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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Muzzleloaders & Blackpowder

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cordite
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Loc: NW Montana
werndl flintlock
      #313501 - 05/03/18 10:51 AM

OK, I know flintlocks were sent to africa for many years after they were obsolete everywhere else. Guns that were converted from flintlock to percussion were converted back to flintlock and exported to africa. But I have never seen a centerfire werndl converted to flint. From an auction site.

[image]


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[image]



Edited by cordite (05/03/18 11:05 AM)


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Daryl_SModerator
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Re: werndl flintlock [Re: cordite]
      #313507 - 05/03/18 11:56 AM

That is a WEIRD action for sure. I've never seen a back-action flinter before.

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Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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lancaster
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Re: werndl flintlock [Re: cordite]
      #313518 - 05/03/18 06:20 PM

well, thats a bimbo gun
the werndl was build from the ground as a breechloader so never was a flint look before.




no doubt this was made in Liege for the trade. I have heard those story about warehouses full with old muzzle loader parts still in the 1950s. And it shows how worthless this old blackpowder single shots were once before the great war.



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cordite
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Re: werndl flintlock [Re: lancaster]
      #313525 - 06/03/18 01:21 AM

Thank you lancaster. I have also heard about these old guns being converted in liege for africa. I think Bannerman's used to sell this stuff, back in the 1920s, for just a few dollars a piece.

It would be interesting to learn more about this practice. The economics are fascinating. Someone took an obsolete werndl rifle, removed the barrel and entire rotating breech block assembly, attached a smooth bore barrel, added a flintlock cock and attached a pan, frizzen and spring to the lock. All this to make an even more obsolete rifle whose only merit was no longer being dependant on fixed ammunition.

Just think about a place in the 20th century where a flintlock was preferred over a cartridge rifle and its expensive and hard to obtain ammunition. It would have been easier to convert these to percussion but even the prospect of obtaining percussion caps was not attractive.

Edited by cordite (06/03/18 01:34 AM)


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cordite
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Re: werndl flintlock [Re: cordite]
      #313584 - 07/03/18 03:45 AM

I did a bit more reading about these African trade guns. Sound like it may have been less about what the native users wanted and more about what the colonial administrators would let them have. A gun adequate to defend crops and family from large animals but not so great for armed revolt.

There were also some thought that, in later years, the African trade thing was more of a marketing ploy than actual reality to sell these cheap parts guns in the states.


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Daryl_SModerator
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Re: werndl flintlock [Re: cordite]
      #313585 - 07/03/18 04:19 AM

I had one of these for a while - Zulu 12 bore. My younger daughter shot her first grouse with it. BP load.
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/image...y2MCWqnM40cg_nA
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/image...vCfiV4uhrLFnXvQ

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Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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lancaster
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Re: werndl flintlock [Re: Daryl_S]
      #313987 - 15/03/18 01:26 AM

another bimbo gun for sale











http://egun.de/market/item.php?id=6877593#

bougth by a sailor in the 1970s in the ex belgian congo

here is a similar gun
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/britishm...nversions#p9412

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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lancaster
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Re: werndl flintlock [Re: lancaster]
      #327229 - 13/04/19 02:58 PM

the model 1854 Lorenz rifles musket was one of the last and maybe the best muzzle loader. austria had it in the bad days of the german war in 1866. after this short war muzzle loader of all mayor powers were converted into breech loader or replaced by new rifles.

this lorenz rifle was converted in belgium for the native trade. the percussion lock was changed into a flintlock and the 13,9/14,3 mm rifled barrel was drilled out to 14,3 mm smooth. surprisingly it still have the bayonet:





















https://online.auktion-zwack.de/de/l/312...mp;currentpos=5

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Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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Heelerau
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Re: werndl flintlock [Re: lancaster]
      #328636 - 21/05/19 10:31 PM

I have an old 1960 Stoeger Catalogue with a bunch of Belgian muzzle loading guns, some for the African trade of the 1930's or later, mostly flintlocks. I was fascinated with them as a kid. A Belgian made gun using a lot of original parts has turned up on one of the other websites. 4 balls to the pound and a good solid workaday piece. Never surprises me what turns up around the place. I just acquired a smoothbore in .72 , looks like it is made up from Potzdam parts, all numbered from the same gun, but restocked sometime in the 19th century as a full stock likely as not for the Dutch colonies in South Africa. I had an English version of a pat 42 but Birmingham trade that came from Uno Station which was owned by the Duttons. It was loaded with no 4 shot, a cheap utility gun for around the station, likely for self defence or the odd snake or dingo etc. I used it with success as a kid with patched round ball and shot a lot of rabbits with it, till my late young brother put a charge of Nobels No 69 and blew it apart. He used a piece of string to pull the trigger as he realised he had loaded it wrong in my absence. I still have the lock which I repaired. I got this musket nearly 45 years later to replace it. The original had a rear sight as well. Gordon & Rifle sepia by Gordon Hazel, on Flickr]web page[/url]

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Edited by Heelerau (21/05/19 10:33 PM)


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Daryl_SModerator
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Re: werndl flintlock [Re: Heelerau]
      #328640 - 22/05/19 02:21 AM

Wonderful picture, Grodon.

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Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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lancaster
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Re: werndl flintlock [Re: Daryl_S]
      #328645 - 22/05/19 03:59 AM

picture looks like 1860!

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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