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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Rifles

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Ripp
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The GI Thompson-in-WW2... .by Bruce N. Canfield
      #325211 - 27/02/19 01:37 AM

One of the most iconic American firearms is the Thompson submachine gun. A staple of the Hollywood gangster movies in the 1930s, it is instantly recognizable to many people who otherwise know little about firearms. Nonetheless, the notoriety it garnered in the “Roaring Twenties” is only a small part of the Thompson story. The gun’s enduring legacy was earned in World War II, during which it proved to be a vital part of America’s small arms arsenal.

The first practical submachine gun, the German MP 18.1, was fielded during World War I. An American Army officer, Col. John T. Thompson (later a general), had foreseen the value of an arm with somewhat similar attributes—even before the MP 18.1 arrived on the scene. Thompson formed a commercial entity to develop and market such a gun, but the war ended before a prototype could be completed.

read entire story here:
https://www.americanrifleman.org/article...m_campaign=0219

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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Homer
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Re: The GI Thompson-in-WW2... .by Bruce N. Canfield [Re: Ripp]
      #325250 - 27/02/19 07:34 PM

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Donuts!

D'oh!
Homer

--------------------
"Beware the Lolly Pop of Mediocrity,
Lick it Once and You Will Suck Forever"


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xausa
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Re: The GI Thompson-in-WW2... .by Bruce N. Canfield [Re: Homer]
      #325264 - 28/02/19 06:28 AM

Not just in WW II:




Me with my trusty M1 Thompson and Mighty Mite outside Danang, 1965.


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93x64mm
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Re: The GI Thompson-in-WW2... .by Bruce N. Canfield [Re: xausa]
      #325266 - 28/02/19 07:19 AM

Great article Ripp!

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DarylS
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Re: The GI Thompson-in-WW2... .by Bruce N. Canfield [Re: 93x64mm]
      #325268 - 28/02/19 03:43 PM

I ALMOST got to shoot a 1921 Tommy gun - the 925 rounds per minute model.
If I am wrong on date or rpm, someone - correct me - pls.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Rothhammer1
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Re: The GI Thompson-in-WW2... .by Bruce N. Canfield [Re: DarylS]
      #325275 - 28/02/19 09:41 PM

Quote:


If I am wrong on date or rpm, someone - correct me - pls.




The 'Annihilator' prototypes (1919) were reputed to fire 1200 rounds per minute. The Colt made M1921 was advertised at a cyclic rate of 800, which was considered too fast by the Ordnance Department when tested for military use.

A quantity of Thompsons were ordered by the U.S. Navy as the 'Model of 1928', but with cyclic rate lowered to 600. This was achieved by replacing the 'actuator' (the reciprocating part with the charging knob) with one that was two ounces heavier and using lighter springs. The first orders of 1928's were filled by modifying existing Colt made examples which were 'overstamped' with an '8' over the final digit of the 'Model of 1921' designation.

Auto Ordnance, the firm marketing the Thompson, did not achieve the vast orders they sought for Thompsons until 1938 when the U.S. government ordered substantial quantities. After Colt made inventory was finally exhausted, the 'Model of 1928A1' were built by Auto Ordnance and by Savage Arms to the approved 1928 specification.

It was engineers at Savage who, in 1943, pushed for redesign of the Thompson to the much simplified M1 and M1A1 models which greatly reduced time and expense required for manufacture.

An excellent book on the Thompson is American Thunder by Frank Innamico which has since been revised as American Thunder 2. I have a copy of AT2, as well as a 1928A1 'parts kit' Thompson, one of the 'Lend Lease' Thompsons that were reputedly stored, unused, in Ukranian caves until the 1990s. They had initially been supplied to the USSR as standard equipment with M3 Stuart Tanks and White 'Half - Tracks'.



Here's a link to an article by the same author:

Thompson Article


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Rothhammer1
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Re: The GI Thompson-in-WW2... .by Bruce N. Canfield [Re: Rothhammer1]
      #325276 - 28/02/19 09:56 PM

'Tommy' pix:



--------------------
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Ripp
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Re: The GI Thompson-in-WW2... .by Bruce N. Canfield [Re: xausa]
      #325279 - 01/03/19 01:35 AM

Quote:

Not just in WW II:




Me with my trusty M1 Thompson and Mighty Mite outside Danang, 1965.




THAT is a really cool pic...

Congrats and thank you for your service..

Ripp

--------------------
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9.3x57
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Re: The GI Thompson-in-WW2... .by Bruce N. Canfield [Re: Ripp]
      #325286 - 01/03/19 07:35 AM

xausa showing up "in country" with a chopper in his hands does NOT surprise me one little bit!!

And with RIPP...yes, thank you for your service!!!!

As for WW2 Thompson, I've read that most of them went to the bottom of the Atlantic, having been on-board freighters sunk by the U-boot service of the Kriegsmarine.

A great reference to the overweight Tommy-gun is found in Spencer-Chapman's classic and famous THE JUNGLE IS NEUTRAL where he cites the thing nearly drove him and his mates INSANE during their infamous 14-day trek thru the jungle where they nearly starved, lost and bewildered and driven looney by the weight of the thing. Tempted to dump them, they...

I've never shot one, but I did own a pair of Stemple .45 cal submachine guns and really, what is "funner" to shoot than a 45 burpgun!

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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Rule303
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Re: The GI Thompson-in-WW2... .by Bruce N. Canfield [Re: xausa]
      #325287 - 01/03/19 09:48 AM

Quote:

Not just in WW II:




Me with my trusty M1 Thompson and Mighty Mite outside Danang, 1965.




Cool photo.

To change the topic a bit the Mighty Mite looks a bit like a Mini Moke. Not heard of them before. How did they go compared to the ubiquitous Jeep?

I am off to google them.


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Rothhammer1
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Re: The GI Thompson-in-WW2... .by Bruce N. Canfield [Re: Rule303]
      #325294 - 01/03/19 01:02 PM

Quote:


Cool photo.

To change the topic a bit the Mighty Mite looks a bit like a Mini Moke. Not heard of them before. How did they go compared to the ubiquitous Jeep?

I am off to google them.




Very cool photo!

The Mighty Mite (M422) was an aluminum, V4 powered, lightweight alternative to the Jeep that was built by American Motors for the USMC from 1959 - 1962 to be airlifted to its areas of deployment. I'm wondering now, after they had installed V4 engines in these, why didn't AMC utilize a V4 in any of their 'economy car' offerings (Rambler, Gremlin, etc.) afterward?

I've never read an actual 'drive report' about the M422. That would be interesting, indeed!

The original (G503) 'Jeeps' had been airlifted with considerable success since WW2, but it had been evident that a smaller, lighter version would be an improvement.

Here are some earlier prototypes,

From Willys:


Ford:


Kaiser:


Here was an effort to 'airlift' Jeeps by towing them with aircraft, the Hafner Rotabuggy:


Jeeps used with gliders, as was done in WW2:


--------------------
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9.3x57
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Re: The GI Thompson-in-WW2... .by Bruce N. Canfield [Re: Rothhammer1]
      #325298 - 01/03/19 01:24 PM

Kinda like a side-by-side today.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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xausa
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Re: The GI Thompson-in-WW2... .by Bruce N. Canfield [Re: Rothhammer1]
      #325306 - 01/03/19 09:31 PM

The MM was not too popular with the mechanics, as I recall, since after every "fording" in salt water the wheel bearings had to be repacked.

One unique feature was the lack of a spare wheel. If the right front tire went flat, you simply continued to drive, since the weight distribution allowed it to be driven on three wheels. If any other tire went flat, you exchanged that wheel with the right front one. Despite this feature, a lot of the MM's I saw in RVN had spares lashed to the roof supports with comm wire.

I never had a flat, so I can't confirm this information.

Another feature of the MM was all wheel independent suspension, unlike the live axle of the jeep. It gave it a much smoother ride over rough terrain. My MM was laid up for maintenance once and I had to use a jeep. I was horrified at the difference. My head repeatedly hit the canvas roof driving over the same terrain I had negotiated smoothly in the MM.

The adoption of larger helicopters with increased lift capability removed the rationale for the MM's existence, and it was gradually phased out.

I had an opportunity to buy one once, at the Knob Creek machine gun shoot in Kentucky, but the very limited availability of spare parts convinced me not to risk it.

The Wikipedia article on the M422 discusses its features in detail.


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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: The GI Thompson-in-WW2... .by Bruce N. Canfield [Re: xausa]
      #325316 - 02/03/19 07:09 AM

I'm no expert, but this doesn't look like a "V" pattern engine. It looks like an inline 4.








Quote:

I ALMOST got to shoot a 1921 Tommy gun - the 925 rounds per minute model.
If I am wrong on date or rpm, someone - correct me - pls.




Here's the one Daryl missed out on:





Curl

--------------------
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YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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DarylS
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Re: The GI Thompson-in-WW2... .by Bruce N. Canfield [Re: CptCurl]
      #325317 - 02/03/19 07:20 AM

Yeah - damn Hurricane Flo - what a beast that gun is.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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xausa
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Re: The GI Thompson-in-WW2... .by Bruce N. Canfield [Re: CptCurl]
      #325323 - 02/03/19 09:12 AM

Quote:

I'm no expert, but this doesn't look like a "V" pattern engine. It looks like an inline 4.

Curl




That's because it's a jeep, not a Mighty Mite.


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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: The GI Thompson-in-WW2... .by Bruce N. Canfield [Re: xausa]
      #325328 - 02/03/19 01:32 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I'm no expert, but this doesn't look like a "V" pattern engine. It looks like an inline 4.

Curl




That's because it's a jeep, not a Mighty Mite.






Like I said, I'm no expert!!!

Curl

--------------------
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YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: The GI Thompson-in-WW2... .by Bruce N. Canfield [Re: DarylS]
      #325329 - 02/03/19 01:33 PM

Quote:

Yeah - damn Hurricane Flo - what a beast that gun is.





A good reason to come back.

Curl

--------------------
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YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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Rothhammer1
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Re: The GI Thompson-in-WW2... .by Bruce N. Canfield [Re: CptCurl]
      #325349 - 03/03/19 11:52 AM

Quote:

I'm no expert, but this doesn't look like a "V" pattern engine. It looks like an inline 4.







That photo is of a WW2 era Willys prototype, doubtless with the 134 'Go Devil' engine (a great engine, I can attest).

The 'Mighty Mite' M422 had an AMC built air cooled aluminum V4. I poked around a bit and found that the (alleged) reason they were not used for passenger vehicles was due to "low horsepower output", yet they were rated 55 horsepower. The 1960 - 1969 version of the venerable Volkswagen Beetle ran a 40 horse air cooled engine and sold like hotcakes in the U.S. and worldwide. Imagine if AMC had designed and built a lightweight competitor? A junior Rambler so equipped may have saved AMC?

Here's an article about the M422: M422A1

The engine bay of an M422A1 'Mighty Mite':


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Rothhammer1
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Re: The GI Thompson-in-WW2... .by Bruce N. Canfield [Re: xausa]
      #325350 - 03/03/19 11:56 AM

Quote:



One unique feature was the lack of a spare wheel. If the right front tire went flat, you simply continued to drive, since the weight distribution allowed it to be driven on three wheels. If any other tire went flat, you exchanged that wheel with the right front one. Despite this feature, a lot of the MM's I saw in RVN had spares lashed to the roof supports with comm wire.

I never had a flat, so I can't confirm this information.

Another feature of the MM was all wheel independent suspension, unlike the live axle of the jeep. It gave it a much smoother ride over rough terrain. My MM was laid up for maintenance once and I had to use a jeep. I was horrified at the difference. My head repeatedly hit the canvas roof driving over the same terrain I had negotiated smoothly in the MM.






Great post!

Thank you for that.

--------------------
Citizen of the Cherokee Nation


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