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Ripp
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The-maximum-practical-range-of-slugs & buckshot
      #324988 - 22/02/19 01:26 AM

https://www.shootingillustrated.com/arti...m_campaign=0219


This article, "Out of Range?" appeared originally as a Shotguns column in the April 2017 issue of Shooting Illustrated. To subscribe to Shooting Illustrated, visit the NRA membership page here and select Shooting Illustrated as your member magazine.

Do an online search, and you’ll find piles of information about the maximum range of slugs and buckshot. Most base conclusions upon mathematical data, not the real world. Of course, in most in-the-home scenarios, the type of shell used matters little—provided you can deliver it accurately before your attacker does. But, it is wise to know your limitations.

Fact is, your load’s maximum range alone is worthless. What is important is your maximum practical range (MPR). Your MPR is the maximum distance at which your specific setup—shotgun, choke, load, sights and your ability—will stop a threat every time. It includes three factors: Your gun and load’s terminal ballistic performance, the target’s mental and physical makeup and your ability to hit that target.

Real-World Terminal Performance
Gelatin tests offer a baseline for how a bullet performs and a great photo for manufacturers to tout. But gelatin doesn’t mimic the bone, sinew, fluid and muscle of living animals. The best test is flesh and blood.

Before anyone condemns me for comparing deer hunting to combat, I’m not; I’m comparing deer to humans. While they are different species, they are much closer in physiology and tenacity for life than gelatin: Both adult males weigh about the same (roughly 175 pounds) and both require sufficient tissue and organ disruption, blood loss and/or trauma to stop. To discount centuries of hunter observations about killing power just because it offends someone is a waste. There is one big difference, however. In hunting, it’s a cardinal sin to wound an animal, but in combat, a wounded attacker is a less effective one. Regardless, this story is about stopping threats, and here are some valuable observations. The combat veterans with whom I have spoken concur with them.

Chip Watkins owns Monquin Creek, a deer-hunting operation in Virginia. A lifelong whitetail hunter who uses dogs and a shotgun loaded with buckshot, Watkins has taken more than 400 deer and witnessed thousands hit the dirt. Once, he killed a deer at 105 yards with buckshot. He says four pellets hit the buck in the chest/lungs and the deer expired in under a minute. Watkins was using a 26-inch barreled Remington 870 with a custom choke.

“Normally I use Federal Premium 00 Buck with a modified choke, and I know I can kill a deer to 50 yards, every time.” But most home-defense guns won’t display the same performance as Watkins’ hunting rig.

Tim Richardson is a professional hunting guide in Illinois. The geniuses in government there think buckshot is too maiming for deer, so they mandate either muzzleloaders or slugs for its firearm season. Richardson prefers a scoped, rifled-barreled Savage shotgun with Hornady SST slugs. With a similar rig he saw a client shoot and kill a 275-pound buck at 236 yards. His MPR, however, is 200 yards, but he says that 75- to 125-yard shots are routine. While this highlights what a slug-optimized shotgun can do, it’s not realistic for your smoothbore Remington 870.



Finding Your MPR
My home-defense shotty of choice is a Mossberg 930 Watchdog with an 18-inch barrel, single-bead sight and cylinder choke. It basically follows the buckshot rule of thumb that says the pattern will spread 1 inch for every yard. However, at 40 yards my load’s pattern spreads to 45 inches, with only a couple pellets in the vital zone. So 30 yards is my maximum practical range with buckshot. Certainly, my hunting shotgun that utilizes a Tru-Lock full choke is closer to Watkins’ max—it spreads 15 inches at 30 yards—but the reason I chose the Mossberg is for its compactness, handling and capacity. Inside of 10 yards, where I plan on defending my home, I want that inch-per-yard cylinder spread.

For a slug that has ample energy, maximum practical range boils down to the shooter’s ability to hit vitals. Using Federal Premium Barnes Expander slugs in my Mossberg’s bead-sighted smoothbore from a tactical rest, I averaged 4-inch groups at 50 yards; 6-inch groups at 75 yards and 10-inch groups at 100. I consider the vital zone of a person to be about 10 inches wide, so my MPR is 100 yards. I was also surprised to learn that at 50 yards, this load printed 12.2 inches high, which tells me I should aim that much lower to hit center mass. Certainly the use of ghost-ring sights or an optic can increase your MPR immensely. But I don’t think the reward of being able to shoot at 150 yards is worth the trade-off for its slowness and bulk. Besides, if danger lurks at 125 yards, I might go fishing instead.

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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DarylS
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Re: The-maximum-practical-range-of-slugs & buckshot [Re: Ripp]
      #324992 - 22/02/19 04:16 AM

I was quite amazed that with his 'special' choke, he was able to kill a deer at over 100yards with buckshot - with 4 pellets out of 9 or 12 in the kill zone.

Most people will not spend the time with modification of chokes and loads to accomplish similar patterns. Even his 50 yard max is a long shot for buckshot from the average gun.

Inside the home, much different scenario.

Interesting article, though.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Rule303
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Re: The-maximum-practical-range-of-slugs & buckshot [Re: DarylS]
      #325000 - 22/02/19 10:34 AM

I concur with Daryl's thoughts.

What I will point out on the home invasion area is the danger of pellets missing the offender or over penetration by a large degree. I most certainly would opt for 00 or 000 and try to keep shots within 10 meters. Smaller shot normally does not open as quick and a load of this 4's even 7's will over penetrate at close range more than Buckshot. As the smaller sizes clump for longer the and travel as a long group the front runners punch so far in then the followers go progressively further. Probably stop the bad guy faster as a 1&1/2" hole in the right area tends to do that.



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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
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Re: The-maximum-practical-range-of-slugs & buckshot [Re: Rule303]
      #325006 - 22/02/19 01:15 PM

Google Wade Rush "Bubba Roundtree Outdoors". Was on youtube but he might have moved to that new pay-per-view sight.

I spent last winter working up buckshot loads. Wade is The Man.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: The-maximum-practical-range-of-slugs & buckshot [Re: Ripp]
      #325031 - 23/02/19 05:25 AM

I was expecting an article on effective ranges of slugs and pellets fro use on game. Instead another "killing people" article. And those long ranges mentioned, "I once saw someone kill an elephant with a single number 8 pellet at 800 yards" .... about the same level as someone in a pub on boozed up conversation.

As for using shotguns for defence, obviously close range only. What use is their statements about someone killing at deer at 236 yards in such a discussion. My first thought is WHY is someone shooting at a deer at 236 yards with a shotgun in the first place?

For defence I think BBs to no. 4 pellets would be appropriate.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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DarylS
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Re: The-maximum-practical-range-of-slugs & buckshot [Re: NitroX]
      #325036 - 23/02/19 05:47 AM

When I was a kid back in Ontario, I used #4 buck (due to using a single 20 bore) as my jackrabbit (Euro Hare) and fox load in the winter. There were 28 pellets to the 1oz. load and it worked. It did not work well on groundhogs further than about 15 yards - as the gun had a cylinder bore and ground hogs have to be killed on the spot of they get down the hole.
After becoming an adult & doing a bunch of testing, I've come to rely upon 00 or SSG in 2 3/4" mag loading with 12 balls as a work, police then jail guard load. Slugs are also useful, of course in the line of duty.
That said, I never had to use them while working or as a home defense load, but I've oft thought a simple trap load might work better in the home. If the thug is wearing a vest which is highly unlikely here, a double/blow to the chest would most certainly take the fight out, likely even a single shot. With practice using trap loads, you can fire 2 shots that sound like one, when using a pump M870. With a bit of practice, the Mossy does the same. Both shots are on the mark. Yes - the trigger has to be pulled each time. It is much more difficult to hit when shooting that fast using buckshot or slugs due to the increased recoil.
Only a couple of my 'boys' were able to shoot this quickly, but the rest were not slouches in the use of their handguns nor their M870's. The X-Bulgarian Police M1 Carbines we had were a bit of a joke. I think the buckshot threw tighter "patterns".

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: The-maximum-practical-range-of-slugs & buckshot [Re: DarylS]
      #325041 - 23/02/19 06:26 AM

Quote:


After becoming an adult & doing a bunch of testing, I've come to rely upon 00 or SSG in 2 3/4" mag loading with 12 balls as a work, police then jail guard load. Slugs are also useful, of course in the line of duty.




Daryl, thanks for the professional experience comments on what you were equipped with.

I think the lighter shot was recommended somewhere, to avoid pass throughs in walls etc and harming other people.

On a different note, I think using BBs could be justified as being prepared for a fox wandering by, while shooting SGs or SSGs might seem a bit like being pre-pared to use a shotgun illegally as a self defence weapon. Not relevant in the USA but possibly very relevant if needed in court elsehwhere many countries in the world.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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DarylS
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Re: The-maximum-practical-range-of-slugs & buckshot [Re: NitroX]
      #325051 - 23/02/19 08:46 AM

BB didn't work well for me for fox with the 20 bore. That was likely due to the #4 buck shooting closer with more pellets on-target or just being more effective overall from my gun. IIRC, it shot poorly with the Imperial BB loads (paper case).

After a couple years, I bought, then switched to using my 6.5 Mag. for foxes as we only shot them for bounty ($5.0 Oxford County, $4 in Middlesex County) - the size of the hole made no difference. In the farmland of Southern Ontario where I grew up, they were just classified as vermin.

Here in BC, foxes are classified as fur bearing animals and as such, they can only be shot or trapped by a licensed trapper on crown land, or his licensed trap line.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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DarylS
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Re: The-maximum-practical-range-of-slugs & buckshot [Re: NitroX]
      #325054 - 23/02/19 09:08 AM

Quote:

Quote:


After becoming an adult & doing a bunch of testing, I've come to rely upon 00 or SSG in 2 3/4" mag loading with 12 balls as a work, police then jail guard load. Slugs are also useful, of course in the line of duty.




Daryl, thanks for the professional experience comments on what you were equipped with.

I think the lighter shot was recommended somewhere, to avoid pass throughs in walls etc and harming other people.

On a different note, I think using BBs could be justified as being prepared for a fox wandering by, while shooting SGs or SSGs might seem a bit like being prepared to use a shotgun illegally as a self defense weapon. Not relevant in the USA but possibly very relevant if needed in court elsewhere many countries in the world.




If not waterfowl hunting, we can carry any size lead or non-toxic shot, or slugs may be carried, as shotguns are allowed for hunting deer and bear, grouse and vermin like crows, starlings, English sparrows, coyote, wolf, etc.

Non-toxic shot, whether steel (iron), bismuth or tungsten only are allowed for waterfowl.

Might be interesting to note, we had the odd inmate runner when we were carrying #4 heavy duck loads in the Rem. 870's. The Province mandated us to use trap (#7 1/2 loads only. Too many runners. After Don switched us to the #4's, we had a long time no runners, then one took off, got shot-at, hit by one pellet, did't even pen his jeans. Thus, they found out from him after he was caught by the Mounty dog man, that the pellet only stung, didn't even pen his leg. Don B. and I, the instructors then switched over to the Winch. 00 buckshot only, the staff were happy, maggots not so much lol - no more escape attempts. Of course, they found out by listening in to staff talking in the corridor - such as "hey - they're giving us buckshot now" .

From the guard towers during exercise period, the closest shot we'd get was about 77yards to the fence corners of both remand and gen. population yards, where the fences were more easily scaled.
Seems they didn't want to chance the 00 buckshot.

LOL- When buddy Keith and I were in the towers, they didn't even look at the fence.

Our 870's were all 20" riot guns, non choked, with 7-round mag. extensions, giving 8 shots with one up the spout.

Buckshot does have it's place.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Rule303
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Re: The-maximum-practical-range-of-slugs & buckshot [Re: NitroX]
      #325076 - 23/02/19 04:00 PM

Quote:

Quote:




I think the lighter shot was recommended somewhere, to avoid pass throughs in walls etc and harming other people.






John then other way round. Lighter shot will pass through more walls etc then the larger shot, at home defence ranges.

Test by the BATF and other police agencies in the US have proved this.


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Ripp
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Re: The-maximum-practical-range-of-slugs & buckshot [Re: DarylS]
      #325151 - 25/02/19 02:27 PM

Quote:

BB didn't work well for me for fox with the 20 bore. That was likely due to the #4 buck shooting closer with more pellets on-target or just being more effective overall from my gun. IIRC, it shot poorly with the Imperial BB loads (paper case).

After a couple years, I bought, then switched to using my 6.5 Mag. for foxes as we only shot them for bounty ($5.0 Oxford County, $4 in Middlesex County) - the size of the hole made no difference. In the farmland of Southern Ontario where I grew up, they were just classified as vermin.

Here in BC, foxes are classified as fur bearing animals and as such, they can only be shot or trapped by a licensed trapper on crown land, or his licensed trap line.




As a kid on the farm, hunting fox was big money.. in high school there were selling for near or over $100 per pelt...hunted, trapped, chased on snowmobile, whatever to took.. while on snowmobile, used my 12 gauge shotgun with #4's .. worked just fine.. and didn't rip open the pelts much... even walking sloughs, would use 2's or 4's..seems to do just fine..had my trusty Coast to Coast Hardware store single shot 12... was amazingly effective..

Was hunting pheasants years later in SW North Dakota.. come around a corner and a coyote was trotting off out of a little water hole.. smoked him as well, again shooting number 4's out of my 12 gauge.. this time a Rem. 870 .. all those fox, bought me a new shotgun..

Was told years ago, nothing strikes the fear of an intruder more than the racking of a 12 gauge pump..pretty sure still holds true today..

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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DarylS
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Re: The-maximum-practical-range-of-slugs & buckshot [Re: Ripp]
      #325156 - 25/02/19 05:51 PM

It would be a chilling sound if you weren't armed in kind.

Pump-guns rule- generally.

I would like to fire an Atchisson some day, with the 32 round drum.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Ripp
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Re: The-maximum-practical-range-of-slugs & buckshot [Re: DarylS]
      #325208 - 27/02/19 01:27 AM

Quote:

It would be a chilling sound if you weren't armed in kind.

Pump-guns rule- generally.

I would like to fire an Atchisson some day, with the 32 round drum.




AGREE--Would be a ton of fun...

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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