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Ripp
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The 9.3, not the .375 shld be min. caliber for African DG
      #326935 - 07/04/19 05:05 AM

Nine-Three..--by Craig Boddington

The 9.3, not the .375, should really be considered the minimum caliber for dangerous game.

https://sportsafield.com/nine-three/

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DarylS
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Re: The 9.3, not the .375 shld be min. caliber for African DG [Re: Ripp]
      #326940 - 07/04/19 07:16 AM

Basically agree. Some errors, like neither the 9.3x62, nor the 9.3x64 used the 8mm Mauser nor the 30/06 as a parent case.
9.3x62 CAN be made from '06 cases, although there is .006" to .007" difference in nominal base diameter. The 9.3x64, however cannot be made on '06 brass,
due to it's .507" base diameter. This one might be made from .300 mag. brass with the belt turned off, though, with similar error in base diameter to the '06/9.3x62 differences.

This could easily be countered by turning the belt to .507" from .532". The case would then form perfectly.
I did this with the 89x68brass needed for my 9.5x68 wildcat. I turned .375H&H case belts to .522", necked for proper shoulder location and trimmed to 2.660"
and fireformed.
These had some 3gr. MORE powder capacity than the 8x68S RWS cases. they worked a treat in the 9.5x68.

Good article, though. Cannot disagree with his premise that some 9.3's should be added to the Dangerous game list in countries that discriminate against it.

The late Finn Agaard once noted from his experiences, the 9.3x62 duplicated the .375H&H's performance on African Game in his opinion.
We know today, that with today's powders and stronger actions, the 9.3x62 can duplicate & exceed slighlty, the 1912 .375H&H ballistics of 2,400fps with 300's and 2,600fps with 270's.
My 22" bl. factory Oberdorf Mauser exceeded those ballistics.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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93x64mm
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Re: The 9.3, not the .375 shld be min. caliber for African DG [Re: DarylS]
      #326943 - 07/04/19 07:58 AM

Spot on as always Daryl!
Yes Mr Boddington should have known, or most likely he failed to research properly that the 9.3x64mm case is VERY different from the 8mm or 30-06 family of cases.
Mind you his sediments are very well founded, especially now that we have premium convention expanding bullets like Woodleigh or their mono metal hyrdos that make the solids (of which the likes of Taylor and English African game departments based there information on) of old are left well & truly behind when it comes to performance & reliability.
Lines have to be drawn in the sand somewhere, but yes the 9.3's should be allowed as a 'minimum' calibre!
9.3x64mm


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Ripp
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Re: The 9.3, not the .375 shld be min. caliber for African DG [Re: 93x64mm]
      #326951 - 07/04/19 12:19 PM

Quote:

Spot on as always Daryl!
Yes Mr Boddington should have known, or most likely he failed to research properly that the 9.3x64mm case is VERY different from the 8mm or 30-06 family of cases.
Mind you his sediments are very well founded, especially now that we have premium convention expanding bullets like Woodleigh or their mono metal hyrdos that make the solids (of which the likes of Taylor and English African game departments based there information on) of old are left well & truly behind when it comes to performance & reliability.
Lines have to be drawn in the sand somewhere, but yes the 9.3's should be allowed as a 'minimum' calibre!
9.3x64mm




I find it odd you agree with this article??

Have never used one, but plan to change that in 2019...

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Rule303
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Re: The 9.3, not the .375 shld be min. caliber for African DG [Re: 93x64mm]
      #326955 - 07/04/19 01:12 PM

In essence I agree about the 9.3X64 not sure about the X62 being allowed as the minimum for DG. Yes many people have done well with the 9.3X62 but these have been very good shooters. However as one bloke on Cape York who has extensive experience with both on pigs, horse and scrub bulls. In his opinion the 9.3X62 is not a 375H&H.

Some grist for the mill. The 9.3X64 is very much a 375H&H except for the size of the hole it puts in the animal. The 358 Norma would be just as good as the 9.3X64 especially with a 300grain projectile. Pondoro Taylor said he couldn't pick the difference between a 375H&H and a 350Rigby with a 300 grain projectile. The 350Rigby would have been the same as a 35 Whelen back then. So should a 358Norma be the legal minimum?

Edited by Rule303 (08/04/19 09:15 AM)


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: The 9.3, not the .375 shld be min. caliber for African DG [Re: Rule303]
      #326958 - 07/04/19 03:58 PM

When reading the article earlier I too immediately questioned the claim 9.3x64 is based on the .30-06 case ... a much fatter case, and how could one get .375 H&H performance from an '06 case?

No the 9.3x62 is not the same as a .375 H&H. another case oif gun writer calibre creepism.

As for minimum calibre restrictions, the .375 was largely chosen as a client minimum, probably because so many clients can not shoot properly, arriving with rifles just bought hardly or not used, sometimes not even sighted in. How many times do we still read someone buying a .470 NE double rifle for their first African safari and then sell it off immediately afterwards ...

Untold thousands of cape buffalo have been shot in the old days with the wonderful .318 Westley Richards The original ".338/06" shooting .330 calibre 250 gr RN projectiles. Also poor chums unable to afford expensive English rifles used such cartridges as the 8x60S in common Mauser rechambered rifles.

I would make the minimum, a .330 calibre, brass case approximately the length of a .30-06 case, say minimunm of 60 mm, and a minimum 250 gr weight projectile.

Of course when it comes to calibre creepism, I would argue my 8x68S with a 250 gr projectile will outperform a .338/06.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
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"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: The 9.3, not the .375 shld be min. caliber for African DG [Re: NitroX]
      #326959 - 07/04/19 04:16 PM

Quote:

When reading the article earlier I too immediately questioned the claim 9.3x64 is based on the .30-06 case ... a much fatter case, and how could one get .375 H&H performance from an '06 case?

No the 9.3x62 is not the same as a .375 H&H. another case oif gun writer calibre creepism.

As for minimum calibre restrictions, the .375 was largely chosen as a client minimum, probably because so many clients can not shoot properly, arriving with rifles just bought hardly or not used, sometimes not even sighted in. How many times do we still read someone buying a .470 NE double rifle for their first African safari and then sell it off immediately afterwards ...

Untold thousands of cape buffalo have been shot in the old days with the wonderful .318 Westley Richards The original ".338/06" shooting .330 calibre 250 gr RN projectiles. Also poor chums unable to afford expensive English rifles used such cartridges as the 8x60S in common Mauser rechambered rifles.

I would make the minimum, a .330 calibre, brass case approximately the length of a .30-06 case, say minimunm of 60 mm, and a minimum 250 gr weight projectile.

Of course when it comes to calibre creepism, I would argue my 8x68S with a 250 gr projectile will outperform a .338/06.




Of course when the shit hits the fan, none of these pipsqueak calibres are adequate and many users would hope they have a PH to hold their hand for them and do their shooting for them.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
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"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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rigbymauser
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Re: The 9.3, not the .375 shld be min. caliber for African DG [Re: NitroX]
      #326962 - 07/04/19 07:09 PM

Shot a few 9,3mm`s over the years but never used one on a hunt. If wasn`t because I use a .333 using 300grain pills a 9,3x62 would be my obvious choice for a medium bore rifle. Very efficient cartridge and rifles can be build light. Difficult to add anything Mr.Boddington haven`t already stated.

From a vintage doublerifle perspective a .360 No2 or the 9,3x65R(rimmed x64) Brenneke would be interesting.

Edited by rigbymauser (07/04/19 07:16 PM)


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lancaster
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Re: The 9.3, not the .375 shld be min. caliber for African DG [Re: rigbymauser]
      #326964 - 07/04/19 09:17 PM

allways saying the 9,3x64 is the best allround cartridge ever

and better than .375 H&H

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008
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Re: The 9.3, not the .375 shld be min. caliber for African DG [Re: lancaster]
      #326966 - 07/04/19 11:22 PM

I have a double in 9.3x74R and plan to use it on buffalo.

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Postman
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Re: The 9.3, not the .375 shld be min. caliber for African DG [Re: 008]
      #326967 - 07/04/19 11:52 PM

I’ve used my SxS Merkel in 9.3x74R on several caribou and whitetail deer. It works very well and does not generate a tremendous amount of blood shot meat and recoil is present but pleasant. The slower velocity and relatively heavy bullets work wonders. Mine clocks at 2400 FPS using 250 grain TTSX with near single hole regulation at 50 yards..... It will absolutely do the job but I personally think it is on the light side for cape buffalo particularly if things go pear shaped, but a textbook broadside lung shot would without question equal a dead buffalo. I sure would NOT feel comfortable with less than perfect raking shots.

Craig Boddington has about a million more times experience and knowledge than I, so if he says it’s ok for buffalo, then I am not qualified to contradict him, but for me and my skill/experience level, I want just a little more horsepower on tap. As a MINIMUM DG caliber, I expect that it does meet that specification given that is the metric being discussed.


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93x64mm
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Re: The 9.3, not the .375 shld be min. caliber for African DG [Re: lancaster]
      #326975 - 08/04/19 08:00 AM

Quote:

allways saying the 9,3x64 is the best allround cartridge ever

and better than .375 H&H




Lancaster,
we can only keep chipping away at the 'flock' who keep following the 375H&H.
Guess we like something a bit more compact & efficient; & does the job better!

Ripp,
You have a great sense of humour mate - good dig!
The RWS cases for the 9.3x64 can be rather expensive, but they are of the highest quality & have lasted many years & MANY reloads.
Its a shame that more rifle manufacturers don't have it as an option - it seems to be like the forgotten middle child!


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Ripp
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Re: The 9.3, not the .375 shld be min. caliber for African DG [Re: Postman]
      #326978 - 08/04/19 09:19 AM

Quote:

I’ve used my SxS Merkel in 9.3x74R on several caribou and whitetail deer. It works very well and does not generate a tremendous amount of blood shot meat and recoil is present but pleasant. The slower velocity and relatively heavy bullets work wonders. Mine clocks at 2400 FPS using 250 grain TTSX with near single hole regulation at 50 yards..... It will absolutely do the job but I personally think it is on the light side for cape buffalo particularly if things go pear shaped, but a textbook broadside lung shot would without question equal a dead buffalo. I sure would NOT feel comfortable with less than perfect raking shots.

Craig Boddington has about a million more times experience and knowledge than I, so if he says it’s ok for buffalo, then I am not qualified to contradict him, but for me and my skill/experience level, I want just a little more horsepower on tap. As a MINIMUM DG caliber, I expect that it does meet that specification given that is the metric being discussed.



--

Agree--with this and the comments of others on this post.. have used .375H&H along with the .416 Rem on buffalo.. much prefer the .416... YES, they both kill, but, in my experience, the difference is very noticeable...
--


Ripp,
You have a great sense of humour mate - good dig!
The RWS cases for the 9.3x64 can be rather expensive, but they are of the highest quality & have lasted many years & MANY reloads.
Its a shame that more rifle manufacturers don't have it as an option - it seems to be like the forgotten middle child!




YES, and that sense of humor as been getting me in trouble for a very long time now.. all the way back to the nuns at the Catholic School days..
--

BTW--I do see Sako still offers a few models in 9.3x62 as well as a 9.3x66 (sako) caliber..




Edited by Ripp (08/04/19 11:56 AM)


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DarylS
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Re: The 9.3, not the .375 shld be min. caliber for African DG [Re: Ripp]
      #326986 - 08/04/19 10:48 AM

I really don't have any irons in this fire, except having 2, 9.3x62's and a .375/06IMP. If I ever go to Africa, I think I will leave them at home and not take a rifle. Maybe I could borrow someone's bow or rifle while over there. I suspect I could afford to spend a few hundred on a rifle and a couple rounds of ammo. That would make packing & paper work for the trip a LOT simpler - less worry some, as well.

I will note my little '06 cased .375 duplicated a friend's BRNO ZKK602(25" bl.) shooting factory 300gr. Winchester Silver Tips.

The WW load form his BRNO chronographed 2,474fps, while mine went 2,472fps. OK - I concede - mine was 2fps slower from my rifle's 26" bl., however, the average as recorded in my loading manual is 2,474fps.

My rifle also runs 270gr. TTSX's at 2,650fps. I reduced the load by 3 gr. as I felt it was a little warm. Actually made me edgie, as the one round with that load I chronographed 2,740fps.

My factory Oberndorf Mauser 9.3x62 did 2,675fps with 270's. Both of these are close enough to factory .375's to being identical - if decent bullets are used, of course.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Ripp
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Re: The 9.3, not the .375 shld be min. caliber for African DG [Re: DarylS]
      #326987 - 08/04/19 11:33 AM

Quote:

I really don't have any irons in this fire, except having 2, 9.3x62's and a .375/06IMP. If I ever go to Africa, I think I will leave them at home and not take a rifle. Maybe I could borrow someone's bow or rifle while over there. I suspect I could afford to spend a few hundred on a rifle and a couple rounds of ammo. That would make packing & paper work for the trip a LOT simpler - less worry some, as well.




I have been doing that off and on..IF it works out, IMHO, a much easier option... especially if you are hunting plains game.. Also did it when I went to Spain..they had Blaser R8's with Ziess Scopes.. thank God I didn't read the posts on here about the Blaser before I went I probably wouldn't have gotten any game..

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: The 9.3, not the .375 shld be min. caliber for African DG [Re: Ripp]
      #326988 - 08/04/19 12:38 PM

I borrowed one of Karl Stumpfe's Mausers in 8x68S in Namibia to try a 8x68S out. His rifles were above par and excellent.

Some of the client loaner rifles I have seen in various outfitters camps have been horrible.

So if loaning a rifle, make sure you know what you will be getting.

Also on another safari a rifle was supposed to be available for me, I did bring one of my own. No one told the PH so the other rifle was NOT available. It wasn't needed but could have been a huge problem.

So beware if you plan to use a client loaner rifle and be forewarned and prepared.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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Ripp
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Re: The 9.3, not the .375 shld be min. caliber for African DG [Re: NitroX]
      #326996 - 08/04/19 09:36 PM

Quote:

I borrowed one of Karl Stumpfe's Mausers in 8x68S in Namibia to try a 8x68S out. His rifles were above par and excellent.

Some of the client loaner rifles I have seen in various outfitters camps have been horrible.

So if loaning a rifle, make sure you know what you will be getting.

Also on another safari a rifle was supposed to be available for me, I did bring one of my own. No one told the PH so the other rifle was NOT available. It wasn't needed but could have been a huge problem.

So beware if you plan to use a client loaner rifle and be forewarned and prepared.




Exactly..in both cases for myself, I had discussed what was available before I left for the hunt...and yes, it CAN be a nightmare if you are forced to use the "camp gun"..

My good friend Troy, who has done more guided hunts than anyone I personally know--6-8 per year.. used the PH's gun the last couple times to Africa.. worked fine..but has had a few not so good experiences as well..


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ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

Edited by Ripp (08/04/19 10:42 PM)


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DarylS
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Re: The 9.3, not the .375 shld be min. caliber for African DG [Re: Ripp]
      #326999 - 09/04/19 03:19 AM

Interesting, thanks. was talking this over with my wife and she thought our big trip to Australia was the BIG trip. LOL
Maybe, never know.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Ripp
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Re: The 9.3, not the .375 shld be min. caliber for African DG [Re: DarylS]
      #327026 - 09/04/19 03:17 PM

Quote:

Interesting, thanks. was talking this over with my wife and she thought our big trip to Australia was the BIG trip. LOL
Maybe, never know.




Daryl

EVERYONE needs to go to Afica just once

Problem is..its normally not just once..

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Rule303
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Re: The 9.3, not the .375 shld be min. caliber for African DG [Re: Ripp]
      #327043 - 09/04/19 08:12 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Interesting, thanks. was talking this over with my wife and she thought our big trip to Australia was the BIG trip. LOL
Maybe, never know.




Daryl

EVERYONE needs to go to Afica just once

Problem is..its normally not just once..




Ripp you can say that again.


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Ripp
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Re: The 9.3, not the .375 shld be min. caliber for African DG [Re: Rule303]
      #327051 - 09/04/19 11:26 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Interesting, thanks. was talking this over with my wife and she thought our big trip to Australia was the BIG trip. LOL
Maybe, never know.




Daryl

EVERYONE needs to go to Afica just once

Problem is..its normally not just once..




Ripp you can say that again.





Daryl

EVERYONE needs to go to Afica just once

Problem is..its normally not just once..




--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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rigbymauser
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Re: The 9.3, not the .375 shld be min. caliber for African DG [Re: Ripp]
      #327056 - 10/04/19 12:15 AM

Quote:



EVERYONE needs to go to Afica just once

Problem is..its normally not just once..







..nor twice either..:LOL


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DarylS
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Re: The 9.3, not the .375 shld be min. caliber for African DG [Re: rigbymauser]
      #327061 - 10/04/19 01:01 AM

Yeah - my buddy Keith was there just last Sept. and already planning his next trip.

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Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Old_rifle_nut
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Re: The 9.3, not the .375 shld be min. caliber for African DG [Re: DarylS]
      #327220 - 13/04/19 07:31 AM

And just to muddy the waters even further, if the original 310 grain load (S.D. of .346) at 2,000 fps in the 400/350 Rigby was no different, at least in Taylor's opinion, from a .375 H&H load using 300 grain bullets (S.D. of .305) and I get 2,000 fps with my 350 grain BRTORNFPGC WQ'ed bullet (1) (S.D. of .375) in my 9.3x57 (52,000 psi on a M98 action), why would the 9.3x57, at least in that guise, not be satisfactory, using, of course, a custom 0.050" thick jacketed bullet of the same weight?

1) http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=37-355H-D.png

Which is why for heavy stuff, I sold my 2 .375 H&H rifles and 2 9.3x62 chambered rifles, but still have my 3 9.3x57 chambered rifles, plus my .458, of course.


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DarylS
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Re: The 9.3, not the .375 shld be min. caliber for African DG [Re: Old_rifle_nut]
      #327239 - 14/04/19 03:10 AM

Considering the m46A's were chambered for the 8x57, 6.5x55 and 9.3x57, there is no reason they would not handle your load of 350gr.cast FN bullet at 2,000fps and 52,000psi.

That is still 3,000psi under the 6.5x55 and 5,000psi under the 8x57 and 9.3x62 factory rounds.

Then there are the M46's/M96's chambered for .30/06, which is a 60,000psi round.

As factory loaded by Norma, with a 286gr. at 2,050fps, it is rather anemic. However, that load develops something like 34,000cup and 40,000psi, which is quite beneath that round's capability.

I ran jacketed 300gr. Hornady's (Coreloct and Interbond) sized down to fit, at 2,170fps, just about duplicating 9.3x62's original 286gr. load for speed.


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AZDAVE
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Re: The 9.3, not the .375 shld be min. caliber for African DG [Re: DarylS]
      #327955 - 02/05/19 02:43 AM

I have shot more game in africa with a 9.3 (62 and 74R) that all my other calibres put together.
What one should remember is that neither the 375 or the 9.3x??? are killing calibre medium bores not a stopping calibres!!! That said the PH would rather have a 9.3 or 375 bullet in the vitals or a DG animal that a shot to the guts with any big bore.

In my opinion the 9.3 should be used my a shooter that is a very good shot and won't take a marginal shot and wait for correct shot placement in the vitals.


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DarylS
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Re: The 9.3, not the .375 shld be min. caliber for African DG [Re: AZDAVE]
      #327958 - 02/05/19 02:48 AM

You are not alone in your thinking Dave.

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Daryl


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szihn
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Re: The 9.3, not the .375 shld be min. caliber for African DG [Re: DarylS]
      #327962 - 02/05/19 06:21 AM

I got onto the 9.3 bandwagon late. I had a 375H&H when I was 22 years old and I have killed a LOT of game with it, and shot it even for varminting, just to stay proficient with it. I shot the 1st barrel out of the gun and had to re-barrel it about 15 years ago. Overall I have absolutely no criticisms of it at all. From rabbits to buffalo I have never found myself wanting more.

So when I started to use (and see used) the 9.3X62 and the 9.3X74R I was quite surprised and impressed. So far I can't say I am seeing any real difference between how these two 9.3s kill and what I have seen from my 375 for 42 years, but the 9.3 holds 2 more rounds and kicks less. Maybe on a large enough animal I could see some, but up to moose and bison I'd say they work equally well.

Now I own four 9.3s. Two 9.3X57s, one 9.3X74R and one 9.3X62.

Safe to say I have come to really like the way they work for me.

Edited by szihn (02/05/19 06:23 AM)


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Re: The 9.3, not the .375 shld be min. caliber for African DG [Re: szihn]
      #327965 - 02/05/19 09:21 AM

Interesting, Steve. I had my first .375 H&H in about 1973- age 23. I had a .358 Norma Mag. at age 21, pulled the barrel and put on the 602 .375 I paid $100.00 for, unfired. My .358 bl. came off and the .375 screwed right one, sights straight up and down, headspace perfect or close enough.
Like a fool, sold it so I could build a .308 match rifle. did well, with that, though. 1st Unclassified then 1st Master in two Cross Canada Matches.

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Re: The 9.3, not the .375 shld be min. caliber for African DG [Re: DarylS]
      #328927 - 28/05/19 11:47 AM

He's wrong on two counts. Besides the error on the cartridge cases, 9.3mm is legal for dangerous game in Africa, at least in Zimbabwe. The stipulation is 5300 joules energy, which rules out all but the Brenneke Cartridge.

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Re: The 9.3, not the .375 shld be min. caliber for African DG [Re: rscott]
      #328929 - 28/05/19 01:21 PM

5300 joules is only 3,910fpe.
Both Steve and I run 2,520fps with 286gr
In our 9.3x62's
That's well about 4,050fpe. As well, I run 2,675fps with 270s, also well over 4,000fpe but I don't know of any that aren't crap in 9.3.
These ballistics were in my Oberndorf Mauser sporter.

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Edited by Daryl_S (28/05/19 01:23 PM)


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Re: The 9.3, not the .375 shld be min. caliber for African DG [Re: DarylS]
      #328939 - 28/05/19 09:54 PM

I got that figure from memory and tried to verify it, But Zimparks hasn't updated their website since 2017.
Zim. is actually 9.2mm, i would guess to allow the old 360 nitro cartridge.
there are other countries with no requirements at all if I remember correctly. Mozambique, Ethiopia, Benin and a couple others.
Another case of a writer having to produce 2500 words to get paid.


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Re: The 9.3, not the .375 shld be min. caliber for African DG [Re: rscott]
      #328960 - 29/05/19 09:09 AM

Zimbabwe
• Class A Game
5300 Joule
Minimum caliber 9.2mm in diameter
(Elephant, Hippo, Buffalo)
• Class B Game
4300 Joule
Minimum caliber 7.0mm in diameter
(Lion, Giraffe, Eland)
• Class C Game
3000 Joule
Minimum caliber 7.0mm in diameter
(Leopard, Crocodile, Kudu, Oryx / Gemsbok, Hartebeest, Wildebeest, Zebra, Nyala, Sable Antelope, Waterbuck, Tsessebe, etc.)
• Class D Game
850 Joule
Minimum caliber 5.56mm in diameter
(Warthog, Impala, Reedbuck, Sitatunga, Duiker, Steenbok, Jackal, Game Birds, etc.)
• Black Powder Rifles
Minimum caliber .40

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Re: The 9.3, not the .375 shld be min. caliber for African DG [Re: Ripp]
      #328961 - 29/05/19 09:10 AM

Benin
• There is no minimum equipment requirement for rifle hunting in Benin.
• Benin does not require a minimum energy (Eo - muzzle velocity) for calibers used.

Botswana
• The minimum equipment requirement for rifle hunting in Botswana is .222 caliber for any game other than dangerous game.
• The minimum equipment requirement for rifle hunting in Botswana is .375 caliber for dangerous game or big game hunting.
• The maximum equipment allowed for rifle hunting in Botswana is .577 Nitro Express caliber.
• Botswana does not require a minimum energy (Eo - muzzle velocity) for calibers used.

Burkina Faso
• There is no minimum equipment requirement for rifle hunting in Burkina Faso.
• Burkina Faso does not require a minimum energy (Eo - muzzle velocity) for calibers used.

Cameroon
• For Group 1 - Small Game, the equipment requirement for hunting is .240 caliber or less, shotgun may be used as well.
• For Group 2 - Medium Game, the equipment requirement for hunting is .240 to .354 caliber.
• For Group 3 - Big Game, the equipment requirement for hunting is .354 caliber or larger.
• Cameroon does not require a minimum energy (Eo - muzzle velocity) for calibers used.

Central African Republic
• The minimum equipment requirement for rifle hunting in Central African Republic is .375 caliber for dangerous game or big game hunting.
• Central African Republic does not require a minimum energy (Eo - muzzle velocity) for calibers used.

Ethiopia
• There is no minimum equipment requirement for rifle hunting in Ethiopia.
• Ethiopia does not require a minimum energy (Eo - muzzle velocity) for calibers used.

Mozambique
• There is no minimum equipment requirement for rifle hunting in Mozambique.
• Mozambique does not require a minimum energy (Eo - muzzle velocity) for calibers used.

Namibia
• Smallest caliber allowed 7 mm (.284).
• Minimum energy (Eo - muzzle velocity)
• Big Game
5400 Joule
(Elephant, Cape Buffalo, Rhino, Lion, etc.)
• Large Game
2700 Joule
(Greater Kudu, Cape Eland, Oryx / Gemsbok, Red Hartebeest, Blue Wildebeest, Black Wildebeest, Hartmann's Zebra, Burchell's Zebra, Giraffe, Sable Antelope, Roan Antelope, Waterbuck, Tsessebe, Leopard, etc.)
• Medium to Small Game
1350 Joule
(Springbok, Impala, Blesbok, Gray Duiker, Steenbok, Ostrich, Caracal, Black-Faced Impala, Red Lechwe, Damara Dik-Dik, Klipspringer, Black-Backed Jackal, Warthog, Cheetah, Nyala, Chacma Baboon, Game Birds, etc.)

South Africa
• Most provinces do not have a minimum equipment requirement for rifle hunting and rely on common sense.
• Some provinces require a minimum of .375 caliber for dangerous or big game hunting.
• No provinces require a minimum energy (Eo - muzzle velocity) for calibers used.

Tanzania
• The minimum equipment requirement for rifle hunting in Tanzania is .240 caliber for any game other than dangerous game.
• The minimum equipment requirement for rifle hunting in Tanzania is .375 caliber for dangerous game or big game hunting.
• Tanzania does not require a minimum energy (Eo - muzzle velocity) for calibers used.

Zambia
• Zambia does not have a minimum equipment requirement for rifle hunting plains game and rely on common sense. Caliber in the .270 range will be well suited for some of the smaller plains game in Zambia.
• The minimum equipment requirement for rifle hunting in Zambia is .300 caliber for dangerous game such as Leopard and Lion.
• The minimum equipment requirement for rifle hunting in Zambia is .375 caliber for dangerous game or big game hunting such as Elephant, Buffalo and Hippo.
• Zambia does not require a minimum energy (Eo - muzzle velocity) for calibers used.

Zimbabwe
• Class A Game
5300 Joule
Minimum caliber 9.2mm in diameter
(Elephant, Hippo, Buffalo)
• Class B Game
4300 Joule
Minimum caliber 7.0mm in diameter
(Lion, Giraffe, Eland)
• Class C Game
3000 Joule
Minimum caliber 7.0mm in diameter
(Leopard, Crocodile, Kudu, Oryx / Gemsbok, Hartebeest, Wildebeest, Zebra, Nyala, Sable Antelope, Waterbuck, Tsessebe, etc.)
• Class D Game
850 Joule
Minimum caliber 5.56mm in diameter
(Warthog, Impala, Reedbuck, Sitatunga, Duiker, Steenbok, Jackal, Game Birds, etc.)
• Black Powder Rifles
Minimum caliber .40

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Re: The 9.3, not the .375 shld be min. caliber for African DG [Re: Ripp]
      #328962 - 29/05/19 09:11 AM

Joules conversion to ft-lbs

http://www.unitconversion.org/energy/joules-to-foot-pounds-conversion.html

5300 Joule
3909 ft-lbs

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Re: The 9.3, not the .375 shld be min. caliber for African DG [Re: Ripp]
      #328964 - 29/05/19 09:26 AM

The program app I have on my phone is Unit Converter.
It is handy for everything from:

area,
cooking,
digital storage,
energy,
fuel consumption,
length/distance,
mass/weight,
power,
pressure,
speed,
temperature,
time,
torque &
volume.

I have found it to be an excellent app.

--------------------
Daryl


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Re: The 9.3, not the .375 shld be min. caliber for African DG [Re: DarylS]
      #328967 - 29/05/19 12:11 PM

Quote:

5300 joules is only 3,910fpe.
Both Steve and I run 2,520fps with 286gr
In our 9.3x62's
That's well about 4,050fpe. As well, I run 2,675fps with 270s, also well over 4,000fpe but I don't know of any that aren't crap in 9.3.
These ballistics were in my Oberndorf Mauser sporter.




That's pretty impressive velocity for a 62!
Highest velocity I've seen in published data is ~2400 FPS with a 26" bl. I would be curious to see pressure figures for your loads at 2520 FPS.


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Re: The 9.3, not the .375 shld be min. caliber for African DG [Re: Ripp]
      #328972 - 29/05/19 06:33 PM

Thanks for the info RIPP. Interesting how many countries have no requirement at all.

Matt.

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Re: The 9.3, not the .375 shld be min. caliber for African DG [Re: Waidmannsheil]
      #328978 - 30/05/19 12:57 AM

rscott - according to kwk.us/pressures.html site:
CIP states:

9.3x62 57 psi(pezio) 49 (copper crusher cip/cup)

According to other cartridges of this type, US made such as the .338/06IMP and .270 Winchester, the allowable pressure is 65,000psi, thus I/we are not restricted to 1925 pressure limitations imposed by Euro law. At that site, there are no SAAMI "standards" (not law) applied to this round.

I do not know what the pressures are, however, I still using brass I made for this calibre and rifle, back in 1982. It has been shot at least 8, perhaps 10 times and I am still using it, primer pockets still tight.

As to case capacity, I measured mine at 78gr. water for Fed and RP brass and 80gr. for WW, using .30/06 brass, as well as a couple factory cases from Sako I have that were fired in a Styer rifle in moose camp. Both these rifles have .454" shoulders and .474" bases.
This is the same capacity as my .375/06IMP, made with an arch reamer, I think, due to it's .460" shoulder and .471" base.

I agree, knowing what the pressures ACTUALLY are, would indeed be interesting. The ballistics I am getting out of my .375/06IMP are rather startling as well.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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dotchicco
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Re: The 9.3, not the .375 shld be min. caliber for African DG [Re: DarylS]
      #329385 - 15/06/19 01:51 AM

Good Afternoon,
Always interestig to read about my dear 9,3.
I own all three the bad children.. x62, x74R, and last but not least x64.
Hard to say what's my favourite, probably the pestiferous x64.
I started using a double in 9,3x74R and immediately i falled in love with the caliber. As many other times, i tryied to improve it, using better powders, better bullets, but in the end the philosophy is the same: heavy soft bullet, mild velocity, terrible penetration, wide wound, game on the floor. Probably the two thing that surpised me more were its simplicity (works well with any bullet, heavy or light, hard or soft) and that litterally digests any kind of powder with always the same good result. Really a work horse. Easy to reload, easy to shot, rarely requires a follow shot.
After this experience i found a nice CZ full stock at an armory.
I took it without many hopes... i know how squeamish the stutzen can be. And that short barrel made me think bad... Instead that nice light rifle, that could seem a toy, is an hammer.
It prefer light bullets, but shot well also heavy. I have developed a superb load with ks bullet, and i have used it on light framed game, (roe deer) and bigger game (boars and deers)
Always impressive. I do not have experience with african big game, but every 9.3 user just talk well about it.
Last winter i found (finally!) a Mauser Europa in 9,3x64. It was new! the gun smith told me that the old owner ( now 70 years old ) used it on two safarys, and then left it in the blind for decades.
The bolt face had no signs, the barrel seems to be virgin. Probably has shot 30/40 bullets... Well, i started looking for the perfect load... first choice was the H mantel bullet, really accurate and constant. Then i tryied teilmantel, KS, and Woodleight 250 bullets. Everytime i had good accuracy, with light, medium and heavy load.
The most impressive thing is the extreme flexibility of this caliber. You can easily obtain x74R velocity, or pass to a mild charge duplicating x62 performance, or increase the energy, reaching more then 6000 joule of energy (in this case i found the RS60 is the standard to beat).
RWS has recently released a new ammunition with lead free 180 grains bullet (evo green), with the same ballistic of the 8x68S with H mantel. This could make this outstanding caliber even more usefull for light game at long range.
It's really a shame that nowadays no one gunmaker (except Voere) still has this caliber in catalogue.
Excuse this long digression... but as you can understand i'm a big fan of theese three fine calibers...
Doc

Edited by dotchicco (15/06/19 02:19 AM)


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Re: The 9.3, not the .375 shld be min. caliber for African DG [Re: dotchicco]
      #329387 - 15/06/19 05:58 AM

Hit the nail right on the head there Doc!
Terrible shame that the 9.3x64 is the forgotten child when it comes to being chambered in rifles.
Not wrong about its versatility, I have a reduced .444 equivalent load that shoots very accurately - bores straight thru pigs end to end!
The full loads are certainly another big step up from that.
Glad to have you on board Doc!
93x64mm


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Re: The 9.3, not the .375 shld be min. caliber for African DG [Re: DarylS]
      #329389 - 15/06/19 01:32 PM

9.3x62 is excellent for the largest soft skin (plains) game but I wouldn't rely on it for DG if I ever had the opportunity.

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Ripp
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Re: The 9.3, not the .375 shld be min. caliber for African DG [Re: tophet1]
      #329398 - 15/06/19 11:49 PM

Greatest Cartridges: 9.3×62 Mauser, Effective on About Everything

https://gundigest.com/gear-ammo/reloadin...bout-everything

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Ripp
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Re: The 9.3, not the .375 shld be min. caliber for African DG [Re: Ripp]
      #329399 - 15/06/19 11:53 PM


THE 9.3×64 BRENNEKE, GERMANY’S ANSWER TO THE 375 HOLLAND AND HOLLAND MAGNUM

https://revivaler.com/the-9-3x64-brenneke-germanys-answer-to-the-375-holland-and-holland-magnum/

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Re: The 9.3, not the .375 shld be min. caliber for African DG [Re: Ripp]
      #329401 - 16/06/19 03:58 AM

The .366 caliber cartridges are excellent!!! I love my .375 H&H and the .375 Flanged Magnum, but I love them no more (nor less than) the 9.3 x74R...... They are all excellent hunting cartridges, but I still prefer to step up just a little in power for DG hunting. Call me what you will, but I’d rather pile on a bit more power and be accused of “compensating for something”, rather than being stomped and gored into a puddle of bloody mud by a pissed off big dangerous animal.

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Ripp
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Re: The 9.3, not the .375 shld be min. caliber for African DG [Re: Postman]
      #329402 - 16/06/19 05:21 AM

I see Sako still makes 9.3x62 and 9.3x66...

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dotchicco
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Re: The 9.3, not the .375 shld be min. caliber for African DG [Re: Ripp]
      #329403 - 16/06/19 07:25 AM

All european gun maker have 9,3x62 or 9,3x74R in theyr catalogue.
But only voere still produces 9,3x64.
And of course a lot of gun craftmens .
9,3x66 is a strange thing.. It was intended, maybe, to fill the gap between x64 and x62.. But it's only chambered in sako and tikka rifle, only in short barrels, Max 56 cm...

Way the hell?

Edited by dotchicco (16/06/19 07:28 AM)


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Ripp
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Re: The 9.3, not the .375 shld be min. caliber for African DG [Re: dotchicco]
      #329410 - 17/06/19 12:15 AM

Quote:

All european gun maker have 9,3x62 or 9,3x74R in theyr catalogue.
But only voere still produces 9,3x64.
And of course a lot of gun craftmens .
9,3x66 is a strange thing.. It was intended, maybe, to fill the gap between x64 and x62.. But it's only chambered in sako and tikka rifle, only in short barrels, Max 56 cm...

Way the hell?




Makes no sense to me either... who knows the reasoning.. ???

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szihn
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Re: The 9.3, not the .375 shld be min. caliber for African DG [Re: Ripp]
      #329415 - 17/06/19 10:16 AM

The 9.3X64 is superb, but I expect US Gun makers do not make any because they believe (maybe rightfully) that the 9.3X64 would never sell sitting next to a 375H&H.

I think they are wrong, but I have to admit, it would be a gamble. The ammo makers (and brass makers) are probably the real issue here. Most of the existing US made rifles can be easily reworked to feed the big 9.3, so the guns are not a problem, but getting someone to commit to tool up for the cases may be a gamble they just do not want to take. The logic would run something like this:

The 375 does it all, and has done so very well on the US market since Winchester first chambered it in their M70. So to get the same performance in a new-to-our-market cartridge is not worth the gamble.

Still I like the big 9.3 because it does what the 375 will do, and can be made to hold 1-2 more rounds in the mag and requires less work to modify an action and bolt fact to use it too. I have used the 375 a lot, and I have zero bad to say about it. So saying another shell will give the same results is very high praise in my mind.
I have seen the 9.3X62 used quite a few times in the last 8-9 years and I have shot a few round myself from that shell, and I have personally used the 9.3X74R a lot more, and seen excellent results when I use good bullets. The 9.3X64 beats both of these shells by about 100-200 FPS, so again, given bullet that will not shatter, I am 100% sure it would be excellent because to be perfectly frank, I can't see a lot of difference in the kills from a 375H&H, a 9.3X62 and a 9.3X74R, so I see no reason the 9.3X64 would not be as good.

Edited by szihn (17/06/19 10:19 AM)


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dotchicco
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Re: The 9.3, not the .375 shld be min. caliber for African DG [Re: szihn]
      #329420 - 17/06/19 10:20 PM

Quote:


I have seen the 9.3X62 used quite a few times in the last 8-9 years and I have shot a few round myself from that shell, and I have personally used the 9.3X74R a lot more, and seen excellent results when I use good bullets. The 9.3X64 beats both of these shells by about 100-200 FPS, so again, given bullet that will not shatter, I am 100% sure it would be excellent because to be perfectly frank, I can't see a lot of difference in the kills from a 375H&H, a 9.3X62 and a 9.3X74R, so I see no reason the 9.3X64 would not be as good.




I'd add that .366 bullet has higher bc and better sectional density, for the same weight.
So considering that today powders have increased 9,3x64 energy at a superior level (6000 joule) that today bullets are comfortable with high velocity (A frame, woodleight PP and solids, oryx and many monolithics ) that all the weapons around chambering the old brenneke's beast are high quality gun, ( while .375 H& H often are low price with poor ergonomy and lightweight)
We can assure that today it's absolutely superior if compared to 1950's .375 performance.
I Think that only using the 9,3x64 a shooter can really understand its value.
Doc


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Re: The 9.3, not the .375 shld be min. caliber for African DG [Re: dotchicco]
      #329443 - 18/06/19 02:33 PM

Hey guys

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Ripp
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Re: The 9.3, not the .375 shld be min. caliber for African DG [Re: dotchicco]
      #329449 - 19/06/19 01:06 AM

Quote:

Quote:


I have seen the 9.3X62 used quite a few times in the last 8-9 years and I have shot a few round myself from that shell, and I have personally used the 9.3X74R a lot more, and seen excellent results when I use good bullets. The 9.3X64 beats both of these shells by about 100-200 FPS, so again, given bullet that will not shatter, I am 100% sure it would be excellent because to be perfectly frank, I can't see a lot of difference in the kills from a 375H&H, a 9.3X62 and a 9.3X74R, so I see no reason the 9.3X64 would not be as good.




I'd add that .366 bullet has higher bc and better sectional density, for the same weight.
So considering that today powders have increased 9,3x64 energy at a superior level (6000 joule) that today bullets are comfortable with high velocity (A frame, woodleight PP and solids, oryx and many monolithics ) that all the weapons around chambering the old brenneke's beast are high quality gun, ( while .375 H& H often are low price with poor ergonomy and lightweight)
We can assure that today it's absolutely superior if compared to 1950's .375 performance.
I Think that only using the 9,3x64 a shooter can really understand its value.
Doc




All good points... and agree...thank you for your information


Ripp

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Re: The 9.3, not the .375 shld be min. caliber for African DG [Re: Ripp]
      #329474 - 19/06/19 03:36 PM

Quote:

Greatest Cartridges: 9.3×62 Mauser, Effective on About Everything

https://gundigest.com/gear-ammo/reloadin...bout-everything




Greatest Cartridges: 9.3×62 Mauser, Effective on About Everything
By Tom Turpin -September 5, 2014020205



Norma Oryx Soft Point 9.3×62 Muser cartridge cartridges. Photo: Arz.

In the late nineteenth century and well into the twentieth, the continental Europeans and the United Kingdom were busy expanding their spheres of influence around the world. No continent experienced these expansions more than Africa.

The Dutch were busy in South Africa, the Portuguese in Mozambique, the Belgians in Zaire, the English in Kenya and Rhodesia, the French in Central African Republic and the Germans in Namibia and Tanzania as primary conquests. Most had a few other involvements as well.

The English produced heavy caliber rifles as well as ammunition for them, suitable for the largest and most dangerous game the Dark Continent had to offer. Alas, while the UK products were excellent and reliable, they were quite expensive, out of the budget range for the average farmer/colonist.





The German colonists living in German SW Africa and German East Africa were very active in complaining to the home country for their need for affordable rifles and ammunition suitable for use against Africa’s big and dangerous game animals.

Germany was already producing what was to become the best bolt-action rifle available with their Mauser Model 98. They just didn’t have a powerful enough cartridge to fit in a standard Model 98 length, to do battle against Africa’s dangerous fauna.


Early in the twentieth century, a gunsmith by the name of Otto Bock, took on the task of developing such a cartridge. In 1905, he introduced the results of his developmental efforts, the 9.3×62mm cartridge – also known as the 9.3×62 Mauser.

The cartridge featured a 9.3mm bullet diameter (.366”) loaded into a 62mm long rimless case. The cartridge was originally loaded with a 285-grain bullet with a muzzle velocity of 2150 fps. It fit nicely in a Mauser 98 action, and operation and feeding was excellent. Later, the cartridge was juiced up a bit, and loaded primarily with a 286-grain bullet with a muzzle velocity of around 2400 fps.


The CIP established a Maximum Average Pressure of 56,500 psi. In modern strong rifles, there is no reason that it could not be safely loaded to 60,000 psi, providing around 2500 fps, if such was deemed desirable. The cartridge became exceeding popular in Europe and in Africa, and still is today.

On this side of the Atlantic though, it scarcely ruffled a feather. Until recently, the last five years or so, no American manufacturer made a rifle for it, no American ammunition company loaded ammo for it, and the major American reloading components folks offered neither bullets nor brass for the 9.3×62. If someone happened to have a rifle so chambered, he was totally dependent upon European sources for loaded ammunition and components.

Things have changed considerably in the past few years. Thanks largely to the efforts of writers like John Barsness, Chub Eastman, Phil Shoemaker, and to a much lesser extent, my modest efforts, the cartridge is gaining popularity by leaps and bounds. And, well it should. It is one hell of a cartridge.



The 9.3x62mm (left) compared to a number of popular rifle cartridges. Next in line from the left: .30-06 Springfield, 8×57 IS, 6.5×55, .308 Winchester. Photo: Kalashnikov

Even old John “Pondoro” Taylor, Anglophil that he was, even had good things to say about the 9.3×62 cartridge. He wrote in African Rifles and Cartridges, “I have never heard any complaints about the 9.3mm. Its penetration is adequate for anything. It has never had the write-up that certain other calibers received from time to time. Men just take it for granted and it goes steadily on its way like some honest old farm horse. In spite of all the more modern magnums and ‘supers,’ the 9.3mm still remains the favorite medium bore of many experienced hunters.”

Today, factory loaded ammunition is available from Federal, Barnes, Hornady, Nosler, and I believe that Winchester has been loading it for some time for European consumption, but, to my knowledge, none has been sold in this country. Bullets are available from a variety of bullet makers in weights from 232 grain (Norma) to a whopping 320 grains (Woodleigh) and about every stop in-between those extremes.

I can’t imagine a better cartridge for chasing elk in heavy timber, rooting a mad brown bear out of the alders, or laying on the winters meat supply by taking a moose in the willows. There is no whiz-bang about the cartridge.


As Pondoro Taylor put it, it’s just a workhorse of cartridges, effective and useful on about anything.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

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Re: The 9.3, not the .375 shld be min. caliber for African DG [Re: Ripp]
      #329475 - 19/06/19 03:52 PM

Quote:


THE 9.3×64 BRENNEKE, GERMANY’S ANSWER TO THE 375 HOLLAND AND HOLLAND MAGNUM

https://revivaler.com/the-9-3x64-brenneke-germanys-answer-to-the-375-holland-and-holland-magnum/




THE 9.3×64 BRENNEKE, GERMANY’S ANSWER TO THE 375 HOLLAND AND HOLLAND MAGNUM
Cartridges, Main, Rifles Permalink


(Note: This post was updated with additional information on 7th April 2015).

The 9.3x64mm Brenneke is, in my mind at least, one of the top two cartridges for the “one rifle world wide hunter”. There are only two factors that put it in second place to the 375 Holland and Holland Magnum. The first being that there are a small number of African nations where the .375″ bullet is the legal minimum for large dangerous game: The second being that both ammunition and re-loading information for the 375H&H Magnum is much more common than for the 9.3×64 Brenneke.

https://revivaler.com/wp-content/uploads...forum.net_.jpeg
[image][/image]

An older and now obsolete loading for the 9.3×64 Brenneke is the 18.5 gram Teil Mantle (soft point). Though not clearly visible in this picture the junction of the jacket and lead core had a defined ridge perhaps designed to create a wad-cutter effect. (Picture courtesy of vadaszforum.net)

Nonetheless the 9.3×64 Brenneke is by no means either an obsolete or a rare cartridge on the world stage, although it is likely to be uncommon in the United States. In fact two Steyr Mannlicher Model S rifles I had the pleasure of examining in a gun shop in Jakarta in 1975 were both chambered for the 9.3×64 Brenneke and the rifles were intended to be used for deer stalking. So, although the caliber might be less common in the USA, Nosler provide excellent loading data for use with their 250 grain “AccuBond”, 286 grain Spitzer Partition, and 286 grain Solid bullets.





Nosler’s web site is well worth visiting; they provide re-loading data on-line and free. The data can be downloaded in PDF format and/or printed so you have a permanent record, and, of course, Nosler bullets are second to none in the world. You can find this data for the 9.3×64 Brenneke if you click here. Linked to that page are all the calibers for which Nosler provide free re-loading data.

Just that set of loading data for the superb Nosler bullets would really be enough to tackle pretty much anything from deer on up on planet earth with a 9.3×64 Brenneke, but additional data is out there. There is additional free re-loading data available for those interested in searching the web for it. Additional data can be found on an Italian language site here for example. Just be aware that re-loading data found on unknown web sites needs to be checked for reliability against other sources. Data from a company such as Nosler however can be trusted as reliable. This makes the data above as published by Nosler particularly valuable.

Another reliable source of data is the web site of Brenneke Ammunition GMBH who provide both loaded ammunition and bullets for Wilhelm Brenneke’s original cartridges plus some others more familiar to those in the USA and Canada such as the 7mm Remington Magnum, the 300 Winchester Magnum and the 375 Holland and Holland Magnum. Brenneke Ammunition GMBH also provide factory reloading data including for the 9.3×64 Brenneke.



You will find information on the cartridges Brenneke make if you click here.

You will find reloading data for Brenneke cartridges and for a number of calibers familiar to USA and Canada shooters if you click here.

The data and brochures are in PDF format and you can download them freely if you click here.

How does the 9.3×64 Brenneke stack up against the 375 Holland and Holland Magnum? Does it really deserve equal status with the 375H&H Magnum? To answer that let’s look at the entries for both cartridges as published by RWS of Germany.



The 9.3×64 Brenneke and the 375 Holland and Holland Magnum as they compare in the RWS catalog.

As you can see from the above data the 9.3×64 Brenneke drives a 293 grain Uni Classic bullet at 2575fps (785m/s) by comparison with the 375 Holland and Holland Magnum which drives a 301 grain Uni Classic bullet at 2493fps (760m/s). Thus the 9.3×64 Brenneke starts out a near equal bullet weight, with a much higher Ballistic Coefficient, at slightly higher muzzle velocity, to deliver more energy at the muzzle, and as we move downrange to 300 meters the difference becomes even more marked in the 9.3×64 Brenneke’s favor. The two cartridges are very closely matched in performance. I’d feel adequately equipped to face any game animal on earth armed with a rifle chambered for either one of them.

The 9.3x64mm Brenneke is one of those lesser known but absolutely superb calibers that deserves to be far more popular than it currently is. It is most commonly found chambered in top quality European rifles and is, as I said in the beginning of this post, one of my top two cartridges for the “world wide one rifle hunter”. What you choose may ultimately depend on what is available in the rifle of your choice.



A beautiful Mannlicher-Schönauer M72 Model S chambered for the 9.3×64 Brenneke offered for sale on milanuncios.com recently.


Jon C. Branch
Jon Branch is the founder and senior editor of Revivaler and has written a significant number of articles for various publications including official Buying Guides for eBay, classic car articles for Hagerty, magazine articles for both the Australian Shooters Journal and the Australian Shooter, and he’s a long time contributor to Silodrome.

Jon has done radio, television, magazine and newspaper interviews on various issues, and has traveled extensively, having lived in Britain, Australia, China and Hong Kong. His travels have taken him to Indonesia, Israel, Italy, Japan and a number of other countries. He has studied the Japanese sword arts and has a long history of involvement in the shooting sports, which has included authoring submissions to government on various firearms related issues and assisting in the design and establishment of shooting ranges.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

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Re: The 9.3, not the .375 shld be min. caliber for African DG [Re: Ripp]
      #329476 - 19/06/19 04:04 PM

Quote:

Nine-Three..--by Craig Boddington

The 9.3, not the .375, should really be considered the minimum caliber for dangerous game.

https://sportsafield.com/nine-three/






NINE-THREE
– by Craig Boddington
The 9.3, not the .375, should really be considered the minimum caliber for dangerous game.
It’s a longstanding article of faith that the .375 is the legal minimum for Africa’s thick-skinned dangerous game. This has been the “letter of the law” in some African jurisdictions, but in many cases, it is simply not true. Some African countries have no caliber stipulations at all. The most rigid I know of was the rule imposed by the East African Professional Hunters Association (EAPHA) that imposed a .40-caliber minimum for elephant, rhino, and hippo throughout the British sphere. This restriction essentially went away when the EAPHA formally disbanded in late 1977, following the closure of hunting in Kenya.

In most countries that have actual caliber (or cartridge) requirements, the more common minimum is not .375 but its European equivalent, the 9.3mm (caliber .366). Zimbabwe has perhaps the most complex rules, stating minimum energy requirements for various classes of game. Sounds good, but in the game laws these are expressed in the European kilojoules of energy, inexplicable to we non-metric Americans. Some years back the minimum energy requirement for “buffalo and larger” game fell right at the .375 H&H level, or about 4,000 foot-pounds of energy. The late Don Heath was in charge of Zimbabwe’s rigorous PH testing and licensing. Don was a staunch 9.3mm fan; twenty years ago he rewrote Zimbabwe’s game laws so that the minimum energy requirement for the largest game would include the 9.3x62mm Mauser and 9.3x74R, which produce a bit over 3,500 foot-pounds with the standard 286-grain bullet.



Boddington’s Sabatti 9.3x74R double groups inside of two inches at 100 yards, making it an effective and useful 200-yard double rifle. 93x74R doubles tend to be much less costly than big-bore doubles and can be built very light. This rifle weighs about seven pounds.

I believe strongly in the old adage to “use enough gun” for dangerous game. However, regardless of exactly how the law is written, common sense must be applied. Should a “.375 minimum” include the .375 Winchester, 250-grain bullet at 1,900 feet per second (fps) for barely 2,000 foot-pounds of energy? I think not! Most such rules clearly exclude the fast .33s which, with heavy-for-caliber bullets of 250 grains and more can develop well in excess of 4,000 foot-pounds of energy. Especially with the great bullets available today, I can assure you a .338 Winchester Magnum, Remington Ultra Mag, or Lapua is plenty adequate for buffalo. The same can be said of “fast .35s” with heavy bullets, such as the .358 Norma Magnum and .350 Rigby. However, regardless of theoretical adequacy, these may not be strictly legal.

Local game laws must be followed, even if they don’t always make perfect sense, and it’s not a bad idea to factor in conventional wisdom based on generations of experience. Not all of us are even amateur ballisticians. It’s perfectly OK to consider .375 as a sensible minimum for Africa’s largest game, but you need to think “.375 H&H” level of power. Included would be the .375 Flanged Magnum (the rimmed version for doubles) and the .376 Steyr (developed around Jeff Cooper’s “big bore Scout Rifle”). Both are slower than the .375 H&H, but can approach 4,000 foot-pounds, so are certainly adequate for buffalo. Excluded would be “mild .375s” like the .375 Winchester and the old 9.5x57mm Mannlicher-Schoenauer.

I’m perfectly fine with considering the 9.3mm as an alternative minimum standard. But, as with the .375, it’s important to understand which 9.3mm cartridges we’re talking about. Starting around 1900, the 9.3mm (.366-inch) became a standard and popular European bullet diameter. Cartridges of the Worldlists seven 9.3mm cartridges introduced early in the twentieth century. To this list must be added the .370 Sako Magnum (European designation 9.3x66mm), introduced into the U.S. in 2008 as a joint project between Federal and Sako. Half of these eight 9.3mm cartridges should be ignored because they are mild, on the order of the .35 Remington, and unsuited for dangerous game.



This Mozambique buffalo was taken cleanly with a single 286-grain Hornady Interlock from a Sabatti 9.3x74R double. The 9.3mms are probably marginal for elephant but even this mild 9.3mm is fully adequate for hunting buffalo.

That leaves four that are viable, useful, and adequate: 9.3x62mm Mauser; 9.3x64mm Brenneke; .370 Sako Magnum; and 9.3x74R. The first three are rimless bolt-action cartridges based on the 8mm Mauser or .30-06 case and able to be housed in standard .30-06-length actions. The 9.3x74R is a long, tapered rimmed cartridge, still a common chambering in Continental double rifles. The 9.3x62mm is by far the most popular. Like many older cartridges it’s enjoying quite a comeback, readily available in Europe and loaded by both Hornady and Norma. Introduced in 1905, it was essentially developed as a bolt-action version of the 9.3x74R. The two are ballistically identical; the most common loads for both feature a 286-grain bullet at 2,360 fps, yielding 3,530 foot-pounds.

Although case capacity and shape are similar to the 9.3x62mm, the “hottest” 9.3mm is Wilhelm Brenneke’s 9.3x64mm, introduced in 1910 and based on the .30-06 case. It is much faster, propelling the same 286-grain bullet at 2,690 fps and developing 4,580 foot-pounds. In Europe it was never as popular as the 9.3x62mm and is almost unheard-of in this country. The much newer .370 Sako (9.3×66), also based on the .30-06 case, pretty much falls in between the 9.3x62mm and the 9.3x64mm Brenneke. As loaded by Federal Premium, it features a 286-grain bullet at 2,560 fps, developing 4,147 foot-pounds.

In practical terms one can figure that the .370 Sako is the equal of the .375 H&H with 300-grain bullet, while the 9.3x64mm Brenneke exceedsthe .375 H&H. The 9.3x62mm and 9.3x74R, ballistic twins, are not quite the equal of the .375 H&H. My opinion is that all the 9.3mms and.375s are very marginal for elephant but, with heavy-for-caliber solids, will provide adequate penetration. Today, however, the buffalo represents the great majority of the dangerous-game universe. The 9.3mms are definitely adequate for any and all buffalo hunting.

The 9.3x62mm Mauser is the most common and most available. As usually loaded, with a 286-grain bullet at 2,360 fps, it offers an effective and mild-recoiling alternative. An advantage over the .375 H&H is that it can be housed in a .30-06 action, offering a lighter, trimmer package.

Obviously the same can be said of the .370 Sako (9.3x66mm), except that it is loaded faster, pretty much equaling the .375 H&H and thus producing about the same recoil. In 2008 a group of us took .370 Sako rifles to Zimbabwe using Federal ammo with 286-grain Barnes Triple Shock and 286-grain Barnes Super Solids. Together we took about ten buffalo and (using the solids) a couple of tuskless elephants. Performance was awesome, no problems, so when I say it equals the .375 H&H with 300-grain bullets I’m basing it on this experience.

Exactly why the .370 Sako hasn’t taken off baffles me, but it hasn’t become nearly as popular as the old 9.3x62mm Mauser. Although possibly the best of the bunch, the 9.3x64mm Brenneke is a rare bird, especially in the U.S. On the other hand, there’s nothing wrong with mild recoil provided you have the performance. I just got a light, handy, gorgeous 9.3x62mm from the Montana Rifle Company. I’m taking it to Cameroon soon for one more (hopefully one last!) try for a dwarf forest buffalo.



Based on the .30-06 case, the .370 Sako Magnum is equal to the .375 H&H but in shorter and trimmer case. The 286-grain Barnes Triple Shock was recovered from a buffalo; the 286-grain Super Solid was recovered from an elephant, perfect performance from both.

The 9.3x74R is also not be overlooked. Continental 9.3x74R doubles are much less costly than big-bore doubles, and can be built wonderfully light. I have a Sabatti 9.3x74R double with detachable Contessa scope mount. It groups both barrels under two inches at 100 yards, making it a viable and useful 200-yard double rifle. Last year in Mozambique we got onto a herd of buffalo in miomboforest and I had a shot at a nice bull at about eighty yards, almost broadside but quartering slightly toward me. That rifle weighs just over seven pounds with scope and it bounces pretty hard! The bull took the 286-grain Interlock hard, but was gone before I could get back on him. He crashed away, then silence, and in a few seconds heard his death bellow. We found him quickly, stone dead.

One of the trackers commented, “I wasn’t sure you could kill a buffalo with that little rifle.” Having never taken a buffalo with that cartridge, I wasn’t 100 percent sure, either, but I am now!

--------------------
John aka NitroX

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Re: The 9.3, not the .375 shld be min. caliber for African DG [Re: NitroX]
      #329477 - 19/06/19 04:38 PM

"9.3x64mm Brenneke Test Report"
Sporting Shooter September 1990


"9.3x64mm Brenneke Test Report" - Sporting Shooter September 1990 - click here
(2,728 kb)



"9.3x64mm Brenneke Test Report" - Sporting Shooter September 1990 - to continue click here
(2,728 kb)


File supplied by member "93x64mm".

--------------------
John aka NitroX

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"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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grandveneur
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Re: The 9.3, not the .375 shld be min. caliber for African DG [Re: Ripp]
      #348342 - 23/12/20 02:27 AM

Quote:

Nine-Three..--by Craig Boddington

The 9.3, not the .375, should really be considered the minimum caliber for dangerous game.

https://sportsafield.com/nine-three/





Interesting report , but in the last few years Craig Boddington sometimes corrects some things downwards. He also praised already once the cartridge 500 Jeffery for it's working on buffaloes.

I prefer a personal opinion and that is that 9.3mm can be used for hunting DG but on limited conditions. A cartridge caliber 9,3mm wouldn't be my first choice for buffalo and certainly not for elephant.

One should nevertheless remain critical , because when it comes to DG , an lion or an leopard are not not an buffalo or an elephant. One could in this case already discuss the use of one or the other cartridge 9,3mm. It also depends on what kind of bullet is used.


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grandveneur
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Re: The 9.3, not the .375 shld be min. caliber for African DG [Re: grandveneur]
      #378911 - 26/08/23 09:15 PM

This is also a topic that is discussed without coming to a conclusion.

In many countries of the former British Empire the cartridge 375 H&H Magnum has been set as the legal minimum for hunting Big Game. The cartridge 9,3x62 was certainly known, but perhaps it was considered a little bit borderline for the purpose. The cartridge 9,3x64 may not have been as popular at the time, but it is comparable to the cartridge 375 H&H Magnum.

But you have to set limits somewhere. If you always tolerate something below, you get to extremes that are no longer tolerable. It is ultimately about the game and not the well-being of the hunter. Who is not recoil proof should hunt something other than Big Game.


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Re: The 9.3, not the .375 shld be min. caliber for African DG [Re: grandveneur]
      #378917 - 27/08/23 12:46 AM

old laws have a stronge force of inertia
the .375 minimum rule will be there in 100 years

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Re: The 9.3, not the .375 shld be min. caliber for African DG [Re: lancaster]
      #378922 - 27/08/23 02:12 AM

The 375 rule does not seem to be that old, it must have only emerged in the late fifties, maybe even only in the early sixties.

It will certainly last as long as there is still Big Game hunting.


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