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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: 6.5 Creedmoor vs 308 Winchester Debate Settled [Re: Waidmannsheil]
      #329641 - 25/06/19 07:08 PM

Quote:

Note the text "6.5 cm"


Matt.




OK. Get it.

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Ripp
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Re: 6.5 Creedmoor vs 308 Winchester Debate Settled [Re: DarylS]
      #329647 - 25/06/19 11:52 PM

Quote:

Testing my 6.5x55 Varberger again to day. Dropped the load 1gr. of IMR7828SSC and put 5 Hornady RJN's into .75" at 100 meters.
I'm quite happy with my new "deer" rifle.

The undersized .262" 160's went into 1 1/4|" - still OK out to about 250yards I'd guess.




Groups like that...will be no problem dropping some in the kill zone on moose out past 500 yards..

I am headed to Alaska in a couple days for some King Salmon Fishing on the Nushagak river..one of the best King Salmon fisheries in the world..but when I get back will fire up my 6.5PRC... curious how it will be compared to my 6.5CM... in terms of accuracy, recoil and distance ...

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rscott
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Re: 6.5 Creedmoor vs 308 Winchester Debate Settled [Re: Ripp]
      #329649 - 26/06/19 12:14 AM

"I am headed to Alaska in a couple days for some King Salmon Fishing on the Nushagak river..one of the best King Salmon fisheries in the world..but when I get back will fire up my 6.5PRC... curious how it will be compared to my 6.5CM... in terms of accuracy, recoil and distance ... "


here's a 6.5cm gun.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannone_da_65/17_modello_13

notice the projectile weight. guessing recoil would be unmanageable if shoulder fired!


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DarylS
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Re: 6.5 Creedmoor vs 308 Winchester Debate Settled [Re: rscott]
      #329651 - 26/06/19 01:28 AM

lol - centi-meter or creed-moor? HA! good one

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Daryl


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Rothhammer1
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Re: 6.5 Creedmoor vs 308 Winchester Debate Settled [Re: DarylS]
      #329654 - 26/06/19 02:20 AM

Quote:

lol - centi-meter or creed-moor? HA! good one




Lets see... 6.5 centimeters = 2.559 inches.

Would this do?



'Original British RML 2.5 inch Jointed Mountain Cannon - The Screw Gun' can be yours for just $32,995.00 USD, from IMA:

IMA

Item Description
Original Item: Very Few Available. Antique mountain cannon, fully functional, not de-activated. Finally approved by the U.S. BATF as an unrestricted antique; this is an exceptional, rare and very desirable British Empire "Screw Gun" dated 1902. The Screw Gun was a British development from the 1870’s. An artillery piece was fitted with a two-part barrel that "screwed" together for use. The idea was to make such a substantial weapon transportable by mule train in mountainous regions.

It took a minimum of four mules to carry just the gun and mount. Two mules each to take half of the rifled barrel, one mule to carry the mount and a forth mule to carry the pair of 36" spoke wheels. Additional pack animals were required to transport the ammunition, which consisted of bagged powder and separate studded projectiles with quill-fused primers. There has always been tremendous romance associated with these cannons of the Empire. The English storyteller and poet Rudyard Kipling even penned a lengthy poem dedicated to the Screw Gun. Transport by Freight Collect from IMA Warehouse (our mule caravan).

Every example in our inventory has been expertly cleaned, restored and painted by Curtis Wolf of Ordnance Research who has been involved in the firearms manufacturing field for more than 30 years. His work in restoring antique ordnance is world renowned as being second
to none.
The Ordnance RML 2.5 inch mountain gun is a British rifled muzzle-loading mountain gun of the late 19th century designed to be broken down into four loads for carrying by man or mule. It was intended as a more powerful successor to the RML 7 pounder Mountain Gun. Some writers incorrectly refer to the 2.5 inch gun as a "7 pounder" because it also fired a shell of approximately 7 pounds, but its official nomenclature was 2.5 inch RML.

In 1877 Colonel Frederick Le Mesurier of the Royal Artillery proposed a gun in 2 parts which would be screwed together. The Elswick Ordnance Company made 12 Mk I guns based on his design and they were trialled in Afghanistan in 1879. Trials were successful and Mk II with some internal differences made by the Royal Gun Factory entered service.

The gun was a rifled muzzle-loader. Gun and carriage were designed to be broken down into their basic parts so they could be transported by pack animals (4 mules) or men. The barrel and breech were carried separately, and screwed together for action, hence the name "screw gun".

The gun was used in the Second Boer War (1899–1902) on its standard mountain gun carriage, and also with the Natal Field Battery at Elandslaagte and Diamond Fields Artillery at Kimberley on field carriages which had larger wheels and gave greater mobility.

A major defect in the war was that the gun's cartridges still used gunpowder as a propellant, despite the fact that smokeless cordite had been introduced in 1892. The gunpowder generated a white cloud on firing, and as the gun could only be aimed using direct line of sight, this made the gunners easy targets for Boer marksmen as the gun lacked a shield.

It proved to be ineffectual and outclassed by Boer ordnance and was replaced by the BL 10 pounder Mountain Gun from 1901.

Either 4 or 6 guns (sources appear imprecise) were returned to service from Southern African garrisons in 1916 and were employed by the Nyasaland-Rhodesian Field Force in the campaign in German East Africa. Writers who refer to "7 pounders" in WWI are in fact referring to this 2.5-inch (64 mm) gun.



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Ripp
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Re: 6.5 Creedmoor vs 308 Winchester Debate Settled [Re: DarylS]
      #329668 - 26/06/19 08:38 PM

https://thegunzone.com/6-5-creedmoor-vs-308-winchester/




6.5 Creedmoor vs .308 Winchester

by Norman Turner - Last updated June 25, 2019


When you are looking for a long range rifle caliber, 6.5 Creedmoor and .308 Winchester are both very popular options. Almost every shooter can agree on the quality of both rounds.

However, what are the key differences between the two?

6.5 Creedmoor vs .308 Winchester
Source: huntinggearguy.com

In this article, we will compare the two rounds in terms of ballistics, terminal performance, and cost. Then, we will make some recommendations dependent on what kind of shooting you prefer to do.

A Brief History

Before we get into the comparisons, we will talk about the history of both rounds. As you will see, one of these rounds is new on the scene, while the other is one of the most popular rifle rounds of all time.

.308 Winchester was first developed over 50 years ago. 7.62x51mm NATO, which the military uses in its machine guns, was based off of .308 Winchester. The .308 Winchester round is also used in military and police sniper rifles.

The round is used for way more than just the military though. It is the most widely used big game hunting cartridge all over the world, due to its deadly performance. More on that later.

It also gets a good bit of use in tactical rifles, such as the AR-10. These rifles are commonly used for hunting, home defense, and other tactical uses.

6.5 Creedmoor was introduced just over a decade ago. Hornady created the round for long distance target shooting, but it is getting more and more popular in the hunting and home defense scenes.

In all honesty, the rounds are very similar. 6.5 Creedmoor is extremely similar in size, and is sort of the grandchild of .308 Winchester. The parent cartridge is .30 TC, which was based off of .308 Winchester.

But, what are the differences between the two? Let’s get into it.

Overview: Ballistics, Performance, and Price

.308 Winchester cartridges are 2.8 inches long. The bullets are 7.8 millimeters in diameter, and they weigh around 150 grains. Dependent on the exact cartridge, these projectiles are fired at 3000 feet per second.

308-winchester



6.5 Creedmoor cartridges are 2.825 inches long. The bullets are 6.72 millimeters in diameter, and they weigh in the ballpark of 120 grains. Once again, it is dependent on the exact round, but they are fired around 3010 feet per second.

6.5 Creedmoor



So, what does all of this mean?

The case of a 6.5 Creedmoor is significantly shorter, which means that this round has a longer bullet. This explains why this cartridge has a greater overall length than .308 Winchester. However, these 6.5 Creedmoor bullet are also around 30 grains lighter, despite the fact that they are longer. Putting these two facts together gives you a longer, thinner bullet.

This bullet shape is more aerodynamic, which allows for the bullet to maintain its velocity over a longer distance. At 500 yards, 6.5 Creedmoor is moving around 2078 feet per second, while .308 Winchester has slowed down to 1963 feet per second. For long distance shooting, this is excellent.

6.5-Creedmoor-vs-308-vs-30-06
Source: huntinggearguy.com

But, remember that .308 Winchester deadliness we talked about before? .308 Winchester is one of the most effective big game rifle cartridges in the world. This deadliness comes from the larger bullet diameter and the greater initial energy produced.

The larger bullet diameter allows the round to damage more tissue in the animal. The greater initial energy is a result of the fact that the case is longer in .308 Winchester, meaning that there is more room for propellant.

However, both rounds are excellent choices for hunting, as long as you are using the right ammunition.

Speaking of ammunition, let’s talk about the price of ammunition for both rounds. First things first, keep in mind that Hornady introduced 6.5 Creedmoor. As a result, they are able to produce the ammunition much cheaper than the competition.

When looking at Hornady ammunition, the difference in price between .308 Winchester and 6.5 Creedmoor is practically nonexistent. However, with other brands, .308 Winchester is commonly 10 cents cheaper per round.

Another thing to keep in mind is the fact that .308 Winchester is much older. As a result, there is a much wider selection of ammunition available. Similarly, there are plenty of options for reloading.

Comparison: Pros and Cons

The pros of 6.5 Creedmoor are the increased effective range and accuracy. As we already talked about, 6.5 Creedmoor can travel further due to the shape of the projectile. However, another added pro of this bullet shape is that it isn’t affected much by wind.

Additionally, the weapons that shoot 6.5 Creedmoor are very often precision rifles, since it was originally designed as a long range target round.

The cons of 6.5 Creedmoor are the added cost, and slightly less deadly performance. Both the weapons and the ammunition available in 6.5 Creedmoor are expensive, when compared to similar products in .308 Winchester.

Remember that skinnier projectile like we talked about? This doesn’t perform quite as well within a living target. However, there are hunting rounds available, such as Federal Fusion.

The pros of .308 Winchester are the performance and price. The added bullet diameter damages more tissue, and there is an absolutely huge selection of ammunition available. Most of the ammunition, and the weapons that fire it, are affordably priced.

The cons of .308 Winchester are limited to mostly the range. Don’t get me wrong, .308 Winchester is an excellent cartridge, and it performs well at longer range. But, for the sake of this comparison, it is outperformed by 6.5 Creedmoor.

Recommendations

As tough as it is to do, we give the overall edge to 6.5 Creedmoor. Rest assured that both of these cartridges are really great choices. However, we will make some more specific recommendations.

If you are looking for a precision rifle to shoot competitively with, 6.5 Creedmoor is the best choice for you. Any application that requires high levels of accuracy will call for 6.5 Creedmoor.

If you are hunting within 500 yards, .308 Winchester is a good choice for you. Up to this range, both weapons perform very close to one another. The added deadliness of .308 Winchester make it a slightly better cartridge within this range.

However, once you are shooting out past 500 yards, 6.5 Creedmoor becomes the better option. It drops less, isn’t affected as much by wind, and remains more accurate.

Conclusion

As you can see, both of these short action rifle cartridges are excellent choices. In terms of performance, these are two of the best cartridges out there. When it comes to choosing between them, it can be very difficult.

While we do give a slight edge to 6.5 Creedmoor, we want to reiterate how great .308 Winchester is. Both of these cartridges are truly excellent.

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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3DogMike
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Re: 6.5 Creedmoor vs 308 Winchester Debate Settled [Re: Ripp]
      #329705 - 28/06/19 09:42 AM

Just an observation on the 6.5 Creedmore and the much publicised long range capabilities.
DISCLAIMER: I do not have a 6.5mm anything.....and the only .308 I have is a 7.62mm FAL. My smallest hunting rifle caliber is the good old .30-06

At least amongst my more wild eyed Colorado friends and acquaintances that are totally enamored by the 6.5 Creedmore paired with a ballistic compensating scope as a long range cartridge, there is (to me) a disturbing trend of thought that the cartridge is THE newest hot setup for shooting at Elk size game at 800, 900, 1000 yards.
I wish this were not so; I'm guessing such foolishness and bravado is going to result in more wounded and lost game.

Just my 2 cents....
- Mike

--------------------
"Here's to killing people you don't like with people you do"

"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
- Anon

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Rule303
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Re: 6.5 Creedmoor vs 308 Winchester Debate Settled [Re: 3DogMike]
      #329709 - 28/06/19 05:06 PM


"At least amongst my more wild eyed Colorado friends and acquaintances that are totally enamored by the 6.5 Creedmore paired with a ballistic compensating scope as a long range cartridge, there is (to me) a disturbing trend of thought that the cartridge is THE newest hot setup for shooting at Elk size game at 800, 900, 1000 yards.
I wish this were not so; I'm guessing such foolishness and bravado is going to result in more wounded and lost game."

3 dog Mike I agree


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: 6.5 Creedmoor vs 308 Winchester Debate Settled [Re: Rule303]
      #329710 - 28/06/19 07:36 PM

Quote:

for shooting at Elk size game at 800, 900, 1000 yards.
I wish this were not so; I'm guessing such foolishness and bravado is going to result in more wounded and lost game."

3 dog Mike I agree





For the shooting of any animal at such ranges.

Really such irresponsible practices would not exist if such laws existed as in some countries where a "hunting licence" is cancelled for life if you get certain transgressions, such as wounding game.

Yes we all can wound an animal. the chance of it is very high at such ranges. Irresponsible.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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Rule303
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Re: 6.5 Creedmoor vs 308 Winchester Debate Settled [Re: NitroX]
      #329715 - 29/06/19 10:04 AM

Quote:

Quote:

for shooting at Elk size game at 800, 900, 1000 yards.
I wish this were not so; I'm guessing such foolishness and bravado is going to result in more wounded and lost game."

3 dog Mike I agree





For the shooting of any animal at such ranges.

Really such irresponsible practices would not exist if such laws existed as in some countries where a "hunting licence" is cancelled for life if you get certain transgressions, such as wounding game.

Yes we all can wound an animal. the chance of it is very high at such ranges. Irresponsible.





I do not doubt for one second there are people who are very capable of making these long range shots with good hits most of the time. Yes they can read the wind or do not take the chance if they are unsure of the wind. The big difference to a steel plate at these ranges is, an animal can move. With the time to target an animal can move after the bullet has left the barrel and result in a wounding shot.


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