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I think what your looking for is the 400 Jeffery's is the equivalent of the 450/400/3" without a rim. the 450/400/3" is a rimmed cartridge.

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I think what your looking for is the 400 Jeffery's is the equivalent of the 450/400/3" without a rim. the 450/400/3" is a rimmed cartridge.

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Sort of.
They use different diameter bullets - .408-.410 for the 450/400 3", and .423" for the 404 Jeffery Rimless.
The 404 was developed as a comparable rimless version of the well proven 450/400 3" for use in bolt action rifles.
I don't know why the 404 was designed with a .423" bullet but I suspect that it was actually developed in Germany and swiftly adopted by Jeffery as their proprietary cartridge much the same as they did with the .500 Jeffery later on.

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Correct. I think it also came from Shuler. Some german guns have the metric equivalent stamped instead of 404



OP-The 450/400 is the essentially the 450 NE 3 1/4 case neck to .408(the most common for 450/400 3 1/4) or .410(the most common for 450/400 3") Note that the 450/400 3" is also called the 400 Jeffery as they developed the modified case. The brits largely used a nomenclature where 450/400 reads 450NE necked to 400. The opposite of say 7mm-08 where we Americans use the new bore caliber before the parent case.

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450 ne vs 450/400 3" ne

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The difference is similar to being hit with a sledgehammer or a heavy hand hammer ....

ie the title of the thread.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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I think what your looking for is the 400 Jeffery's is the equivalent of the 450/400/3" without a rim. the 450/400/3" is a rimmed cartridge.

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Sort of.
They use different diameter bullets - .408-.410 for the 450/400 3", and .423" for the 404 Jeffery Rimless.
The 404 was developed as a comparable rimless version of the well proven 450/400 3" for use in bolt action rifles.
I don't know why the 404 was designed with a .423" bullet but I suspect that it was actually developed in Germany and swiftly adopted by Jeffery as their proprietary cartridge much the same as they did with the .500 Jeffery later on.

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The information below is from from research undertaken by Casey Lewis & Alf Smith who wrote 404 Jeffery - The Full Monty published in Big Bore Journal No. 21.
Although Jeffery consulted Krupp in regards barrel specifications, it seems the cartridge and bullet design was an all England initiative.


"Jeffery did not have access to magnum length Mauser actions and
had no choice but to use the standard Mauser action. In doing this
he could not use the 450/400-3" case turned into rimless as the degree
of opening up it needed would have affected action integrity too
much.
Jeffery had to design a shorter rimless cartridge by reducing the case
length of his popular .450/400x3" case from 3" 76.2mm to 73mm.
This still marginally reduced the safety margin, but was sufficiently
strong as long as the pressure was kept at the original specification of
17.2 tons per square inch (2,240 lbs to the ton). This considerable
reduction in the volume of the cartridge case would have resulted in
a drastic increase in pressure had they retained the .450/400x3" load
and kept the same diameter bullet as for the .450/400; namely the
.408".
Jeffery worked through Le Personne with Krupp regarding barrel
specifications as well as Eley and Kynoch who possessed the cartridge
design expertise, to duplicate combustion space by increasing the case
base diameter from 13.76mm/0.5417" to 13.843mm/0.545" and
the shoulder diameter of the .450/400x3" from 13.233mm/.521" to
13.462mm/.530". The rimIess version's bullet diameter was consequently
increased to .4225". The nett result of the modifications to
the .450/400x3" was the shorter, fatter, rimless cartridge we know as
the .404 Jeffery and which used the weight of bullet and propellant
as its rimmed predecessor."

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Quote:

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I think what your looking for is the 400 Jeffery's is the equivalent of the 450/400/3" without a rim. the 450/400/3" is a rimmed cartridge.

---

Sort of.
They use different diameter bullets - .408-.410 for the 450/400 3", and .423" for the 404 Jeffery Rimless.
The 404 was developed as a comparable rimless version of the well proven 450/400 3" for use in bolt action rifles.
I don't know why the 404 was designed with a .423" bullet but I suspect that it was actually developed in Germany and swiftly adopted by Jeffery as their proprietary cartridge much the same as they did with the .500 Jeffery later on.

---

The information below is from from research undertaken by Casey Lewis & Alf Smith who wrote 404 Jeffery - The Full Monty published in Big Bore Journal No. 21.
Although Jeffery consulted Krupp in regards barrel specifications, it seems the cartridge and bullet design was an all England initiative.


"Jeffery did not have access to magnum length Mauser actions and
had no choice but to use the standard Mauser action. In doing this
he could not use the 450/400-3" case turned into rimless as the degree
of opening up it needed would have affected action integrity too
much.
Jeffery had to design a shorter rimless cartridge by reducing the case
length of his popular .450/400x3" case from 3" 76.2mm to 73mm.
This still marginally reduced the safety margin, but was sufficiently
strong as long as the pressure was kept at the original specification of
17.2 tons per square inch (2,240 lbs to the ton). This considerable
reduction in the volume of the cartridge case would have resulted in
a drastic increase in pressure had they retained the .450/400x3" load
and kept the same diameter bullet as for the .450/400; namely the
.408".
Jeffery worked through Le Personne with Krupp regarding barrel
specifications as well as Eley and Kynoch who possessed the cartridge
design expertise, to duplicate combustion space by increasing the case
base diameter from 13.76mm/0.5417" to 13.843mm/0.545" and
the shoulder diameter of the .450/400x3" from 13.233mm/.521" to
13.462mm/.530". The rimIess version's bullet diameter was consequently
increased to .4225". The nett result of the modifications to
the .450/400x3" was the shorter, fatter, rimless cartridge we know as
the .404 Jeffery and which used the weight of bullet and propellant
as its rimmed predecessor."

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Correct me if I am wrong, but they "invented" something almost the same as the earlier 10.75x73 .... ?

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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Correct. I think it also came from Shuler. Some german guns have the metric equivalent stamped instead of 404

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I don't know why the 404 was designed with a .423" bullet but I suspect that it was actually developed in Germany and swiftly adopted by Jeffery as their proprietary cartridge much the same as they did with the .500 Jeffery later on.

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.......... drinking sprite with Isl. of Islay Gin & snacking on herring roll-mops. Yummy!

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.....only 2 things smell like herring, and one of them is herring

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"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
- Anon

“Always carry a flask of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore always carry a small snake."
-- W. C. Fields

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Thanks for the discussion guys.

So.. it seems to me like the 450 NE is a more powerful cartridge than the 450/400 3"

I'm looking at 2 guns by 2 different sellers, one being advertised as the 450ne, and the other the 450/400 3"

Is one 'better' than the other from a shooting or finding ammo point of view.

For reference, in high power cartridges, I have bolt guns in 416 rigby and 458 lott. ( 375 H&H in a single ), and 9.3x74R and 470 NE in doubles.

Thanks for the discussion and information, please continue educating me.

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I have a .450 NE. I don't have a .400 NE but have shot one.

They aren't equivalent chamberings at all. But can do similar jobs.

The .400 is around about the ideal buffalo and bovine calibre. Can be used for plains game. Can be used for elephant. Often in a somewhat lighter double rifles. Usually shoots a 400 gr or 410 gr porjectile. Calibre might vary in the ranges of .408 to .411 or even .413. In that neighbourhood. Usually shoots the 400 gr at about 2100 fps. An effective and nie milder choice for a big game rifle. Lesser powered than a .416 Rigby at least for velocity.

The .450 NE is the original ".470". The .470 came about after colonial bans of "military" calibres such as .450. Same sort of power and use. 480 gr projectile at around 2100 fps. Great choice for dangerous and big game. The start to the stopper range in my opinion. Good for buffalo and for elephant. Somewhat heavier rifles than the .400 range.

In my opinion the .450 NE in a double rifle is the epitome of the double rifle legend.

If I had a .470 I would lean to a .400 dr, unless the .450 NE dr was special for some reason. Or get rid of the .470 and buy both the .450 and .400.

Personally I could see a place in my safe for both a Jeffery .450 and a Jeffery .400.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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