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Homer
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Reged: 07/04/09
Posts: 2508
Loc: Canberra, Australia
Non commercial, Kangaroo shooting details
      #328351 - 14/05/19 08:59 AM

G'Day Fella's,

FYI; http://www.sportingshooter.com.au/latest...QZ1U0xW7alb-e-w

D'oh!
Homer

--------------------
"Beware the Lolly Pop of Mediocrity,
Lick it Once and You Will Suck Forever"


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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 11301
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: Non commercial, Kangaroo shooting details [Re: Homer]
      #328358 - 14/05/19 10:58 PM

Homer,

Do you do much of this??

Seems like a 22-250 would work just fine for head shots??

Looks like it would be serious fun..

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

Edited by Ripp (14/05/19 10:59 PM)


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Rule303
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Reged: 05/07/09
Posts: 3420
Loc: Woodford Qld
Re: Non commercial, Kangaroo shooting details [Re: Ripp]
      #328369 - 15/05/19 08:13 AM

Ripp, most use a 223.

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Daryl_S
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 19163
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Non commercial, Kangaroo shooting details [Re: Rule303]
      #328373 - 15/05/19 08:29 AM

When I was shooting 3-position with the retired WW11 lads in the 70's (somewere not retired yet), many of them used .222's and used the same rifles with Speer 55gr.Spitzers or Hornady 55gr. SP's for their deer hunting, in the "Kootenays" (South Central BC) as well as on Vancouver island.
The odd guy said the 70gr. Speer was really good on rib shots.

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 11301
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: Non commercial, Kangaroo shooting details [Re: Rule303]
      #328378 - 15/05/19 11:43 AM

Quote:

Ripp, most use a 223.




Sounds good..and makes sense--easy to come by, cheap to buy .. and plenty of power for the head shots...


I have a now retired friend who worked for the Montana Fish and Game..quite some time ago he was culling mule deer out of rancher/famers hay stacks in the winter time..there was a way over population at the time...his favorite was a 220 Swift, loaded with 52 gr Sierra HPBT bullets..said it was amazingly effective..

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 28656
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Non commercial, Kangaroo shooting details [Re: Ripp]
      #328383 - 15/05/19 12:38 PM

Art,

In my opinion the .22/250 and similar rifles make the best roo shooting choices there are.

In the older days, the .22/250 and the .243 with lightish bullets, as a 70 gr or 75 gr HP, were the most popular choices for professional roo shooters.

Head shots can be taken with almost anything, as long as the brain is hit. I remember shooting a roo once with my brand new .222 Remington 788, and at quite close range, missed the brain and blew the jaw off the poor creature. I quickly shot it again to kill it. I would hate for such an animal to escape like that.

Brain shots on roos are always preferred for professionals shooting for skins and meat. Some jurisdictions and gov't approval courses claim ONLY brain shots should be taken - "to minimise suffering" of the beast. Some stupid shooters echo this BS. If only brain shots can be taken to "minimise suffering" one day the animal welfare and rights types people will insist all hunting should only be brain shots.

A shot to the chest with a good .22 centrefire and certainly a .243 75 gr HP will kill it. The larger the calibre and heavier the bullet, the more chance of a large exist wound damaging the skin.

I would imagine the .223 is now a very popular roo shooting choice. One hardly hears of a .22/250 anymore being used. Maybe someone needs to invent a .22 Creedmore for the press to rave about endlessly - ha ha only joking.

If shooting to cull roos under permit, and no use is intended, then anything can be used. As damage is not an issue.

I remember once shooting a roo with a .30-06 with a .224 55 gr Accelerator projectile. Travelling at 4000 fps it flattened the roo pretty quickly.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 28656
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Re: Non commercial, Kangaroo shooting details [Re: NitroX]
      #328384 - 15/05/19 12:55 PM

JB, thanks for putting up that article.

I was looking for it last night.

I have been proposing as a political policy, actually have been pushing it myself for decades as to introduce sport hunting of roos.

I like this NSW policy.

Hopefully there is not too much BS and bureaucracy involved in getting listed and able to be a roo hunter under this policy. As this is also another way the bureaucrats restrict activities, red tape, training courses, fees and BS.

I believe Queensland allows five roo permits to be purchased and the hunter can find a property to hunt the roos on. Can never find much on that on the net though.

Now if NSW has this scheme it opens it all up more again.

I believe Victoria does not allow ANY shooting of roos at all. (?)

In SA, we have large amounts of roo shooting. Two types:
- commercial harvesting by licensed roo professionals shooting for hides and meat, by vehicle and spotlight at night; and
- culling for crop protection, where the carcase can not be removed from the property legally, so is left to rot. Or some might go to the farm dogs.

The first is usually on big outback properties and sheep properties to be economically viable.

The second type is where sporting hunters should get a look in. If there were allowed to do some of that culling shooting, and USE the carcase for personal consumption, or for their own pet meat needs, how wonderful that would be. And not wasting all that valuable protein.

I regularly eat roo mince burgers now. Probably buy a pack every week or fortnight. Would be great to make my own. And roo steaks are often good as well. Roo meat would make great goulashes and similar casseroles and stews as well.

So silly we can't do this in SA or other states.

I know the backlash from the moronic greenies, antis, veges and vegans, anti gunners, plastic monkey urbanites of course would be huge. If they knew about any such change ...

"Shooting an animal on the Coat of Arms - how dare they!!!" I have heard as one specific moronic excuse not to.

Mankind needs good protein. It is disrespectful to waste the meat if it could be used. Good animal rights issue. The meat should be used. Even if we are eating "someone's mother or father" ... as the ARs says. Won't say what one does to a joey if in the pouch ...

With good rainy years, we could have 70 million kangaroos in Australia. We harvest legally about 3.5 million per year commercially or as culls. I would guess two or three times that as non-official culls ... Roos breed up quickly in good years, can take a large sustainable harvest as a result. In bad years there would be massive natural die off. There is no reason we should not be eating more roo meat than beef or lamb in this country. AND HUNTERS should be able to feed their families regularly with wild shot roo meat. Healthy, low fat, non GM, free range wild meat. Perfect for the 2020's.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 28656
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Re: Non commercial, Kangaroo shooting details [Re: Ripp]
      #328385 - 15/05/19 01:12 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Ripp, most use a 223.




Sounds good..and makes sense--easy to come by, cheap to buy .. and plenty of power for the head shots...


I have a now retired friend who worked for the Montana Fish and Game..quite some time ago he was culling mule deer out of rancher/famers hay stacks in the winter time..there was a way over population at the time...his favorite was a 220 Swift, loaded with 52 gr Sierra HPBT bullets..said it was amazingly effective..




I have three .222's now and one .223.

A Mauser M03 barrel in .222, my first rifle, a Remington 788 in .222 and a .222 Rimmed on a Martini-Cadet. The .223 is on a combination barrel with 12 gauge for my Tikka/Valmet double rifle.

I like the .220 Swift as an thought better than the .22/250. Just being "old" again. It is Swifter as well.

I use my .222 Mauser for all my farm deer culling now. Headshots work very well. And a non brain shot if near drops them as well as it may crack the skull and damage the brain anyway, for females and younger males. The old bucks which I rarely shoot, need a proper brain shot as their skulls are thicker. Having said that, I probably only miss the brain once in over fifty animals. Even though fenced, the deer know INSTANTLY when you are carrying a rifle, either through eye sight, body language, perhaps smell. And run around a lot, always moving, heads constantly turning. I use shooting sticks but still need to get within 50 metres or less. They really do move their heads constantly. And in a herd you need to pick the shot so nothing is behind, or moves suddenly in front.

Why am I writing all this?

Roos are actually very hard to hunt. Where shot at a lot, they are often at 500 metres or 600 metres. Most "shooters" shoot only by spotlight when many animals are dumb. If a hunter tries to bow hunt a roo (as a test of course only, not for real ... ), they almost always know you are there, and will let the person get say 60 metres away, then hop a couple hundred more metres. This is where they haven't been shot at much. Of course in these circumstances a rifle can quite easily be used, as they sit there a hundred or two hundred metres away. Bang one is down.

Great running practice is to shoot roos on the hop. Probably breaches all the NSW ethical volunteer roo harvesting standards though ... but great for roo culling on a crop control permit.

Of course there are all sorts of "roos". The Western and Eastern Greys. The big boomer Reds of the plains. We had five of them on my property late last year. The drought drove them to lands with more moisture from the Murray plains across the ranges.

Then there are the mid sized euros and wallaroos. A lot of the so called "grey roos" here are sometimes the more shaggy coated mid sized Euros.

Lastly there are many species of wallabies. Some in the far North are tiny little things. I have seen a white one more than once.

Roo meat depending on its diet can be good or ... I have gutted roos which stunk inside so badly, no damage to the gut itself ... probably its diet was to blame. No doubt the Aboriginals years ago would know the cause, and when to eat those euros or roos and when not to, perhaps by season. If the Abos had a choice, ie need to food.

Roos where hunted are reasonably challenging to hunt. Would be some fun and add to our sporting hunting choices.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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Daryl_S
.577 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 19163
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Non commercial, Kangaroo shooting details [Re: NitroX]
      #328386 - 15/05/19 01:12 PM

Sounds good to me. Had Roo burgers at a Model Airplane fun-fly back in the 90's. Very good, it was.

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 28656
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Non commercial, Kangaroo shooting details [Re: NitroX]
      #328387 - 15/05/19 01:14 PM

PS the tanned hides are good on the floor as well.

Most visitors from OS I have had, who are hunters, always express a desire to take a roo.

It should be easy for them to do so, AND take photos of a legally sport hunted roo. AND take a tanned hide back as a "trophy" memento.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 28656
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Re: Non commercial, Kangaroo shooting details [Re: NitroX]
      #328394 - 15/05/19 01:38 PM

I've wanted to try out my 6.5x55 on roos with a sub 100 gr HP. I think it is possible to get 85 gr or 90 gr HPs in 6.5mm? Maybe our Creedmore users would know?

Roos don't need a heavy constructed projectile. A HP is better than something well constructed.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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Daryl_S
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 19163
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Non commercial, Kangaroo shooting details [Re: NitroX]
      #328396 - 15/05/19 03:47 PM

I've a box containing 48 rounds of 6.5x55 ammo, that were originally in a Norma box, but have military markings on the head-stamp.
They are loaded with an 80.1gr. RMJ round nosed bullet, with a quoted velocity of 2,975fps.

Seems to me, Sierra used to have an 85gr.Spitzer and an 87gr. HP, and Hornady an 87gr. but a Spire Point.
Speer's 100gr. HP was a huge HP hole. That one I drove at about 3,200fps from my 6.5 Mag and a gut shot would lift a 12 pound ground hog (Eastern Woodchuck) almost 8' in the air, spewing his innards in a large circle. Dead instantly, of course. Very effective.
The 85's did not shoot as well.
The old books, like Hodgdon's #21, dated 1970, lists 6.5 mm bullets starting at 77gr., then 87gr., 100gr., etc.
Lyman's #44 and #45 list 6.5x55 loads for 85gr., from an 18" Swedish Carbine of 18", and 7 1/2" twist at 3,225fps with H380, to 3,247fps using IMR powders. #44 was published in 1967 and was my first reloading book.
Hornady has a 95gr. Vmax. Per calibre, they usually work as well or better (faster expansion) than older HP's.
Even a M96 with 23.4" (model 38) should be able to get 3,150fps with the 95gr. or 100gr. 6.5's. I'd use ADI's 2208H(?) H4895 equiv.
There are no flies on the old Swede.


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Rule303
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Reged: 05/07/09
Posts: 3420
Loc: Woodford Qld
Re: Non commercial, Kangaroo shooting details [Re: NitroX]
      #328398 - 15/05/19 07:33 PM

It is a great waste not to use Roo skins. The leather is one of the strongest yet pliable leather's going.

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4seventy
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Reged: 07/05/03
Posts: 2164
Loc: Queensland Australia
Re: Non commercial, Kangaroo shooting details [Re: Ripp]
      #328420 - 16/05/19 09:34 AM

Quote:



Seems like a 22-250 would work just fine for head shots??





Ripp,
The cartridges favoured for pro roo shooting have got smaller over the years.
When I first started commercial shooting back in the late 1970's, the 243 Win was popular and it worked well for me at that time.

Later I changed to an early 22-250 Ruger 77 which worked great with 55 grainers.
I also used a Sako 222 Magnum shooting the same bullets and then later a BSA 222 Rem. Both worked well.

The 243 was very good for (frontal) head shots on big roos as penetration was better due to the heavier/stronger projectiles than the 22 cal.

My favourite was the 22-250, with the only downside being heavier throat erosion compared to 222 Rem.


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Daryl_S
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Re: Non commercial, Kangaroo shooting details [Re: 4seventy]
      #328421 - 16/05/19 10:02 AM

My Sako A1 still shoots fairly well with ammo it likes, which is, actually more numerous than not. Interesting that is didn't like the VV133(some do), but did like AA2230, and does equally well with H4895, H and IMR 4198, IMR3031, Hodgdon's H335 and a few others as well as a variety of bullets from 40gr. to 55gr.




--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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Homer
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Reged: 07/04/09
Posts: 2508
Loc: Canberra, Australia
Re: Non commercial, Kangaroo shooting details [Re: Ripp]
      #328436 - 16/05/19 06:18 PM

Quote:

Homer,

Do you do much of this??

Seems like a 22-250 would work just fine for head shots??

Looks like it would be serious fun..




G'Day Fella's,

Ripp, as the other blokes have suggested, both the .223 and the .22-250, are very good for this job.
These days, I use the .223 but for decades, I got by with very accurate Tikka (model LSA 55) factory rifles, in .222 Rem.
Out West in New South Wales (NSW) and Queensland (QLD), where the shooting distances can be longer (Wide open plains and Skitish/Nervous Skippy's), the .22-250 is popular apparently. I hear that shots out there, can regularly be in the 200 to 300 meter range.
Around here (Southern Tablelands and the Monaro of NSW), most shots are in the less than 100 to 200 meters distance.
Most of this shooting (and it is Shooting, Not Hunting), is done at night using a spotlight. and standing on the back of a vehicle, as you drive around the paddocks looking for "Customers". If they are not in range, we usually just drive closer .......... sometimes.

Generally, I would use a 50ish grain bullet, but have been known to use 40 grain bullets on Cattle Studs, where an over penetration, could cost the shooter $10,000.00!
These particular Cattle, (Murry Grey/Angus Cross), blend into the back ground EXCEEDINGLY WELL at night unfortunately, and you don't know they are there, until the look at you, and you see the reflection of their eye's, in the spotlight. Never shot one, so luckily, never had to pay the bill.

The main reason most people I know, use a .222 or .223, is pure economics, for both Ammo cost and Barrel wear. If you are undertaking this work, it doesn't take you many years to shoot out a barrel, even with appropriate care and cleaning.
I also know of Professional Roo Shooters (Pro's), that are using 6mm PPC and 6mm BR chambered rifles, for this same reason (extending barrel life), with the added benifit of less wind drift.
When I was doing this, we would normally try to deck 40 or 50 Skippy's a night (and 99.999% brain shots or as a mate of mine (JC) calls them, "Aussie Heart Shots"). Any lesser tally, would only be a half hearted effort, and a waste of time, fuel and effort.

With the changes in the regulations, in recent years, I know some Pro's around here, that are now using .17 HMR rimfire rifle's to get the job done. The convenience, of not having to spend a couple of hours reloading, prior to a nights shooting, is a help to these blokes.
Just grab a couple of boxes of "Crackers", and head out the door.
Obviously the .17 HMR statergy, probably wouldn't work at the longer distance, out West!

Hope that helps

No Probs NitroX.

D'oh!
Homer

--------------------
"Beware the Lolly Pop of Mediocrity,
Lick it Once and You Will Suck Forever"


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