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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Shotguns

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Joshua
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10ga Belgian SxS
      #299498 - 23/04/17 07:06 AM

Ok, so my father has a nice older 10ga that I really like. He doesn't use it much and I would like to use it for upstate New York deer and bear and possibly Vermont moose. Would like some ideas on some loads to use please

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Joshua
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Re: 10ga Belgian SxS [Re: Joshua]
      #299500 - 23/04/17 07:11 AM

It is meant for 3 1/2" shells, but could shorter 2 7/8" be used? It is a smooth bore so not sure of what would be a good load for the above as he bought it goose.

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Wayne59
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Re: 10ga Belgian SxS [Re: Joshua]
      #299506 - 23/04/17 08:32 AM

What is the maker of the 10ga. When was it made. If it was made in the late 1800s or early 19s than unless it was altered it probably was chambered for 2 1/2 or 2 7/8" shells. Are they Damascus barrels or steel barrels. Without knowing the answers to these questions you would probable be better off leaving it in the closet. (you should probable have the barrels measured for chamber length and barrel wall thickness).

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Joshua
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Re: 10ga Belgian SxS [Re: Wayne59]
      #299507 - 23/04/17 08:35 AM

The gun was built in the early 40's with steel barrels. It was from the factory with 3.5" chambers

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Daryl_S
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Re: 10ga Belgian SxS [Re: Joshua]
      #299512 - 23/04/17 11:16 AM

Ok - so steel barrels, 3 1/2" chambers - what chokes?

If you are going to use it for ball or slugs, knowing what the chokes are might effect the ball size you load.

Are you planning on using factory slugs or buckshot for deer & bear? If you are planning to use buckshot, I'm finished with this thread. I do not like the idea of shooting at either deer or black bear with shot - smaller than about .50 cal.loaded into your shotshells. A triple ball load using .490" balls will have 529gr. of lead (3x176.5gr.)just under 1 1/4 ounces. 4 balls will weigh 706gr. = 1.6ounces. A couple 16 bore balls might make a good load - 2 ounces.


If you are planning on using factory slugs - then buy a variety and test them for accuracy - one will usually be better than all the others.

If you want to use round ball and develop your own load data - even better - we can help with suggestions.

If you do not reload - you are stuck with factory ammo and how they shoot in your gun.

Generally the longer case fitting the chamber will give better accuracy, but not always.

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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Wayne59
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Re: 10ga Belgian SxS [Re: Daryl_S]
      #299516 - 23/04/17 12:04 PM

If you can post pics of the barrel flats and the water tables it would be of help. With out knowing the chokes on your gun recommendations for loads would be worthless. It is pretty difficult to do what your wanting to do and you will be lucky to get one barrel to shoot to the bead let alone attain regulation with both barrels. You would be working with shotgun powders witch are very fast burning so there is very little room for error.

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buckeyeshooter
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Re: 10ga Belgian SxS [Re: Wayne59]
      #306876 - 27/10/17 03:55 PM

First of all, in the USA at least the slug load is an offering of one! The federal foster slug in 1 3/4 oz. It kills deer easily and works ok on bear as long as lung shots are used. It will fragment on shoulder shots on bears over 350 pounds.
I have used both the #4 buck and 00 buck loads on deer. They kill ok, based on distance and pattern in your gun. I would not use them on large bear. For deer, I shoot for the head with buckshot or a side lung shot.

I have played with the 10 many years and own an H&R 36 inch single, an Elibar bouble barrel that I bought sawed of at 20 inches and a Remington SP-10 with a 26 and 22 inch barrels and factory screw in chokes.


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Wayne59
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Re: 10ga Belgian SxS [Re: buckeyeshooter]
      #306902 - 28/10/17 12:33 AM

It seems to me that he was asking for loading information not where he can run out and buy a slug. If the gun is a double (he dosn't say) hand loading would be necessary to have any chance of regulation. If we are counting 10ga's I think I have about 8 or 10 of them. I load for all of them.

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Daryl_S
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Re: 10ga Belgian SxS [Re: Wayne59]
      #306918 - 28/10/17 02:56 AM

I have not been able to find slug data for the 10 bore in my shotshell loading books, only shot and buckshot.

Do you have or have developed data for 10 bore slugs, Wayne?

Loading it with card and fiber wads, round ball and black powder would be quite easily accomplished. The recoil could be memorable.

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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Wayne59
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Re: 10ga Belgian SxS [Re: Daryl_S]
      #306929 - 28/10/17 11:05 AM

Daryl. Let me check and I will see what I can find.

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Kiwi_bloke
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Re: 10ga Belgian SxS [Re: Wayne59]
      #306935 - 28/10/17 11:24 AM

Lyman's 3rd shotgun reloading manual has only 10 gauge magnum buck loads. However the The Mighty Ten Gauge Revision IV (1987) edition by Ballistic Products has several slug loads for the 3.5" 10 gauge shell.

These are described as heavy duty slug loads for bear, (in case one takes an interest while you are hunting waterfowl). One load uses a 12 gauge Brenneke slug inside a BPD10 wad. One is for a Slugmaster 12 gauge 437 grain slug. The last one uses "a special 755 grain slug" whatever that is.

You could also just try factory loads to see how they regulate, if you haven't already. You might get lucky. Some European gunmakers make side by side 12g shotguns especially for slugs. I think they might better regulated to shoot slugs, which have a different recoil, but also they may have different sights.


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Daryl_S
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Re: 10ga Belgian SxS [Re: Kiwi_bloke]
      #306942 - 28/10/17 03:58 PM

I checked my 2nd, 3rd and 5th Lyman Shotshell books - only bird shot and buck shot loads, along with some heavy (tungsten, I assume) shot loads in the newest, #5 book.

Now, any of these loads would likely work with round ball or slugs of the same weight - trouble with that, is they are slow as they use faster burning powders.

If real SAFE powder is desired, then black powder, card and fiber wads and round balls will provide REAL power - just as they did back in the 1980's through 90's.

I would expect 8 to 10 drams being normal for round ball loads. Likely should check Green's Book.

Just did, page 689. "The Gun and it's Development"
10 bore - weight of ball 670gr. listed as .775" (should be 700gr. in pure lead) charge 10 drams (273gr.) weight of gun 11 pounds.
Vel listed as 1,600fps, muzzle energy 3,929fpe. +2.5" at 50yards, zero 100.


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Wayne59
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Re: 10ga Belgian SxS [Re: Daryl_S]
      #306970 - 29/10/17 08:38 AM

Och! Problem with Bp in those doses it's a one time deal. Powder burns right through the plastic hull. I shoot them in my 8ga's Makes lots of smoke and still has plenty of boot even in a 16lb gun. There a hoot to shoot.

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Daryl_S
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Re: 10ga Belgian SxS [Re: Wayne59]
      #306976 - 29/10/17 03:41 PM

If good paper hulls cannot be found, then perhaps 10 bore brass is available from Buffalo Arms? They would be shorter, lil,ey 2 1/2" to 2 3/4" likely, which would reduce the loads, some.

Instead of having 50% more recoil than a .458 Win Mag in a 9 1/2 pound rifle, maybe just equal - what fun!

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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Wayne59
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Re: 10ga Belgian SxS [Re: Daryl_S]
      #306988 - 30/10/17 01:37 AM

Track of the wolf and Rocky mountain cartridge company are the only sores for 10ga brass that I know of. $7.00 to $10.00 a round last time I checked. Havn't been able to find any paper hulls. There is a company that makes the paper tubes that you can put together with the brass part of your old hull but also expensive. $200.00 for 25 brass cases, just can't get there from here. Once fired Rem hulls from precision reloading is the way to go. $25.00 a 100.

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Kiwi_bloke
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Re: 10ga Belgian SxS [Re: Wayne59]
      #307082 - 31/10/17 01:19 PM

If you ask Ballistic Products nicely, you might get data from them, especially if you are buying other stuff from them. Slug data is always shown in reloading manuals separate from shot and also from buckshot data. So I would not think they are interchangeable. That sounds "intrepid" to me.

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Daryl_S
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Re: 10ga Belgian SxS [Re: Kiwi_bloke]
      #307107 - 01/11/17 04:09 AM

When starting loading balls in my 12 bore sxs, I started with using WAA12White wad bases as a gas check, then a fiber wad and a plastic base, cup-up under the ball to centre it in the bore. I also started with loads for a 1 1/4ounce shot charge using a slow burning shotshell powder, just to be super safe. It was super safe as the ball was only 1 1/8th ounce and I was able to safely increase the powder charge to get 1,500fps with the ball.

If loading them like they do on U-tube like TAOFLEDERMAUS and some others, they simply pull the shot load and stuff in whatever slug they are testing. I did not do that, as the fast burning powders used in most light shot loads, did not give me the peace of mind, that slow burning powders and low printed pressures gave me. Mine had standard star crimps.

I have noted, of late, that the above named lads are now hand loading for some of the slugs they are sent to test from around the world, using 'Steel' of 'Longshot' powders which are more suitable for these type of loads.

I have no slug or ball data for these.

I refer anyone who wants to try shot loads with balls or slugs, to buy a Lyman book, study it and use due care when developing your loads.

If not understanding what and how you are doing this, don't!

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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ducmarc
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Re: 10ga Belgian SxS [Re: Daryl_S]
      #307453 - 08/11/17 12:03 PM

lots of guys make slugs with scockets, +1 one ballistic products they are great people and make there own reloading guides.lots of stuff i buy my supplies and parts for my mec loaders

--------------------
'killed by death' Lemmy.. ' boil the dog ' Elvis Manywounds "my best friend is my magnum forty four" hank willams the third.


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theprof1
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Re: 10ga Belgian SxS [Re: ducmarc]
      #324339 - 06/02/19 11:04 PM

Round ball is a way to go, I have a 12 sxs and was given a 6 cavity 12 round ball mold , the balls passed nicely through the cylinder choked barrels, 480gn so about 1 3/16 oz. I figured that if I used a 1 1/4 oz powder reload charge the round ball would give a lower pressure than the accepted 1 1/4 oz recommendation being 1/16 oz lighter. I loaded the powder then used 1 1/18 plastic wads with the petals cut off just below the midpoint (widest) point of the ball. The wad as such stabilized the ball fairly central to the bore. My Chronograph was on loan to a buddy at the time but the old double put 2 balls from each barrel - four total, into an area the size of a cigarette packet at 50 yards say 2 3/4 inch by 3 inches. The ballistic tables for the load suggested about 1250 fps for the 1 1/4 oz shot load but may have been slightly higher given the slightly lighter shot / ball weight. burn was clean and no signs of pressure on the fired cases.
The loaded rounds were all roll crimped with a traditional hand cranked crimper, no over ball wad, the plastic wad compressed while crimping then pushed the ball back up against the crimp when completed, giving a very even crimp pressure across all the loaded shells.

Edited by theprof1 (08/02/19 10:40 AM)


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Daryl_S
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Re: 10ga Belgian SxS [Re: theprof1]
      #324356 - 07/02/19 06:00 AM

Theprof1 - that is how I started loading mine as well, when attempting to find a smokeless load. I was able to increase the loads using very slow shotshell powders, to 1,500fps, which matched the velocity of the 1980's load of 7 drams (190gr.). That was the heaviest load used and only in the 2 3/4" cases, I think. Later, there was a 3" load shooting 9 drams. One of NE.Com members in Denmark or Norway, iirc, has one of these 12 bore doubles, for the 9dram 3" load.
I would expect that load to break most modern shotgun stocks of walnut.

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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Sarg
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Re: 10ga Belgian SxS [Re: Daryl_S]
      #324358 - 07/02/19 06:24 AM

Quote:

Theprof1 - that is how I started loading mine as well, when attempting to find a smokeless load. I was able to increase the loads using very slow shotshell powders, to 1,500fps, which matched the velocity of the 1980's load of 7 drams (190gr.). That was the heaviest load used and only in the 2 3/4" cases, I think. Later, there was a 3" load shooting 9 drams. One of NE.Com members in Denmark or Norway, iirc, has one of these 12 bore doubles, for the 9dram 3" load.
I would expect that load to break most modern shotgun stocks of walnut.




You could mean my near 15lb 12Bore 3in Double Rifle Daryl, did you perhaps also mean 1880's for that load ?

--------------------
No poor bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making other bastards die for their country.

- General George S. Patton


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Daryl_S
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Re: 10ga Belgian SxS [Re: Sarg]
      #324410 - 08/02/19 06:15 AM

LOL - yes 1880's - or might have been 1890's - listed in Greener's #9 Edition.
Might have been your gun I was thinking of, Sarg.

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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MotelAlpha
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Re: 10ga Belgian SxS [Re: Daryl_S]
      #328343 - 14/05/19 01:16 AM

Ten bore slugs are the way to go...My loading is 768grains hollow based slug, that I make in a mold I had made, 45-50 grains of Blue dot, in RMC made brass shells with enough filler to take up the room. I have also used Alliant Black MZ 135 grains... Nice powder no BP cleanup, but lots of push/boom. As Daryl s indicates you must determine the bore size(s). I wrap the slugs in plumbers tape to assure both will fit tightly enough for barrel differences.

--------------------
Pro Deo et Pro Patria


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Ripp
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Re: 10ga Belgian SxS [Re: MotelAlpha]
      #328350 - 14/05/19 07:03 AM

I have a 10 gauge SXS --useD it to hunt geese years ago..have not shot it in a very long time..

Have to say, personally, it would not be my first,second or third choice to pack around hunting game.. but hey, each to their own..

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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