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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Paradox and Bore Guns

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gmark1
.224 member


Reged: 06/03/19
Posts: 8
Loc: illinois
size of a 4 bore barrel
      #325593 - 08/03/19 10:13 PM

I am planning to build a single barrel 4 bore muzzleloading black powder rifle, and am wanting to know barrel dimensions of the old 4 bore rifles. Searching the internet, I can come up with bore, weights, and barrel lengths, but nothing on breech and muzzle diameters. I would appreaciate it if someone can give me the outside dimensions of a 4 bore barrel. Thanks so much.

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Daryl_S
.577 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 19398
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: size of a 4 bore barrel [Re: gmark1]
      #325612 - 09/03/19 10:04 AM

I can take a semi-educated guess for you in building a 4bore rifle.

I think most (maybe all?) of the 4 bore singles used in Africa, aka Francis Selous, were smoothbore fowlers shortened in the barrel length for handiness in use. Selous' 4bore single was a Dutch 4 bore fowler, I'm quite sure - read that somewhere. I do not know the measurements of the breeches.

4 bore rifle = 1.052" + .012 = .012" = 1.076 groove to grove.

Add .200" per side for decent side-wall thickness (if 1137 or 4140) and you have 1.476", pretty close to 1.5", which is even better - in my opinion.

looks like fun - not.



this 6 bore, sold for $800.00 at auction in Feb, 2019



--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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szihn
.400 member


Reged: 24/06/07
Posts: 1617
Loc: Wind River Valley, Wyoming
Re: size of a 4 bore barrel [Re: Daryl_S]
      #325618 - 09/03/19 12:57 PM

I have made several. If you want some pointers let me know.

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Longknife
.300 member


Reged: 17/04/08
Posts: 143
Loc: Illinois
Re: size of a 4 bore barrel [Re: szihn]
      #325636 - 10/03/19 04:22 AM

You mighty give these guys a call to see what is available. I'm sure this is where szhin gets his barrels,,,Ed

http://www.thegunworks.com/custprodgun.cfm?ProductID=514&do=detail&Cat2Option=yes

Edited by Longknife (10/03/19 04:23 AM)


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szihn
.400 member


Reged: 24/06/07
Posts: 1617
Loc: Wind River Valley, Wyoming
Re: size of a 4 bore barrel [Re: Longknife]
      #325644 - 10/03/19 07:07 AM

No not all of them, but Joe Williams (Oregon barrels) does a good job. I would not talk you out of an Oregon Barrel. You would not be unhappy!

I have used Ed Rayl but he is so back-logged that it may take a lot of time to get one from him.


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Wayne59
.375 member


Reged: 20/06/15
Posts: 996
Loc: Lagrange Ga. USA
Re: size of a 4 bore barrel [Re: szihn]
      #325645 - 10/03/19 08:29 AM

Joe's barrel maker is on the mend right now. They might have one in stock other wise it is going to be a while.

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Ash
.400 member


Reged: 10/05/11
Posts: 1487
Loc: QLd, Australia
Re: size of a 4 bore barrel [Re: Wayne59]
      #325895 - 16/03/19 10:02 AM

Iíll plus 1 to the above, bought 2 barrels from then and am very happy with them. They even rushed them for me as I had a time restriction.

Cheers,
Troy.

--------------------
.


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Kynoch
.224 member


Reged: 11/02/05
Posts: 29
Re: size of a 4 bore barrel [Re: Ash]
      #326311 - 24/03/19 03:36 AM

I have one of Joe's barrels on a 4 bore rifle that they built about 10 years ago. The ball mold that I got from them is .975". (Not exactly true "4 bore" but I understand a lot of variation existed in actual bore size.)

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gmark1
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Reged: 06/03/19
Posts: 8
Loc: illinois
making progress [Re: Kynoch]
      #326325 - 24/03/19 01:03 PM

making some progress on the barrel. Started with a 2-1/2" chrome shaft, 27" long. Have the outside rough turned to about 2", and been drilling a hole thru it. So far, got a 55/64" hole all the way thru so far. I dont have a coolant thru drill system, so its slow going, but Im getting there. If this gun turns out good, I might have to make a 2 bore.

Edited by gmark1 (24/03/19 11:30 PM)


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Longknife
.300 member


Reged: 17/04/08
Posts: 143
Loc: Illinois
Re: making progress [Re: gmark1]
      #326406 - 26/03/19 12:27 AM

Gmark,,, WOW ,,,So you're making the barrel!!!! That must be some project! What type of rifling bench do you have? I have always been intrigued about making and rifling barrels. I see you're from Illinois, what area? I am near Alton,,,,Ed

--------------------
Longknife

Edited by Longknife (26/03/19 12:32 AM)


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gmark1
.224 member


Reged: 06/03/19
Posts: 8
Loc: illinois
Re: making progress [Re: Longknife]
      #326434 - 26/03/19 10:25 AM

Im going to leave it smoothbore, since I havent a rifling setup as of now. Got barrel bored to 63/64" and am leaving it there since thats the proper size hole for a 1-1/8 coarse tap. Got threads tapped for breech plug, and now ready to taper the barrel. Dont have a taper attachment, so I take off .050 every two inches, and then for the final cleanup passes, back out the tool .002 for every count of two, making marks on the barrel every inch to keep track of the count. Works pretty good actually. I am near Litchfield.

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Daryl_S
.577 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 19398
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: making progress [Re: gmark1]
      #326436 - 26/03/19 11:11 AM

Sounds good.
That's reamed/polished to 1.016".
Not bad, only a little short of1.052. Not many were exactly the right size.
The bigger the hole, usually, the better the potential accuracy.

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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gmark1
.224 member


Reged: 06/03/19
Posts: 8
Loc: illinois
Re: making progress [Re: Daryl_S]
      #326600 - 29/03/19 01:34 PM

been a learning experience on this project. Thought about leaving the bore at 31/32", and calling it good. But upon closer inspection, I notice something interesting. The shaft was a chromed hydraulic cylinder shaft, which apparently was cold rolled. Upon drilling out to 31/32" with a long bit, and shaft extension, it was easy see in the bore, spirals all the way down the bore caused by hardened areas from the cold rolling. I couldnt imagine a big drill bit could walk like that for 26", leaving the bore looking like it had screw threads. So next step was a 1" reamer, which cleaned up most of the spiral oversize areas. Then an oversize 1" reamer to take out the rest of the spirals. Last step Im working on now it with an expanding reamer to final size the bore. Next barrel I make will be with hot rolled steel

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Daryl_S
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 19398
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: making progress [Re: gmark1]
      #326620 - 30/03/19 04:45 AM

I am not a metalurgist, so know nothing about the suitability
of a cold rolled hydraulic cylinder for a gun barrel, that will likely run no
more than about 8,000psi with a top load.
I am curious if anyone else knows about this.


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gmark1
.224 member


Reged: 06/03/19
Posts: 8
Loc: illinois
Re: making progress [Re: Daryl_S]
      #326626 - 30/03/19 01:09 PM

not really planning on doing much with this gun, just light loads, and making noise. Otherwise I would go buy some 4140 for a high strength barrel. Since I am not a gunsmith, or machinist, I just wanted to try making one. According to my figures, even with a mild steel barrel, it would take 33866 psi to bulge the barrel.

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gmark1
.224 member


Reged: 06/03/19
Posts: 8
Loc: illinois
finally finished [Re: gmark1]
      #327360 - 16/04/19 10:07 PM

Finished this gun, and find it a blast to shoot. I would like to change the forearm on it to better match the stock, but otherwise pretty happy with the way it turned out. But at 24 lbs, its just too heavy to shoot much. Makes me realize I should have made an 8 or 10 bore, weighing around 13-15 lbs. Then I would have had something more useful, the balance would have been much better with a lighter barrel, and I would have actually used it for some hunting. I enjoyed making the 4 bore, and found it quite a challenge, but now I have a reason for a new project.

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Longknife
.300 member


Reged: 17/04/08
Posts: 143
Loc: Illinois
Re: finally finished [Re: gmark1]
      #327363 - 16/04/19 11:19 PM

Gmark, can you post pictures or am I going to have to come look at it in person??? What is your load? @4 poundfs oyght to soak up a little recoil!!!,,,Ed

--------------------
Longknife


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gmark1
.224 member


Reged: 06/03/19
Posts: 8
Loc: illinois
Re: finally finished [Re: Longknife]
      #327487 - 20/04/19 03:26 AM

I didnt feel like figuring out having a host site, just to post one picture. I can email you a picture if you like. I set off 700 grains with just a wad on top for a proof load. The blast from that was quite impressive! I dont have any round balls for it, so am just enjoying making noise with 350 grains.

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Longknife
.300 member


Reged: 17/04/08
Posts: 143
Loc: Illinois
Re: finally finished [Re: gmark1]
      #327559 - 22/04/19 03:03 AM

gmark. My e-mail add is in my profile, Thanks, Ed

--------------------
Longknife


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gmark1
.224 member


Reged: 06/03/19
Posts: 8
Loc: illinois
Re: finally finished [Re: Longknife]
      #327638 - 24/04/19 11:57 AM

for some reason, my email keeps getting rejected. Dont know why it wont go thru

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Longknife
.300 member


Reged: 17/04/08
Posts: 143
Loc: Illinois
Re: finally finished [Re: gmark1]
      #328226 - 10/05/19 10:59 PM

Gmark, My fault,, I have a new E-mail add. Try it again,,,Thanks< Ed

--------------------
Longknife


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