Home | Ezine | Forums | Links | Contact
NitroExpress.com: Marlin-1895 -- CAPE BUFFALO HUNTER

View recent messages : 24 hours | 48 hours | 7 days | 14 days | 30 days | 60 days | More Smilies


*** Enjoy NitroExpress.com? Participate and join in. ***

Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Rifles

Pages: 1 | 2 | >> (show all)
Ripp
.577 member


Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Marlin-1895 -- CAPE BUFFALO HUNTER
      #328170 - 09/05/19 11:04 AM

Marlin 1895: Cape Buffalo Hunter
SGM. Kyle Lamb (Ret.) - May 07, 2019

Thought there was a post about this previously..but couldn't find it...
Maybe I am thinking of the 30-30 in Africa.?? So, here it is.

https://www.gunsandammo.com/editorial/marlin-1895-cape-buffalo-hunter/360487

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

Edited by Ripp (09/05/19 11:19 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26413
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Marlin-1895 -- CAPE BUFFALO HUNTER [Re: Ripp]
      #328188 - 10/05/19 03:04 AM

Very low velocity, I am surprised. 540gr. at 1,350fps.

I was driving 560gr. hardened alloy slugs about 1,950fps from my .458 2". No wonder Elmer said it would be 'enough' gun.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Ripp
.577 member


Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: Marlin-1895 -- CAPE BUFFALO HUNTER [Re: DarylS]
      #328200 - 10/05/19 09:30 AM

Quote:

Very low velocity, I am surprised. 540gr. at 1,350fps.

I was driving 560gr. hardened alloy slugs about 1,950fps from my .458 2". No wonder Elmer said it would be 'enough' gun.




I agree.. thought the same thing. Yet seemed to get the job done..

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26413
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Marlin-1895 -- CAPE BUFFALO HUNTER [Re: Ripp]
      #328205 - 10/05/19 10:55 AM

Yes- sent this to my buddy who was in Namibia last Sept. and he replied with this.
" Our outfitter has for cape buff, lion, and plains game with hunters using 4570's and Barns bullets and was very impressed."

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Ripp
.577 member


Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: Marlin-1895 -- CAPE BUFFALO HUNTER [Re: DarylS]
      #328210 - 10/05/19 01:33 PM

Quote:

Yes- sent this to my buddy who was in Namibia last Sept. and he replied with this.
" Our outfitter has for cape buff, lion, and plains game with hunters using 4570's and Barns bullets and was very impressed."




I would think that combo would be very deadly...

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
tinker
.416 member


Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: Marlin-1895 -- CAPE BUFFALO HUNTER [Re: DarylS]
      #328212 - 10/05/19 01:52 PM

Quote:

Very low velocity, I am surprised. 540gr. at 1,350fps.

I was driving 560gr. hardened alloy slugs about 1,950fps from my .458 2". No wonder Elmer said it would be 'enough' gun.




440gr at 1350 from the revolver did it for Jack on Cape Buffalo on his summer South Africa hunt.

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26413
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Marlin-1895 -- CAPE BUFFALO HUNTER [Re: tinker]
      #328215 - 10/05/19 03:46 PM

Yes - Ross Sefreid did it as well with a .45 Linebeau conversion. 340gr.(I think) at about 1,350fps.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Ripp
.577 member


Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: Marlin-1895 -- CAPE BUFFALO HUNTER [Re: DarylS]
      #328222 - 10/05/19 09:55 PM

Quote:

Yes - Ross Sefreid did it as well with a .45 Linebeau conversion. 340gr.(I think) at about 1,350fps.


..

Which is just a shortened versio of the 45-70 correct??

checked it out..
The .475 Linebaugh is an extremely potent rimmed revolver cartridge developed by John Linebaugh in the late 1980s. The cartridge is based on the .45-70 Government case cut down to 1.4 inches and loaded with .475-inch-diameter (12.1 mm) bullets weighing from 320 grains (21 g) to 440 grains (29 g). Although the .45 Silhouette cartridge is also derived from a .45-70 trimmed down to 1.5 inches, the .475 Linebaugh saw the same case modified to accept .475 caliber bullets, resulting in significantly different ballistic performance.

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

Edited by Ripp (10/05/19 11:46 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26413
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Marlin-1895 -- CAPE BUFFALO HUNTER [Re: Ripp]
      #328231 - 11/05/19 02:16 AM

I thought the one Ross used was chambered in the .454 Casul-length case.
Linebaugh - yes - think that is the proper spelling. also had a .50 and .50 Spl. seems to me. The .50 SPL I found, was an interesting round, with ballistics closer to standard .44 SPL. handloads, but of course, a larger dia. & heavier weight bullet.


"ross seyfried did a great article about them in G&A March 1990.

he says it was one of hamilton bowen's designs. its based on a cut-back .500 which in turn is based on the .348 Win case.

it uses the same .510 bullets as its big brother. moulds were available back then thru LBT and NEI. bowen's favorite bullet was a 350 gr round nose. also used were the 300 gr jacketed flat point designed for the 50-70.

seyfried thought that round would be best with bullets in the 350-385 range. he liked using Unique in it and used 12 grs Unique to drive a 385 Flat Point Cast at 975 fps (he also got that speed with 23 gr of WW296).

back then bowen was converting redhawks and blackhawks to the 50sp.

i'm like you: they make a lot of sense to me. i've always wanted one. maybe someday..."

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
lancaster
.470 member


Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 8664
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...
Re: Marlin-1895 -- CAPE BUFFALO HUNTER [Re: DarylS]
      #328235 - 11/05/19 04:45 AM

the one and only american dream - to shoot a cape buffalo with a 45/70!

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Ripp
.577 member


Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: Marlin-1895 -- CAPE BUFFALO HUNTER [Re: DarylS]
      #328241 - 11/05/19 09:29 AM

Quote:

I thought the one Ross used was chambered in the .454 Casul-length case.
Linebaugh - yes - think that is the proper spelling. also had a .50 and .50 Spl. seems to me. The .50 SPL I found, was an interesting round, with ballistics closer to standard .44 SPL. handloads, but of course, a larger dia. & heavier weight bullet.


"ross seyfried did a great article about them in G&A March 1990.

he says it was one of hamilton bowen's designs. its based on a cut-back .500 which in turn is based on the .348 Win case.

it uses the same .510 bullets as its big brother. moulds were available back then thru LBT and NEI. bowen's favorite bullet was a 350 gr round nose. also used were the 300 gr jacketed flat point designed for the 50-70.

seyfried thought that round would be best with bullets in the 350-385 range. he liked using Unique in it and used 12 grs Unique to drive a 385 Flat Point Cast at 975 fps (he also got that speed with 23 gr of WW296).

back then bowen was converting redhawks and blackhawks to the 50sp.

i'm like you: they make a lot of sense to me. i've always wanted one. maybe someday..."




I have a local friend who owns a gun store.. bad combo..

Anyway, he is a hell of a shot with his .475 Linebaugh's.. hammered a cow elk a few years back at an incredible yardage..open sights..she dropped to the shot.. most impressive..

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Rule303
.416 member


Reged: 05/07/09
Posts: 4896
Loc: Woodford Qld
Re: Marlin-1895 -- CAPE BUFFALO HUNTER [Re: Ripp]
      #328246 - 11/05/19 09:53 AM

Thousands of Water Buffalo in our Northern Territory have fallen to the 45-70. For many years the NT did not allow what they deemed high powered or velocity rifles to be used. So most just shot them with a 45-70

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Ripp
.577 member


Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: Marlin-1895 -- CAPE BUFFALO HUNTER [Re: Rule303]
      #328260 - 12/05/19 04:23 AM

Quote:

Thousands of Water Buffalo in our Northern Territory have fallen to the 45-70. For many years the NT did not allow what they deemed high powered or velocity rifles to be used. So most just shot them with a 45-70




Yes, I believe by some, the 45-70 is way under rated..

With the right bullets there are not too many things you point it at that would not drop..

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26413
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Marlin-1895 -- CAPE BUFFALO HUNTER [Re: Ripp]
      #328272 - 12/05/19 01:46 PM

My bro shot a 10 year old bull bison with his Sharps, using a 500gr. RN (Lyman #457125) with a black powder duplication load producing 1,240fps, iirc. Imagine that - killed 'im.
It was close to, perhaps over 2,000pounds on the hoof. Domestic bulls, raised in captivity have a propensity for getting very large. I will find out from Taylor what it actually weighted. Acordiing to Wikipedia, "typical weight ranges in the species were reported as 460 to 988 kg (1,014 to 2,178 lb) in males and 360 to 544 kg (794 to 1,199 lb) in females. When raised in captivity and farmed for meat, the bison can grow unnaturally heavy and the largest semidomestic bison weighed 1,724 kg (3,801 lb)"


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39061
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Marlin-1895 -- CAPE BUFFALO HUNTER [Re: Rule303]
      #328285 - 12/05/19 04:33 PM

Quote:

Thousands of Water Buffalo in our Northern Territory have fallen to the 45-70. For many years the NT did not allow what they deemed high powered or velocity rifles to be used. So most just shot them with a 45-70




Are you sure this is not Western Australia?

I have been going up to the NT since 1983 and it has not been the case since then, and never heard of it before then either.

For example I remember a buffalo hunting article in Outdoors Australia from the late 1970's where the guys were using two .300 Magnums, one a Winchester and the other either H&H or a Norma, and the third rifle was a .375 H&H Magnum.

On the other hand, WA heavily restricted non "high powered" cartridge rifles until ???, I have no idea when it was finally changed.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39061
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Marlin-1895 -- CAPE BUFFALO HUNTER [Re: NitroX]
      #328286 - 12/05/19 04:45 PM

The reason Garret bullets are so low velocity, is because this is the company which used to, and may still do, say "the slower the velocity, the more effective their bullets are" ... ha ha ha.

I have always assumed this was because if you drive their projectiles too fast, I think probably they break up.

These .45/70 and cape buffalo stories and threads were common argument fodder on the hunting and shooting troll infested forums ten years ago. A good way to start arguments and get activity back in those forums.

Now one just has to add "ideal" to the "the .45/70 is the ideal cape buffalo hunting cartridge" and away you used to go!

***

Now from a different angle.

When I hunted cape buffalo in the Gwayi Valley in 2001 or 2002, the PH and Outfitter Pen de Vries, said he was thinking of getting a Marlin Guide "Gun" as a saddle scabbard rifle. He used to do horseback safaris, both hunting and game viewing. And thought a .45/70 Marlin was a useful backup rifle. I assume he was also including cape buffalo.

Then later in the Matetsi Safari Area, after the Warvets threw us off the Gwayi Valley Conservancy property of Pen's, there was an American client in the camp as well. He did not shoot an elephant dead with a .45/70 but did use his to shoot a 'dead elephant'. He hunted with a different rifle. Then used the .450/70 with 540 gr hard cast projectiles to test penetration on the elephant's skull. They thought the penetration was adequate.

As I said earlier, this topic was all the rage 15 plus years ago.

I am sure .45/70's have killed a lot of water buffalo. But .44/40's and .303's almost certainly far far more. In the old buff hunting days. Orginally from horseback, and later from the back of a Landrover or Landcruiser.

The killing power needed for a buffalo is over-rated. For say 19 out of 20 buffalo. Then you get the 20th, which may well be the First. One never knows. Then one needs and wishes for something with far more grunt.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39061
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Marlin-1895 -- CAPE BUFFALO HUNTER [Re: DarylS]
      #328287 - 12/05/19 04:52 PM

Quote:

Very low velocity, I am surprised. 540gr. at 1,350fps.





I am going to be cynical and say ...

Yep surprising low velocity.

Why would one need a scope to shoot with that load? Must be rainbow trajectory.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39061
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Marlin-1895 -- CAPE BUFFALO HUNTER [Re: NitroX]
      #328288 - 12/05/19 04:54 PM



Two ideal cape buffalo killing rounds.

The . 77/450 and the .45/70!

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26413
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Marlin-1895 -- CAPE BUFFALO HUNTER [Re: NitroX]
      #328297 - 13/05/19 12:42 AM

Someone claim it was ideal? Not I, but in a .45/70 Siamese Mauser I had made up for a friend, we tested all my .458 2" loads (3/8" freebore allowed long seating and increased case capacity.
His capacity, with the a 3/16" throat was slightly higher than mine, but his rifle produced exactly the same speeds.

2,060fps with 500gr. Hornady RN's and 510gr.WW Solids.
2,150fps with 400gr. Barnes Spitzers and Orig.Style .049" jackets.
2,396fps with 350gr. Hornady RN's.

I would not use these loads in a Marlin - well, they wouldn't fit in the case anyway - not with the powders I used. We used H335 & 68gr. with all bullet weights in these Mauser rifles. Mine was a VZ34. I could look it up, but pretty sure I remember what I used for over 30 years in that round.
The 350's were dynamite moose loads.
I also got 1,960 or 1940 with the 560gr. Lyman bullet hardened. At 30 brinel it would not break up.
Ideal for all game - certainly not, but would work better or at least as well as the .450/400 with 400gr. at 2,050fps.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Ripp
.577 member


Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: Marlin-1895 -- CAPE BUFFALO HUNTER [Re: NitroX]
      #328304 - 13/05/19 08:42 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Very low velocity, I am surprised. 540gr. at 1,350fps.





I am going to be cynical and say ...

Yep surprising low velocity.

Why would one need a scope to shoot with that load? Must be rainbow trajectory.




I know you are kidding around, but I would have no problem hunting a cape buffalo with a 45/70.. and don't feel the loads above are necessary...

It all depends on the scenario when hunting and how amped up there are before the shot..at least that has been my experience..get in on them with them really knowing you are there before the shot vs chasing them on foot for 2-3 hours and then finally getting a shot into one.. at that point, keep shooting and keep reloading..

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Rule303
.416 member


Reged: 05/07/09
Posts: 4896
Loc: Woodford Qld
Re: Marlin-1895 -- CAPE BUFFALO HUNTER [Re: NitroX]
      #328305 - 13/05/19 09:09 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Thousands of Water Buffalo in our Northern Territory have fallen to the 45-70. For many years the NT did not allow what they deemed high powered or velocity rifles to be used. So most just shot them with a 45-70




Are you sure this is not Western Australia?

I have been going up to the NT since 1983 and it has not been the case since then, and never heard of it before then either.

For example I remember a buffalo hunting article in Outdoors Australia from the late 1970's where the guys were using two .300 Magnums, one a Winchester and the other either H&H or a Norma, and the third rifle was a .375 H&H Magnum.

On the other hand, WA heavily restricted non "high powered" cartridge rifles until ???, I have no idea when it was finally changed.




Yep, no Buff in WA then.

The rules change in the NT some time in the early to mid 70's?. A 303 was not deemed to be a high powered hi velocity round. There were some other intricacies with the act (as explained to me)as I think a 375H&H was OK (Don't quote me on this as I can not remember all of what I told back then) but most could not afford them. Also remember reading a few hunt stories in gun magazines about hunting the Buff and this was also mentioned in some of those articles.

WA's change has been in more recent times, late 80's early 90's going by magazine article I remember reading.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39061
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Marlin-1895 -- CAPE BUFFALO HUNTER [Re: Ripp]
      #328314 - 13/05/19 12:06 PM

Quote:


It all depends on the scenario when hunting and how amped up there are before the shot..




Or if the shot wounds it, and then a follow up on a worked up and angry cape buffalo is required. Then the .45/70 carrier will wish much for a better rifle.

I think I am going to start pushing the .577/450 as a great buffalo rifle. Same class as the .45/70.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39061
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Marlin-1895 -- CAPE BUFFALO HUNTER [Re: NitroX]
      #328316 - 13/05/19 12:19 PM

In the time of these idiotic debates on Arab Reloading there was once a raffle for a safari where someone was donating a safari or something for a cap buffalo. On the proviso the winner had to use a Marlin .45/70 to "prove it could be done" or some such bullshit. Armchair warrior stuff.

I thought I would do it for a free hunt so entered. I planned to load up the awful tubular magazine with a single 450 Barnes X round and another in the chamber. And push them as fast as sensible. Rather than use those BS Garrett lead bullets pushed as "slow as possible".

Yes Daryl, the .45/70 in a Siamese Mauser is far better than the lever action it is designed for. But why not chamber the Siamese for a better cartridge?

I think the .45/70 is designed for lever actions and single shots. A good medium game close action bush rifle. I have not hunted them, but bear and moose (I have hunted).

Its like saying the 9.3x74R is a good choice for dangerous game. Sure it will kill them and is useful as well. Better than a .45/70 actually IMO. I have taken maybe 13 water buffalo with the 9.3x74R.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Ripp
.577 member


Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: Marlin-1895 -- CAPE BUFFALO HUNTER [Re: NitroX]
      #328336 - 13/05/19 10:53 PM

Quote:

Quote:


It all depends on the scenario when hunting and how amped up there are before the shot..




Or if the shot wounds it, and then a follow up on a worked up and angry cape buffalo is required. Then the .45/70 carrier will wish much for a better rifle.

I think I am going to start pushing the .577/450 as a great buffalo rifle. Same class as the .45/70.






I was thinking the 6.5 Creedmoor could be a good useful all around caliber in Africa??

Chuck Hawks article below .. to further the discussion.. or not..
https://www.chuckhawks.com/rifle_killing_power.htm

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

Edited by Ripp (13/05/19 11:38 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39061
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Marlin-1895 -- CAPE BUFFALO HUNTER [Re: Ripp]
      #328337 - 13/05/19 11:45 PM

Why not? The .256 Mannlicher aka 6.5x54 MS and the .275 Rigby aka 7x57 were great choices for plains game back in the day ...

I do like the 8x68S however for myself if I ever get back there for plains game.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Pages: 1 | 2 | >> (show all)



Extra information
0 registered and 36 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:   

Print Topic

Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled

Rating:
Topic views: 3971

Rate this topic

Jump to

Contact Us NitroExpress.com

Powered by UBB.threads™ 6.5.5


Home | Ezine | Forums | Links | Contact


Copyright 2003 to 2011 - all rights reserved