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rigbymauser
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Reged: 15/05/05
Posts: 1970
Loc: Denmark
.30-30 in Africa..
      #324022 - 30/01/19 06:19 AM

..why not.

Anybody know who has brought a ."dirty-thirty" with them to Africa. I thought about next time to bring one. Thought it could be kinda cool. Its nuff gun for impala, warthog, springbok and that size game.


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Postman
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Re: .30-30 in Africa.. [Re: rigbymauser]
      #324038 - 30/01/19 02:26 PM

So I’m going to put forth an idea that is surely controversial:

“There have been more whitetail deer harvested with the .30-30 than any other rifle throughout history”
“And, there have been more whitetail shot and lost with a .30-30 than any other rifle throughout history.”

The eastern Canadian whitetails are pretty big and it seems that the thutty thutty just doesn’t seem to pack enough punch to reliably switch them off. I watched a good heated argument or two at a hunt camp I used to participate in where one of the guys was using a .30-06 and harvested every deer he ever shot at every season..... The others in the camp felt that the .30-06 destroyed too much meat and were adamant that he switch to a .30-30 like the rest of the camp...... That camp had numerous deer that got shot and were never recovered even after very long drawn out tracking exercises.

Me, I’m a bit undecided but I think shots should be kept sane and under 100 yards with the .30-30.... shot placement is really key with this mild round. I don’t see why an impala wouldn’t expire with a well placed fatal shot at reasonably short range. If it is something you’d like to try, I say “why not!!”?

Edited by Postman (30/01/19 02:29 PM)


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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
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Re: .30-30 in Africa.. [Re: rigbymauser]
      #324041 - 30/01/19 03:18 PM

Quote:

..why not.

Anybody know who has brought a ."dirty-thirty" with them to Africa. I thought about next time to bring one. Thought it could be kinda cool. Its nuff gun for impala, warthog, springbok and that size game.




I did, but only used it on vervet monkey.

Had trouble keeping the professional's paws off it, tho!

It was a Marlin transitional 36/336 model.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
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Re: .30-30 in Africa.. [Re: 9.3x57]
      #324046 - 30/01/19 03:50 PM

My thought is, you put a bullet hole through both lungs, the animal will die, period..
As to Postman's story..there are, IMHO, so many variables there to really draw any type of conclusion that would be credible..

Were the 30-30 shooters shooting at running game?? Was the '06 shooter maybe just a better shot? Was he using a scope vs open sights? all open sights?? all scoped?? types of bullets used by both??

I used a 30-30 for a couple years after I left the farm just for nostalgia ..had no problems on the whitetail..and we are also very far north..on the Canadian line--so, also very large deer..

Stick with my story.. 22 rimfire, 30-30 or 300 Win Mag--put a legitimate hole through BOTH lungs..they die, period.. hell I killed a whitetail doe in my back yard accidently with a 22 pellet gun..

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
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Re: .30-30 in Africa.. [Re: Ripp]
      #324049 - 30/01/19 03:59 PM

Quote:

My thought is, you put a bullet hole through both lungs, the animal will die, period..
As to Postman's story..there are, IMHO, so many variables there to really draw any type of conclusion that would be credible..

Were the 30-30 shooters shooting at running game?? Was the '06 shooter maybe just a better shot? Was he using a scope vs open sights? all open sights?? all scoped?? types of bullets used by both??

I used a 30-30 for a couple years after I left the farm just for nostalgia ..had no problems on the whitetail..and we are also very far north..on the Canadian line--so, also very large deer..

Stick with my story.. 22 rimfire, 30-30 or 300 Win Mag--put a legitimate hole through BOTH lungs..they die, period.. hell I killed a whitetail doe in my back yard accidently with a 22 pellet gun..




+1

The only BS in this post is the word "accidently".



--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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Homer
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Re: .30-30 in Africa.. [Re: 9.3x57]
      #324052 - 30/01/19 06:43 PM

G'Day Fella's,

Rigbymauser, , I agree, why not.

D'oh!
Homer

--------------------
"Beware the Lolly Pop of Mediocrity,
Lick it Once and You Will Suck Forever"


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Rule303
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Reged: 05/07/09
Posts: 4896
Loc: Woodford Qld
Re: .30-30 in Africa.. [Re: 9.3x57]
      #324055 - 30/01/19 08:57 PM

Quote:

Quote:

My thought is, you put a bullet hole through both lungs, the animal will die, period..
As to Postman's story..there are, IMHO, so many variables there to really draw any type of conclusion that would be credible..

Were the 30-30 shooters shooting at running game?? Was the '06 shooter maybe just a better shot? Was he using a scope vs open sights? all open sights?? all scoped?? types of bullets used by both??

I used a 30-30 for a couple years after I left the farm just for nostalgia ..had no problems on the whitetail..and we are also very far north..on the Canadian line--so, also very large deer..

Stick with my story.. 22 rimfire, 30-30 or 300 Win Mag--put a legitimate hole through BOTH lungs..they die, period.. hell I killed a whitetail doe in my back yard accidently with a 22 pellet gun..




+1

The only BS in this post is the word "accidently".






I concur.

I can't see why a 30-30 wouldn't do the job. I have shot and killed a few decent sized pigs between 150 and 200mts with one. Use 170 grain pills keep shots under 150mts and you should be right. If cape Buff is the game you need to be 5 mts or closer and in behind the ear. Had a Ranger mate in the NT shoot Water Buff this way. Yes his stalking skills and bush-craft were excellent


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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
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Re: .30-30 in Africa.. [Re: Rule303]
      #324061 - 30/01/19 11:55 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

My thought is, you put a bullet hole through both lungs, the animal will die, period..
As to Postman's story..there are, IMHO, so many variables there to really draw any type of conclusion that would be credible..

Were the 30-30 shooters shooting at running game?? Was the '06 shooter maybe just a better shot? Was he using a scope vs open sights? all open sights?? all scoped?? types of bullets used by both??

I used a 30-30 for a couple years after I left the farm just for nostalgia ..had no problems on the whitetail..and we are also very far north..on the Canadian line--so, also very large deer..

Stick with my story.. 22 rimfire, 30-30 or 300 Win Mag--put a legitimate hole through BOTH lungs..they die, period.. hell I killed a whitetail doe in my back yard accidently with a 22 pellet gun..




+1

The only BS in this post is the word "accidently".






I concur.

I can't see why a 30-30 wouldn't do the job. I have shot and killed a few decent sized pigs between 150 and 200mts with one. Use 170 grain pills keep shots under 150mts and you should be right. If cape Buff is the game you need to be 5 mts or closer and in behind the ear. Had a Ranger mate in the NT shoot Water Buff this way. Yes his stalking skills and bush-craft were excellent




9.3x57 And Rule 303,

WHY??? WHY??
O.K.. It was KIND OF an accident..

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
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Re: .30-30 in Africa.. [Re: Ripp]
      #324063 - 31/01/19 12:57 AM

...accidently...on purpose...



--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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Wayne59
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Reged: 20/06/15
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Loc: Lagrange Ga. USA
Re: .30-30 in Africa.. [Re: 9.3x57]
      #324067 - 31/01/19 02:30 AM

Is this a death bed confession?

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rigbymauser
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Reged: 15/05/05
Posts: 1970
Loc: Denmark
Re: .30-30 in Africa.. [Re: Wayne59]
      #324075 - 31/01/19 05:24 AM



Bought these 7boxes of ammo right here before Christmas.
Its all 170grain.
Most .30-30 ammo found overhere are 150grain stuff.
I hope the ammo here will do well in my old 1893 Marlin.
I lying here with a slipped disc so I haven`t tried it yet.



Edited by rigbymauser (31/01/19 05:43 AM)


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DarylS
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Re: .30-30 in Africa.. [Re: rigbymauser]
      #324078 - 31/01/19 05:48 AM

Here in BC, I've been told a lot of MOOSE have been killed with .30/30's. Some of them were even found.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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rigbymauser
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Reged: 15/05/05
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Re: .30-30 in Africa.. [Re: DarylS]
      #324080 - 31/01/19 06:09 AM

Quote:

Here in BC, I've been told a lot of MOOSE have been killed with .30/30's. Some of them were even found.






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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
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Re: .30-30 in Africa.. [Re: DarylS]
      #324081 - 31/01/19 06:19 AM

Quote:

Here in BC, I've been told a lot of MOOSE have been killed with .30/30's. Some of them were even found.




LOL. Well said.

A LOT of elk here have been killed with the .30-30 for the obvious reason that for many years the gun was cheap and readily available. A friend used on with no problems at all. I'm sure some have been lost as well, and in truth, I personally would avoid it for elk and definitely for moose, tho I've read of many of them and of course big bear of both brown and white configuration being killed, too.

As a young hunter a friend called me up to help him with a deer he shot. As it turned out, he was sitting along a treeline and heard a shot, then some minutes later saw a buck leave the treeline and run toward him. He was using a Remington 700 in .30-06 topped with a Williams Guide peep sight. One shot took the deer down nicely. A few minutes after that, an out-of-breath kid packing a Marlin 336 popped out of the treeline as well, claiming the deer was his. A discussion took place and the kid gave up, apparently convinced he'd missed the animal. Later, when helping my friend skin it, I found a fresh wound on the animal's ham, invisible from the outside. We dug in and found a bullet up against the femur. Removing it and cleaning it off, I could see it was a .30-30 bullet fired from a Marlin as it clearly showed Micro-Groove rifling. Bullet was a little mushroomed but had only penetrated a few inches and simply stopped when contacting the rear leg bone. Deer didn't even notice it.

Many years later I shot a buck that was running away from me with a 6.5x55 and a 140 grain Prvi Partizan soft point. Bullet penetrated the rear ham, shattered the femur and we found it under the hide on the off shoulder.

I've often reflected on those two similar shots.

Anyway, my son and I have both used the .30-30 to kill smallish black bear but nothing else of game. I've used it on butcher sheep a bit and we have used the very similar-performing 7.62x39 for deer, coyotes and small varmints and consider it a very fine deer round with the 125 grain bullets we have used. Moral of the story being when used on game of the size of whitetails, I think the .30-30 {or rounds of it's type .32 Win, .30 Rem, 7.62x39, etc} is a fine round as long as one keeps to side shots.

As if that is a remarkable statement, seeings that millions of deer have been killed with the hoary old Dirty-Thirty!

So in Africa it would be fine on game of whitetail size, and there are a lot of critters that fit that category.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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rigbymauser
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Reged: 15/05/05
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Re: .30-30 in Africa.. [Re: 9.3x57]
      #324092 - 31/01/19 08:48 AM

Lots of swedes have used the 6,5x55 for moose. I have often wondered how long the moose ran before dropping.

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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
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Re: .30-30 in Africa.. [Re: rigbymauser]
      #324093 - 31/01/19 08:53 AM

Quote:

Lots of swedes have used the 6,5x55 for moose. I have often wondered how long the moose ran before dropping.




This listing has been kicked around for many years. Not sure the original source of it.

http://www.kifaruforums.net/archive/index.php/t-10343.html

I have never killed a moose but if interpolating results on elk and deer mean anything, I see no reason to doubt its accuracy.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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rigbymauser
.400 member


Reged: 15/05/05
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Re: .30-30 in Africa.. [Re: 9.3x57]
      #324095 - 31/01/19 09:22 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Lots of swedes have used the 6,5x55 for moose. I have often wondered how long the moose ran before dropping.




This listing has been kicked around for many years. Not sure the original source of it.

http://www.kifaruforums.net/archive/index.php/t-10343.html

I have never killed a moose but if interpolating results on elk and deer mean anything, I see no reason to doubt its accuracy.



I have seen that list and somehow it doesn`t make sence intirely..


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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
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Re: .30-30 in Africa.. [Re: rigbymauser]
      #324097 - 31/01/19 10:01 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Lots of swedes have used the 6,5x55 for moose. I have often wondered how long the moose ran before dropping.




This listing has been kicked around for many years. Not sure the original source of it.

http://www.kifaruforums.net/archive/index.php/t-10343.html

I have never killed a moose but if interpolating results on elk and deer mean anything, I see no reason to doubt its accuracy.



I have seen that list and somehow it doesn`t make sence intirely..




I don't have much to gripe about pertaining to the calibers that have substantial representation. It's hard to make anything of those that are cited infrequently.

I've killed elk with the .375 H&H Mag, .30-06, 9.3x57, 6.5x55, 7x57 and .264 Win Mag and deer with many calibers from 6.5x55 to .375. To be honest, I can't say I've seen a significant difference between any of them. Hit right they drop or run a bit. Hit badly and they run a lot.

Years ago Finn Aagaard stated that he couldn't see much difference on medium game shot with the .375 and other common smaller calibers {.270, .30-06, etc}. He had vastly more experience than me, but I don't have any experience that would call his judgment on that score into question.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: .30-30 in Africa.. [Re: 9.3x57]
      #324112 - 31/01/19 11:06 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Lots of swedes have used the 6,5x55 for moose. I have often wondered how long the moose ran before dropping.




This listing has been kicked around for many years. Not sure the original source of it.

http://www.kifaruforums.net/archive/index.php/t-10343.html

I have never killed a moose but if interpolating results on elk and deer mean anything, I see no reason to doubt its accuracy.



I have seen that list and somehow it doesn`t make sence intirely..




I've killed elk with the .375 H&H Mag, .30-06, 9.3x57, 6.5x55, 7x57 and .264 Win Mag and deer with many calibers from 6.5x55 to .375. To be honest, I can't say I've seen a significant difference between any of them. Hit right they drop or run a bit. Hit badly and they run a lot.

Years ago Finn Aagaard stated that he couldn't see much difference on medium game shot with the .375 and other common smaller calibers {.270, .30-06, etc}. He had vastly more experience than me, but I don't have any experience that would call his judgment on that score into question.




And here it is.. "Hit right they drop or run a bit. Hit badly and they run a lot."- weird..:)

I have often questioned the guy who says, "Man, I hit that elk solid, 3 times, right through the lungs".. To that, I say BULL shit!!! IF you truly hit it through the lungs, that elk would be in your freezer right now..but instead the rifle, caliber, wind, scope, whatever gets the blame..OR, maybe elk have 3 lungs???

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

Edited by Ripp (31/01/19 11:23 PM)


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Postman
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Re: .30-30 in Africa.. [Re: Ripp]
      #324114 - 31/01/19 11:36 PM

Quote: “And here it is.. "Hit right they drop or run a bit. Hit badly and they run a lot."- weird..:)

I have often questioned the guy who says, "Man, I hit that elk solid, 3 times, right through the lungs".. To that, I say BULL shit!!! IF you truly hit it through the lungs, that elk would be in your freezer right now..but instead the rifle, caliber, wind, scope, whatever gets the blame..OR, maybe elk have 3 lungs???”

^ ^ ^ ^. This!!!!!! ^. ^ ^ ^

Yes, I think that is the crux of the issue with the .30-30....... Will it kill deer sized game? ( even big whitetails?). Of course it will!!! As Ripp points out, mortal hits will anchor game......

The issue with the .30-30 is when hits are marginal or at bad angles as the .30-30 lacks horsepower to reliably penetrate to the vitals on deer and other such animals that exceed 200 pounds. Put it through the boiler room, and the freezer is full of venison. Hit badly and at best you have a long tracking job and at worst, you lose the deer.

The .30-06 is significantly more powerful and will provide greater margin of error and offers up deeper penetration and I think that’s an important distinction......Along with more horsepower and deeper penetration comes greater tissue destruction. Some would say better to have half a deer than to lose a whole one..... Others just get close and wait for a clean broadside shot and accept the reailities of the ballistics of the cartridge they’re using and will pick their shots - or accept that if they’re not offered a good clean broadside shot or similar shot where surety of hitting the vitals is high, they will pass on pulling the trigger.

Edited by Postman (01/02/19 09:56 AM)


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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
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Re: .30-30 in Africa.. [Re: Postman]
      #324118 - 01/02/19 01:19 AM

RIPP, exactly!!!

BTW: Mine and my daughter's experience, of course only reflecting that of many, many others, with the 7.62x39 makes me convinced that the .30-30 would benefit by the use of modern 125 grain bullets and held to only side shots on deer AND held to about 100 yards range would be superior to the old slow 170's whichsupposedly go 2200 fps but in reality only approach 2000. 125's would run about the same speed as the Commie service round. We shot some decent sized deer and in fact, one of the largest we've ever shot was shot by my then-15 or so year old daughter and that being a frontal shot. And THAT bullet due to a long-story...a Wolf HP! Velocity matters on thin stuff and that monsters ran about 60 yards and piled up.

One of the things I appreciate about this forum is the Euro influence here with their experience with tracking dogs.

IMO a lot of those deer and even elk that are thought to have been missed or hit poorly have been actually hit right but so many folks simply are incapable of and worse, simply will not track game or even worse yet, don't care enough to, so a critter that runs 50 yards in the woods is lost. And some states in the US STILL bar use of blood tracking dogs.

Thanks to some folks on this forum I petitioned the Idaho Fish and Game Department some years ago and got that law changed. The .30-30 would benefit if every rifle came with a trained dog!

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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DarylS
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Re: .30-30 in Africa.. [Re: 9.3x57]
      #324124 - 01/02/19 05:46 AM

Quote:



One of the things I appreciate about this forum is the Euro influence here with their experience with tracking dogs.

IMO a lot of those deer and even elk that are thought to have been missed or hit poorly have been actually hit right but so many folks simply are incapable of and worse, simply will not track game or even worse yet, don't care enough to, so a critter that runs 50 yards in the woods is lost. And some states in the US STILL bar use of blood tracking dogs.

Thanks to some folks on this forum I petitioned the Idaho Fish and Game Department some years ago and got that law changed. The .30-30 would benefit if every rifle came with a trained dog!




Local guide and friend, Michael S. uses 3 Austrian tracking hounds. I do not remember the breed's name, but the black and tan hounds are phenomenal trackers, whether for bear or moose.

Not only good trackers, but if the animal is not mortally wounded, they seem to know and will not track it. This is especially important with archery hunts as poor hits will usually heal in a few days, with the Moose being non-the-worse for wear.
Lost non-fatally wounded moose are usually 'collected' later that year, or the next by clients. The animals having totally healed cuts.
By using the dogs, a mortally wounded animal is always found and usually not far from where it was hit. We don't chase game - the shot is made, if poor or not & the animal does not drop within sight, back to camp and get the dogs.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Sarg
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Re: .30-30 in Africa.. [Re: DarylS]
      #324125 - 01/02/19 06:40 AM

I think Bullets/Projectiles do all the work/killing, so good bullets & good stalking/hunting + placement get it done !

These things don't happen all the time for versus reasons .

For the sake of the animals & enjoying your African hunt (less wounding & less lost TF) use a 30/06 with good 180gr slugs to start with, if you shoot your 35 Whelen 338.. 9.3.. well use one of them, again good bullets !

The head PH & I both have our Dachshunds with us on the truck or in the blinds when hunting non DG they help a lot to find animals, then I go get a real tracker if we can't find/track it !

I'm getting better but my eyes just aren't up to it, more so 6-9 hours on a track/animal !



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Ripp
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Re: .30-30 in Africa.. [Re: 9.3x57]
      #324145 - 02/02/19 03:09 AM

Quote:

RIPP, exactly!!!

BTW: Mine and my daughter's experience, of course only reflecting that of many, many others, with the 7.62x39 makes me convinced that the .30-30 would benefit by the use of modern 125 grain bullets and held to only side shots on deer AND held to about 100 yards range would be superior to the old slow 170's whichsupposedly go 2200 fps but in reality only approach 2000. 125's would run about the same speed as the Commie service round. We shot some decent sized deer and in fact, one of the largest we've ever shot was shot by my then-15 or so year old daughter and that being a frontal shot. And THAT bullet due to a long-story...a Wolf HP! Velocity matters on thin stuff and that monsters ran about 60 yards and piled up.

One of the things I appreciate about this forum is the Euro influence here with their experience with tracking dogs.

IMO a lot of those deer and even elk that are thought to have been missed or hit poorly have been actually hit right but so many folks simply are incapable of and worse, simply will not track game or even worse yet, don't care enough to, so a critter that runs 50 yards in the woods is lost. And some states in the US STILL bar use of blood tracking dogs.

Thanks to some folks on this forum I petitioned the Idaho Fish and Game Department some years ago and got that law changed. The .30-30 would benefit if every rifle came with a trained dog!




AGREE with this ..

And I do remember when that petition was going around..that was around the same time there was such a primer shortage and I shot some over to you..maybe?? Gald it worked out.. was talking to some folks last week from Maine while I was in NJ..they were talking about how the lefties are trying to take away baiting in their state.. AGAIN... I suggested they start baiting "them".. just set traps around an area with a lot of free shit on it..they will come in droves..

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
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Re: .30-30 in Africa.. [Re: Ripp]
      #324149 - 02/02/19 04:27 AM

Yes, that was it! All of those primers went bang, too!

"I suggested they start baiting "them".. just set traps around an area with a lot of free shit on it..they will come in droves.. "

One of the funniest lines I've heard in a long time.

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What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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