ has one of the best of "happy owners" of just about all rifles.

I think the trouble rifle you are referring to was a 458 Win or 458 Lott and both of those calibres are bordeline feeders because the chamber is not much bigger then the bullet diameter, a problem with blunt bullets. The round only needs to be slightly off line and the bullet catches the edge of the chamber. Being CRF rifles you only need a rough bolt face or extractor that causes resistance to the case silding under the extractor (which it must do while at an angle) and the round will dip a bit and that is not good for 458 Win or Lott. Incorrect case rim diameter and or extracor groove depth is another potential problem.

404 and 505 are bottle neck calibres so the chamber diameter is quite a big bigger than the bullet diameter.

I would be very happy to buy a CZ in 505 but remember they are still only a an $1850US rifle and would need some checking for reliable feeding. Contrary to popular forum opinions staggered feed in CRF is the hardest to get right. The easiest is push feed from an in line or centre line feed.

But with some checking and any subsequent work I think the CZ 505 is a fine road to take to 505 happiness

Mike

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msorenso
.224 member


Reged: 02/02/05
Posts: 24
Loc: SOUTH DAKOTA, USA
Re: CZ SAFARI RIFLES??? [Re: Mike_McGuire]
      #33062 - 14/06/05 11:28 PM

WHO MAKES THE AMMO FOR 505 AND 404.?

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Plains99
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Reged: 10/11/04
Posts: 225
Loc: Dodge City, Kansas, USA
Re: CZ SAFARI RIFLES??? [Re: msorenso]
      #33064 - 14/06/05 11:54 PM

I have a CZ550 in .458 Lott and have not experienced the feeding problems (with Win Mag or Lott cartridges) but I have had difficulty getting CZ scope rings to hold under the recoil. But for the price of the rifle (Under $1000 in Kansas) it is a heck of a lot of gun for the money. I do think that if anyone buys one for dangerous game they they should get it into the field and do some hunting (and extensive shooting) with it because it well could need some tuning to make it a truly dependable unit. I had an old tang mount safety Ruger 77 which I felt was not nearly the rifle that the CZ is. I handled and shot a Weatherby Dangerous Game rifle in .458 Win Mag and it was a nice unit but it was priced at over double the CZ. And as far as recoil management I felt that the CZ was superior to both the other rifles.

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Mike_McGuire
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Reged: 11/06/05
Posts: 348
Loc: Sydney Australia
Re: CZ SAFARI RIFLES??? [Re: Plains99]
      #33070 - 15/06/05 12:29 AM

Plains99

Some people will get feeding problems with the same rifle and especially with the calibres like 458 Win/Lott. One of the M70s 458s I had would often have trouble with 500 grain Hornadys and 510 Winchester factory ammo but a mate of mine had no trouble. The reason was that I close the bolt much quicker than he does and you get a "bounce" effect and those rounds like 458 Win and Lott with blunt bullets simply can't afford to be too much off line.

Of course loades with Barnes X spitzers solves the problem.

Although I am a Wby fan I agree with you that the CZs are the most bang for the buck.

Mike

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Mike_McGuire
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Reged: 11/06/05
Posts: 348
Loc: Sydney Australia
Re: CZ SAFARI RIFLES??? [Re: msorenso]
      #33075 - 15/06/05 12:41 AM

msorenso

I think the CZ Safaris have been set up around A Square ammo. A Square has had a terrible reputation but with the new owners all is probably well.

Horneber make 505 brass which is supposed to be top quality and Norma make 404 brass.

By the way, if your gun is to have a large "toy factor" in the purhcase I would look strongly at the 450 Rigby. You will be able to make some real accurate and real nice shooting loads using reduced loads with the various 45/70 bullets.

Mike

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Plains99
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Reged: 10/11/04
Posts: 225
Loc: Dodge City, Kansas, USA
Re: CZ SAFARI RIFLES??? [Re: Mike_McGuire]
      #33077 - 15/06/05 01:17 AM

Mike378: Yeah, that's why I think that it is so important to use these rifles in the field rather than just the target range long before going on that big game hunt.... because most of us do handle rifles differently when we're hunting and under pressure to chamber another round. Of course, around here, when I drag out a .458 Lott to go whitetail or elk hunting, guys tend to wonder if I've lost my marbles... but I just don't believe there is any other way to truly learn a rifle if you don't live in big game country. For one thing, I've heard the CZ criticised for it's single set trigger and the remark made that it shouldn't be on a dangerous game rifle. But I've found that I can shoot that first shot dramatically more accurately by using the set trigger and the first shot on a big buff is THE important shot of all of them... so I'm quite happy with the configuration.

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475Guy
.400 member


Reged: 22/08/03
Posts: 1088
Loc: Kali, US
Re: CZ SAFARI RIFLES??? [Re: Mike_McGuire]
      #33087 - 15/06/05 03:22 AM

CZ's problem right now is lousy quality control. They're capitalizing on their new-found popularity and are letting rifles out of the factory just to get them sold. It seems to be a bean-counter thing. I went to my toy store about 2 monts ago and saw about 6-7 CZ's in stock and they all looked like crap. As I was looking, some guy came in and bought a 416 and 458 Lott right there. Two weeks later, he came back and had to send both back to the factory since both had cracked their stocks within the first box of ammo. I had mentioned that CZ's needed to be bedded and the guy blew me off with a few choice words at purchace time and I just looked at him and laughed. Can't tell people nuttin'.



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Plains99
.300 member


Reged: 10/11/04
Posts: 225
Loc: Dodge City, Kansas, USA
Re: CZ SAFARI RIFLES??? [Re: 475Guy]
      #33158 - 16/06/05 05:17 AM

That really is a shame because poor quality control will kill a company's reputation no matter how good the rifle design is. I won't touch a Remington for their product support reputation (rightly or wrongly my impression)and my experiences. What got me interested in the CZ in the first place was its numbers in South Africa carried by people who really did depend upon them for their safety and the safety of people they served. For every other brand of rifle I saw over there, someone else was carrying a CZ... nearly all of them in 375 H&H with open sights and the European stock design.

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: CZ SAFARI RIFLES??? [Re: Plains99]
      #33160 - 16/06/05 06:39 AM

Plains99

The couple of reasons I know people carry the CZ's are:-

1. The old 602's were well built, rugged and could stand up to years of abuse
in the field.

2. They have a larger magazine capacity over some of the other rifles in 375 and up.

500 Nitro

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luv2safari
.400 member


Reged: 09/11/03
Posts: 1401
Loc: United States
Re: CZ SAFARI RIFLES??? [Re: 500Nitro]
      #33165 - 16/06/05 09:19 AM

The 550 I bought in 2000 in 416 Rigby was a good rifle, except for the cracked stock after all of three rounds. The second stock had 200 rounds shot in it with no problems when I traded it off in a deal for a drilling.

There was some good and some bad about CZ... all in all, I liked the gun and took a nice cape buffalo with it.

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