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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Rifles

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MeLLeR
.224 member


Reged: 04/11/15
Posts: 5
Loc: QLD, Australia
Re: LINSEED OIL GUNSTOCK FINISHING [Re: gryphon]
      #304385 - 23/08/17 12:27 AM

Reviving this thread firstly to thank Gabe for all the effort he has taken to pass this info along, as well as the input from JR. Very valuable and results in more hand scribbled pages being added to my expanding notes on stockmaking info.

Also needed to actually reply to this thread to make it easier to find again for referencing later! Took me a long time with many thread distractions along the way to find the exact link I was looking for this time!!

Gabe, I might even actually bring this current mauser stock it for critiquing asI believe it's my best work to date.

Edited by MeLLeR (23/08/17 12:30 AM)


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Homer
.416 member


Reged: 07/04/09
Posts: 2536
Loc: Canberra, Australia
Re: LINSEED OIL GUNSTOCK FINISHING [Re: MeLLeR]
      #304409 - 23/08/17 06:41 PM

Quote:

Reviving this thread firstly to thank Gabe for all the effort he has taken to pass this info along, as well as the input from JR. Very valuable and results in more hand scribbled pages being added to my expanding notes on stockmaking info.

Also needed to actually reply to this thread to make it easier to find again for referencing later! Took me a long time with many thread distractions along the way to find the exact link I was looking for this time!!

Gabe, I might even actually bring this current mauser stock it for critiquing asI believe it's my best work to date.




+1

Regards
Homer

--------------------
"Beware the Lolly Pop of Mediocrity,
Lick it Once and You Will Suck Forever"


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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 28785
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: LINSEED OIL GUNSTOCK FINISHING [Re: Homer]
      #304419 - 23/08/17 08:25 PM

I must save all the photos to the NE server. I see Gabe DOES have them on photobucket but obviously is paying for an account. Need to be saved just in case though for the future.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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paradox_
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Reged: 12/05/07
Posts: 520
Loc: Australia
Re: LINSEED OIL GUNSTOCK FINISHING [Re: NitroX]
      #304458 - 24/08/17 06:15 PM

Nitro, thank you for that.....how do we find the link to all of gabe hard work please.

Best
Eric

--------------------
Walk softly and carry a big stick


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GABE93
.275 member


Reged: 01/03/17
Posts: 73
Loc: FNQ, AUSTRALIA
Re: LINSEED OIL GUNSTOCK FINISHING [Re: paradox_]
      #304461 - 24/08/17 06:30 PM

Sorry I have not updated this thread for a while. I have been too tired. I did start a bit more rubbing with more amber resin ratio in the linseed mixture but have not continued it for a while now.

This morning I bought some Rustins Danish oil, from a mobile van visiting here for a couple of days. SE QLD Woodworkers Supplies has a van that travels around selling gear. I’ll try the Rustins one day. Other members here mentioned earlier in this thread that it works well for them.

I can also buy locally one of the high quality old style marine spar varnish’s so I intend to also try that mixed with the linseed as it could give a tougher mixture than the amber resin.

Meller, as I have mentioned in the past, show me your work whenever you get the chance. I can’t see enough in the images on your phone to critique it well.

Yes NitroX, I have the images in my PB account and I’m paying for their basic account, I think about $15 or $20 PA. I could not tolerate the adverts intruding in the free account. I noticed lately members having trouble viewing posted images from P Bucket. I can still see the full post here, all the images, using Internet Explorer.

I need however to continue my thread a bit more so that I can test which resin and mixture gives a tougher linseed finish.

I also have not forgotten I promised to post some images of one of my finished rifles. It will take a long time to compose the post.

Regards,
Gabe93


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Rino
.300 member


Reged: 13/01/07
Posts: 101
Loc: Norway/South-Africa
Re: LINSEED OIL GUNSTOCK FINISHING [Re: GABE93]
      #304520 - 26/08/17 10:59 AM

This thread is pure inspiration.
Thanks a million times for sharing your knowledge!

--------------------
Alf Rino Hals


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Juglansregia
.224 member


Reged: 20/04/08
Posts: 40
Loc: Tasmania
Re: LINSEED OIL GUNSTOCK FINISHING [Re: GABE93]
      #329305 - 12/06/19 11:15 AM

I thought I'd revive this old thread with some personal findings.

I tried the Rustins product mentioned above. It took a while to adapt to it, as it dries very quickly making it a little more difficult to rub out than I am used to. In the end I was extremely impressed with the finishes obtained so far as looks are concerned, but ultimately the product was a disappointment for me. I found it water-spots badly. Not as bad as CCL, but badly. It can be touched up, but is not an easy finish to do so. For a safe queen it might be OK, but for folk who actually take a gun or rifle out in the rain I can only foresee great angst using this product.

Note, if the Rustins finish gets wet and is wiped down continually, it won't water-spot. If a rain droplet sits on there for say 15-30 mins, it'll often water spot. Continually having to wipe down a stock is just not practical. I tried two cans, two different production batches, same results. I tried the finish on the sides of 4 dozen walnut blanks sanded to 400 grit, and two finished stocks. All watermarked, despite an evolution of finishing techniques with the stuff.

On another note, I found Rustins slightly kills the colours and life in contrasting walnut, but not as badly as some finishes.

You have to be careful......In the past I tried Liberon Superior Danish Oil and found it sometimes blackened with UV exposure. That stuff is not cheap......wound up looking like sump oil. It also tends to darken the wood unduly even if it doesn't turn it a sump oil colour.


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Igorrock
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Reged: 01/03/07
Posts: 1457
Loc: Finland
Re: LINSEED OIL GUNSTOCK FINISHING [Re: Juglansregia]
      #329321 - 13/06/19 04:10 AM

It´s interesting to read yours comments of Rustins' Danish Oil. I have used it more than a decade with all my gun stocks without any problem. With my impegrate system I don´t rub away any oil but just add a new thin layer untill the surface has dried thoroughly and looks like it has been lacquered. Normaly it takes several weeks, often more than one month. I have used my rifles in whole rainy day without any problem. Rustins´seems to have several different oil products but I have used this:



--------------------
http://promaakari.wordpress.com/


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Juglansregia
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Reged: 20/04/08
Posts: 40
Loc: Tasmania
Re: LINSEED OIL GUNSTOCK FINISHING [Re: Igorrock]
      #329334 - 13/06/19 09:54 AM

Igorrock,

Thanks for your response. I was surprised also, at the water-spotting. I thought perhaps I got a bad batch, so tried another tin of it, same results.

After pore filling, to build up the final finish I was hand rubbing Rustins with lint-free fine quality cotton dress shirt material stretched over my index finger. I wore a neoprene glove which has never affected any other finish, the ones I use are fairly resistant to most solvents. I tried other methods but this worked best for me. This finish being very thin, and setting up quickly, the only real option for me was to rub out small amounts in sections until an even, very thin coat is obtained - barely a coat, and it must be accomplished before it tacks too much. In summer in the climate I live in, I can re-coat Rustins every 18-24hrs, once humidity rises I must use a drying cabinet. I found it took 10+ coats to build a nice finish with a very fine skin "on the wood". I can also make comment that the product has poor penetration into the wood - but this is true of most finishes. So really, a fine skin is needed for any realistic protection. The trick is getting a finish that is actually a thin film/skin, but still looks "in the wood". I initially tried a heavier coating method, and got very poor results. For me I found Rustins needed very little finish applied, and had to be rubbed out just right.

It is a very, very nice looking finish, but in my experience a poor performer in rain. Perhaps waxing the stock would prevent this problem, but I want the finish to be able to stand alone. I cannot explain our very different results, except to say it doesn't surprise me. I've noticed different people sometimes get very different results with the same stock finish, and while it ought not to affect a products performance in the rain, I suppose it's possible variation in application technique can do just that.

I've tried a lot of different snake oils, and for me the best have been ones I've developed myself from old recipes. Of the store bought stuff, Minwax has been the best for me, by far - but I haven't tried them all. Easy to apply, easy to get a good finish, film hardness and abrasion resistance superb, finish colour good, except for the matte finish type. Now not available in Oz. I can also relate that Rustins is easier to mark/scratch than any of the Minwax products I've used, but then Rustins is also harder than some others.

I suppose the best plan is for each person to try several products, understand the MSDS, and use what works best for them.


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Igorrock
.400 member


Reged: 01/03/07
Posts: 1457
Loc: Finland
Re: LINSEED OIL GUNSTOCK FINISHING [Re: Juglansregia]
      #329338 - 13/06/19 05:29 PM

Quote:

So really, a fine skin is needed for any realistic protection. The trick is getting a finish that is actually a thin film/skin, but still looks "in the wood". I initially tried a heavier coating method, and got very poor results. For me I found Rustins needed very little finish applied, and had to be rubbed out just right.



It seems that you do just opposite way like I do. This heavier coats method needs, as I soon wrote, much time and patience. With that method ready surface looks like made by varnish but it´s not slippery in any way. If wood is very dense, you could just dilute oil for first two coatings.

--------------------
http://promaakari.wordpress.com/


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BillG500
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Reged: 16/10/14
Posts: 113
Loc: Australia
Re: LINSEED OIL GUNSTOCK FINISHING [Re: Igorrock]
      #329367 - 14/06/19 09:45 AM

Cheers for bringing this back up Gordon, it a good read.

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Juglansregia
.224 member


Reged: 20/04/08
Posts: 40
Loc: Tasmania
Re: LINSEED OIL GUNSTOCK FINISHING [Re: Igorrock]
      #329368 - 14/06/19 10:27 AM

I initially sealed with Rustins DO thinned 20% with white spirit before filling pores using RDO, slopped on inside and out liberally and for a long time. After this was dry enough pore filling was accomplished by wet sanding and adding some gloop Mr Waghorn gave me years ago (rottenstone is commonly used). Surface when dry then cut back almost to bare wood and finish coats applied as per my previous post. Penetration into the wood, typical of this kind of finish, is actually pretty poor. The finish tacks and hardens in good walnut before any meaningful penetration occurs. I suppose if a stock is made from soft, porous (shitful) walnut then penetration will be more impressive. I prefer good stock wood however. I reckon from experience, if you want one of these finishes to penetrate deeply, try vac bagging or soaking the stock in a pressure vessel under a partial vaccum to suck the finish in before it starts to harden. If you doubt this, scrape back your finish and see just how quickly raw wood appears. If the finish or sealer is thinner and hardens slowly, then of course it'll penetrate a bit deeper. Or use a compatible oil that dries very slowly as a base coat to nourish the wood, provided the pore filling and finish coats will harden and bond with it.

I suppose, at the end of the day, I'm just not a fan of thick, built up coatings on stocks no matter how nicely done they are. IMO for a built up film finish, for me Tru Oil is far easier to apply than Rustins, and a bit tougher. In the context of this thread, which was supposed to be about traditional Linseed stock finishes, Rustins is about as much an "oil" finish as Tru Oil. Applied in thicker coatings, it looks almost identical to Tru Oil. Pretty garish unless get back.

If you looks at the Rustins site under Our Products, they make a clear distinction between Indoor Wood Finishes and Outdoor Wood Finishes that they offer. Rustins Danish oil is clearly listed as an indoor product, not an outdoor one. Whilst the advertising blurb lists that the product can be used on outdoor woodwork, I think the manufacturers classification speaks volumes. If it truly held up to outdoor use, they'd be promoting it e.g. for wooden boat use. Rustins Product Data Sheet also states nothing at all about exterior woodwork compatibility, only indoor use. That ought to tell folk something. As far as goodies in the brew, RDO Info and SDS sheet states it has some vegetable oil in it, mainly Tung oil, but it is modified with synthetic resins and driers (looks like cobalt driers), 44.170% petroleum based thinners with a dash of MEK for good measure.

Like most of it's brethren of Scandinavian, Teak, Danish etc "oils"........there is some oil in there somewhere, but essentially they are "modern synthetic varnishes" of one type or another. Alkyd, phenolic, urethane etc.

Decades-old technology: when a natural vegetable oil is heated with a chosen synthetic resin (eg alkyd, urethane, phenolic) the oil and synthetic resins combine to produce a new product. Essentially, modern varnishes. These ratios are manipulated by industrial chemists to vary the performance of the varnish. Typically "long oil" varnishes have 50-100 gallons of oil for every 100 pounds of synthetic resin mixed with it. These are the greatest oil content. Medium oil varnishes have 12-40 gallons of oil per 100 lb resin, and short oil varnishes less again. Spar varnishes are long oil varnishes, without added driers they are very slow to dry but are flexible, although fairly soft. The resin used is important, particularly for outdoor use. Oils used also affect appearance and performance. The "varnish" is then thinned, most often with petrochemical thinners, and often metallic driers are used so the brew hardens in a timely fashion. Nearly all of the commercially available "oil" finishes fall into this category. The huge VOC content of these finish types is becoming an increasing problem with various govt regulations for such.

http://antiquerestorers.com/Articles/SAL/varnish.htm

I think the original intent of this thread was to demonstrate an exploration of more traditional varnishes, ie those which do not use synthetic resins, metallic driers, and petrochemical thinners. When it comes to traditional varnishes, there are two basic categories, spirit based and oil based. Whilst many vintage guns have been finishes originally with finishes that contained some metallic dryers, it's also true that many were not. Some fine finishes can be built up with traditional varnishes, and in my experience their performance in the field can equal or exceed many of the modern products all things considered. I've got nothing against either type of finish (modern vs traditional or anything in between), but most off the shelf products are just NOT genuine oil finishes or anything like it, in my eyes.


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