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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Rifles

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Norsk
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Blaser Rifles:Are they more marketing than engineering?
      #323948 - 29/01/19 05:08 AM


I live in Scandinavia where Blaser repeating Rifles are quite popular.I have inspected and fired quite a few and just do not see where the money goes into these Rifles?

Many of the Rifles owners are convinced they own an example of the very pinnacle of Gunsmithing and hunting prowess.

Personally I see another example of CNC machining and mass production.

I would love to be proved wrong.Please educate me if you can?


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tinker
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Re: Blaser Rifles:Are they more marketing than engineering? [Re: Norsk]
      #323950 - 29/01/19 05:21 AM

I'm not interested in proving anything here, but in my opinion the Blaser system is solid and very well engineered.

I don't own one - the guns are expensive and I'm more inclined to spend my money on obsolete equipment from long ago, but as a modern hunting tool they're in a class on their own.

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...


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DarylS
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Re: Blaser Rifles:Are they more marketing than engineering? [Re: tinker]
      #323951 - 29/01/19 05:28 AM

Couple guys I know locally, love their Blasers.
One other guy had his blow up at the club range.
Reassembled incorrectly, or something. I do not know the story, but
he campaigned hard to have them declared a dangerous design or some such, to no avail.
edited:
I just remembered, just as he chambered a round & before closing the bolt, the rifle fired. The bolt erupted from the action ripping out a chunk of his face.


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Ripp
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Re: Blaser Rifles:Are they more marketing than engineering? [Re: tinker]
      #323957 - 29/01/19 08:10 AM

Quote:

I'm not interested in proving anything here, but in my opinion the Blaser system is solid and very well engineered.

I don't own one - the guns are expensive and I'm more inclined to spend my money on obsolete equipment from long ago, but as a modern hunting tool they're in a class on their own.




I resemble that statement..

I actually do own one--have two barrels, 300Win and 416Rem..
Very well balanced, accurate, quick firing and is a great package to travel with..

IF i were to head to Africa in the not too distant future, pretty sure this is one that would come along for plains game..

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

Edited by Ripp (30/01/19 12:18 AM)


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Postman
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Re: Blaser Rifles:Are they more marketing than engineering? [Re: Ripp]
      #323968 - 29/01/19 11:51 AM

I’ve had several.... An R93, an R8, and two K95s......

My thoughts? ( for whatever they may be worth anyway):

Tolerances are held very tight on all Blaser rilfes I have had opportunity to own or fondle.

The R93 was very ergonomic, relatively light weight and unbelievably accurate..... This one went in for a trade when it went click when it was supposed to go bang far too many times, i.e., almost once every magazine full this unacceptable cantankerous behaviour was evident....... The R93 design is considered by many to be extremely unsafe and there is record of several serious injuries when the bolt lets go and blows much of the user’s face away.

The R8 was built far more robust (and noticably heavier) than the R93.... same design principle but the fact that the manufacturer redesigned the bolt and it’s locking fingers in the manner in which they did would appear to be as close to a manufacturer’s admission that the R93 was truly a dangerous and unsafe design..... So some would say..... Anyhow, I find the forearm much blockier and nowhere near as nice and ergonomic as the R93..... The R8 was also cantankerous and would shoot factory ammo fine, but would not chamber any reloads no matter which of several die sets I used nor whether I used small base sizing dies or not......

I think that if Blaser had built the R8 as a pump action rifle, they would have achieved creating a rfile that is truly fast to cycle, although maybe they didn’t because pump action rifles are frowned upon in many countries and viewed to be nearly as evil as a self loading semi automatic. The R8 cycles very quickly due to the straight pull design but it makes one lift or tilt their head away from the stock to avoid having a cheek or nose getting smacked by the sharp metal edges at the rear of the bolt.... The bolt throw is overly long for most cartridges as there is only one receiver size available and associated bolt throw length. Maybe if a shooter is built with a nice short neck this may or may not be an issue but it sure was for me, being 6’ 3” with a long neck.

Now on to the K95s...... Super light weight, unbelievably accurate, ( so accurate, you wouldn’t be inclined to believe me if I related just how accurate they are!!!). ergonomic to a fault and perfect functioning, each time, every time.... can’t say enough good aboout them.

All the Blasers mentioned above made use of the wonderful and repeatable Blaser saddle mount..... Again, an engineering marvel and something I have total resepect for.

Now back to the question as to whether they offer value to the end user...... I’d have to say they absolutely would if they didn’t exhibit the R93 click vs bang (and in some cases boom vs bang!!!) or the R8 fail to chamber issues.

Edited by Postman (29/01/19 12:28 PM)


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DarylS
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Re: Blaser Rifles:Are they more marketing than engineering? [Re: Postman]
      #323972 - 29/01/19 12:19 PM

Interesting, Postman, must have been a R93 then.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Postman
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Re: Blaser Rifles:Are they more marketing than engineering? [Re: DarylS]
      #323973 - 29/01/19 12:39 PM

Quote:

Interesting, Postman, must have been a R93 then.




Hi Daryl:

Yes I suspect so...... Such a pity because I really really want to like the R93 and there are a few new ones still up for sale at significant discounts, but hell, who wants a rifle that just might act like a Bouncing Betty, particularily if one is shooting it on a very remote hunt with medical help a long ways off...

Edited by Postman (29/01/19 12:59 PM)


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Homer
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Re: Blaser Rifles:Are they more marketing than engineering? [Re: Postman]
      #323979 - 29/01/19 03:49 PM

G'Day Fella's,

Norsk, I have never owned a Blaser R3/R8 bolt gun myself but several mates/customers do, and they love them.

They did have some serious issues, when as you mentioned, the bolts came back into the faces, of sereral of their users.
From what I was told, these were all chambered in .300 Weatherby.
Also, I was told that when this occured, apparently Blaser bought the name and manufacturing rights, etc, for Mauser.
Apparently, this was just as an emergency "Plan B", in case the Blaser R93, turned out to be a dud?
Some time after the above occured, the Blaser R8 appeared on the scene .............

I have heard of the Blaser's being referred to, as "Yuppy Guns" but maybe, only by people that could never afford one?
I have never seen R93/R8 that won't shoot, and by this I meen, finger nail size 5 x shot groups with factory ammo (@ 100 M/Yards)!

Apparently, they also had some issues, when used in area's with high dust levels.
Apparently, if the rifle action and barrel extension was not cleaned regularly (maybe daily?), there could be "A Failure to Funtion" issue.
Not good if, your after dangerous game ...........
Also, this dust aspect, may have been the reason that the Blaser, Tac 2 sniper rifles, seems to have died a natural death with the Military Special Forces?

One of my above mates, gave up taking anything but his Blasers on international hunting trips.
Just for the convienience of taking down the rifle, and packing it in with his clothes, in his suit case/check in luggage.

I do have one issue, with the Christensen Arms Carbon Fibre version, of the Blaser.
The transition of the sporting pistol grip, into the rear action area of this one piece stock, was exceedingly unpleasant to hang onto and made a lump of rough sawn 4" x 2" (or 2" x 4", in the US), feel ergonomic by comparison.

Norsk, whilst I would not hesitate in purchasing a Blaser R8 myself, I'm too old and set in my ways, using 90* Turn Bolt rifle's, to change now.

Hope that helps

D'oh!
Homer

--------------------
"Beware the Lolly Pop of Mediocrity,
Lick it Once and You Will Suck Forever"


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Rule303
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Re: Blaser Rifles:Are they more marketing than engineering? [Re: Homer]
      #323982 - 29/01/19 07:25 PM

Re the R93/ I know the Australian Federal Police tested the holding power of the bolt by breaking of one locking petal at a time until down to just 3. These were spaced equal distances apart. Calibre was either 300WM or 338 Lap, do not know which one. It held.

However if it didn't lock up properly look what happened. Yes all of them have very fine tolerances and as I understand it high maintinance to keep them reliable in very dusty conditions.


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Sarg
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Re: Blaser Rifles:Are they more marketing than engineering? [Re: Rule303]
      #323995 - 29/01/19 09:30 PM

We used to get a lot of clients with the R93, dust & dirt were a issue but amazingly accurate, I read all I could on the mishaps & how strong the action was, I think if a case failed from over load or bad case/loading the escaping gases could flow back into the finger locking breech & open the bolt heck bolt in faces ?

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93mouse
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Re: Blaser Rifles:Are they more marketing than engineering? [Re: Sarg]
      #324001 - 29/01/19 10:02 PM

I own R93 since 1998 - odd 20 years, it was around from dusty october Zim heat to snowy freezing Alpine tops, mud, pouring rains...never failed me.

IMO R8 was mainly a marketing thing since market was getting floded with R93 - they indeed add the removable magazine/trigger part since with R93 you must empty magazine round by round from the top and it might be anoying...all the rest is - give or take - the same, but the trade continued to blossom.

On exploding Blasers - I don't know, must have been some innovative waaaay out of line stuff (I've heard something about reloads with pistol powders but that is just a hearsay...?). With all the laws here in EU (German even more so)...with a tiny hint of flaw (design, material, production...) then there would be no Blaser anymore.

Here is a vid of rifles with obstruction in the barrel - R93 is at 0:43...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4AqMl1A4aQ

Only thing related I remember back in the early days, was a recall of all the R93's since there was a batch of pins from the trigger mechanism that were accidentaly made of regular instead of stainless steel and installed into some rifles - wasn't mine - since every R93 has a "P" stamped on the factory trigger.

http://www.handgunrepairshop.com/blaser.htm

Amyway - R93 works for me and I don't see any reason to change it for R8, YMMV.

P.S. It is a tool more than a rifle tho


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Ripp
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Re: Blaser Rifles:Are they more marketing than engineering? [Re: 93mouse]
      #324006 - 30/01/19 12:23 AM

Quote:

I own R93 since 1998 - odd 20 years, it was around from dusty october Zim heat to snowy freezing Alpine tops, mud, pouring rains...never failed me.

IMO R8 was mainly a marketing thing since market was getting floded with R93 - they indeed add the removable magazine/trigger part since with R93 you must empty magazine round by round from the top and it might be anoying...all the rest is - give or take - the same, but the trade continued to blossom.

On exploding Blasers - I don't know, must have been some innovative waaaay out of line stuff (I've heard something about reloads with pistol powders but that is just a hearsay...?). With all the laws here in EU (German even more so)...with a tiny hint of flaw (design, material, production...) then there would be no Blaser anymore.

Here is a vid of rifles with obstruction in the barrel - R93 is at 0:43...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4AqMl1A4aQ

Only thing related I remember back in the early days, was a recall of all the R93's since there was a batch of pins from the trigger mechanism that were accidentaly made of regular instead of stainless steel and installed into some rifles - wasn't mine - since every R93 has a "P" stamped on the factory trigger.

http://www.handgunrepairshop.com/blaser.htm

Amyway - R93 works for me and I don't see any reason to change it for R8, YMMV.

P.S. It is a tool more than a rifle tho




WOW--the vid with the barrel obstruction is impressive..
Thx for posting that..

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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SharpsNitro
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Re: Blaser Rifles:Are they more marketing than engineering? [Re: Ripp]
      #324019 - 30/01/19 03:07 AM

I owned an LRS2 for a few years in 308, it was a very accurate rifle but it was expensive. The cost of magazines and other accessories was obscene.

For a multi caliber rifle I’m sold on the Desert Technology SRS for a switch barrel rifle. It is much better laid out as long as you can acclimate yourself to the bolt manipulation. It’s also much more affordable and flexible when most gunsmiths can spin up a barrel for it. The only limit is that it was designed around the 338 Lapua so if you want to go with a bigger bore you would have to do some magazine and skin modifications. They just released the A2 version at SHOT last week, they took a little over two pounds out of it so it should be better to carry in the field.

Here is mine in custom Cerakote, it’s wearing the factory 16” 308 barrel, Tangent Theta TT525P scope and a Thunderbeast 338 suppressor.



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Norsk
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Re: Blaser Rifles:Are they more marketing than engineering? [Re: SharpsNitro]
      #324024 - 30/01/19 07:59 AM

Thank you all for your interesting replies.

I cannot remember seeing any guides carrying them in Alaska or seeing any pictures of PH's bearing Blasers in Africa.Despite their quick reloading ability,perhaps it is due to their intolerance of dirt?

I would say that in Norway a Blaser is what many aspire to in a Hunting Rifle.

Personally I just cannot see where a mass produced CNC machined Rifle can command such a high price.


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Ripp
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Re: Blaser Rifles:Are they more marketing than engineering? [Re: Norsk]
      #324027 - 30/01/19 09:33 AM

Quote:

Thank you all for your interesting replies.

I cannot remember seeing any guides carrying them in Alaska or seeing any pictures of PH's bearing Blasers in Africa.Despite their quick reloading ability,perhaps it is due to their intolerance of dirt?

I would say that in Norway a Blaser is what many aspire to in a Hunting Rifle.

Personally I just cannot see where a mass produced CNC machined Rifle can command such a high price.




Its the way of the world my friend... I get your point.. Look at Swarovski, Schmidt and Bender, Zeiss, and Leica do it all the time.. Consumers help set the price..public demand apparently allows them to charge the price and get away with it.. otherwise they would have gone broke a long time ago..

I like mine (Blaser)..have no issues with it, have never had any issues with dirt, but I kind of baby my rifles.. its the poor farm boy in me , but dont think it is better than many other rifles I have.. I did build 2 customs in the past couple years and fankly would never trade them for a Blaser..BUT, they may be a slight bit more in cost as well.. and definitly NO issues with dirt..

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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Ripp
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Re: Blaser Rifles:Are they more marketing than engineering? [Re: SharpsNitro]
      #324034 - 30/01/19 01:07 PM

Quote:


Here is mine in custom Cerakote, it’s wearing the factory 16” 308 barrel, Tangent Theta TT525P scope and a Thunderbeast 338 suppressor.






THAT'S a really nice looking rig..thanks for posting..

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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Rule303
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Re: Blaser Rifles:Are they more marketing than engineering? [Re: Ripp]
      #324056 - 30/01/19 09:09 PM

Quote:

Quote:



WOW--the vid with the barrel obstruction is impressive..
Thx for posting that..




Not really Ripp. That video has been torn to piece more than I care to remember. It was set up to show certain rifles in a bad light. There is nothing to show the obstruction in each barrel, the charge load of each round fired or the calibre. Also the vice seems to be tighter on some barrels than others.

Now if somebody conducted that experiment covering all those criteria and it was done in a reputable laboratory then it would have some relevance.


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Ripp
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Re: Blaser Rifles:Are they more marketing than engineering? [Re: Rule303]
      #324060 - 30/01/19 11:49 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:



WOW--the vid with the barrel obstruction is impressive..
Thx for posting that..




Not really Ripp. That video has been torn to piece more than I care to remember. It was set up to show certain rifles in a bad light. There is nothing to show the obstruction in each barrel, the charge load of each round fired or the calibre. Also the vice seems to be tighter on some barrels than others.

Now if somebody conducted that experiment covering all those criteria and it was done in a reputable laboratory then it would have some relevance.




Good to know..and yes, some completely came apart.. too bad is not credible.
Thank you for the info..appreciate it

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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Homer
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Re: Blaser Rifles:Are they more marketing than engineering? [Re: Rule303]
      #324089 - 31/01/19 08:08 AM

Quote:

Re the R93/ I know the Australian Federal Police tested the holding power of the bolt by breaking of one locking petal at a time until down to just 3. These were spaced equal distances apart. Calibre was either 300WM or 338 Lap, do not know which one. It held.

However if it didn't lock up properly look what happened. Yes all of them have very fine tolerances and as I understand it high maintinance to keep them reliable in very dusty conditions.




G'Day Fella's,

Rule303, I have actually seen this bolt head.
It used to sit on Chis B's office desk (X-Tec/Blaser agents, at the time), as a talking piece.
Typical mind set, and lack of understanding of engineering principles, by the AFP.
If you want a good laugh, I could tell you about how they tested the Glock pistols ...............

D'oh!
Homer

--------------------
"Beware the Lolly Pop of Mediocrity,
Lick it Once and You Will Suck Forever"


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DarylS
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Re: Blaser Rifles:Are they more marketing than engineering? [Re: Homer]
      #324090 - 31/01/19 08:33 AM

Homer - when you said:

"G'Day Fella's,

Norsk, I have never owned a Blaser R3/R8 bolt gun myself but several mates/customers do, and they love them.

They did have some serious issues, when as you mentioned, the bolts came back into the faces, of sereral of their users.
From what I was told, these were all chambered in .300 Weatherby."

You were spot-on - I wonder why it was .300 WTBY?

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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SharpsNitro
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Re: Blaser Rifles:Are they more marketing than engineering? [Re: Ripp]
      #324094 - 31/01/19 09:12 AM

Quote:

THAT'S a really nice looking rig..thanks for posting..




Thanks. I finished up its “little brother” a couple of weeks ago. This one is a 10/22 Takedown SBR with a 9” Tactical Solutions barrel in the MagPul Backpacker stock..



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paradox_
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Re: Blaser Rifles:Are they more marketing than engineering? [Re: SharpsNitro]
      #324101 - 31/01/19 12:13 PM

I owned an R 93 a few years ago, thinking like most that it would an indestructible piece of hunting equipment for rough conditions where I didn't want to take any " decent vintage" items.
Mine , a 7X64 backed out primers from day one. Took it to Africa ( along with a vintage WR 500NiTRO), came up on a Wharthog, closed the bolt and it went " click"
I waiting wondering if I had a hang fire, and finally with baited breath opened the action. There was a very slight indentation on the primer .
Took it back to camp, threw it in the tent , and picked up my 100 year rifle.....problem solved.
Rang the agent upon return home. They informed me I didnt have the action closed properly!!!
I do admit there is a very small amount of " feel" as the action locked, however it was closed sufficently to let the firing pin fall, at least some way.
Following week had a phone from A senior manager at Blaser who kindly offered me a full refund....I took it.
It was and is IMHO a piece of shite.
Whatever pocessed me to use anything other that a conventional turnbolt action, I cant say. I can only say that I too was taken in by all the BS that is written about them. Lesson learned.
To be fair the later model may be different , but I never want to find out, but no doubt the R93 had serious issues.

As for taking one to Africa......never again any engineers rifles for me..

--------------------
Walk softly and carry a big stick


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Rod4861
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Re: Blaser Rifles:Are they more marketing than engineering? [Re: paradox_]
      #324157 - 02/02/19 12:40 PM

I dare say that a modern M98 and a Blaser R8 are both manufactured using similar CNC machines, modern metals and construction methods. No doubt both are marketed to the same high standard. They are also both marketed at and sell for quiet substantial amounts. Are they worth that money? Well I think so!

Which is better? Well that's a personal choice...me I love both. I have hunted with a R8 a bit within the last 5 years. I love it! It's reliable and functional. I also own a couple of new Rigby's but to date I've not hunted with neither. I have hunted a substancial amount with older manufactured 98's and similar like the Brno 602's The hunts of done of late were better suited for the Blaser.

As to the comment about not seeing Alaskan guides carrying them...well I'm not surprised that they don't. All the Alaskan guides that I have met and or hunted with carry good old USA manufactured stuff. Marlin, Winchester, Remington, Dakota and of course the exception to the rule is the good on CZ550. They also have a preference for Leupold scopes... I dare say that if Blaser were made in the USA and were as cheap as US manufactured arms then it would be a different story. I haven't seen too many guides carrying Sako's or Sauers either.

Blaser's make a great product. I don't know if Blaser will still be manufacturing R8's in 100 years from now...it will probably be hard to equal the longevity of the Mauser 98. But I reckon Blasers are soo good that we'll be buying and using them well past my life time.

If you don't like Blasers..buy something you do like. Life is too short to waste talking about things you don't like or appreciate !

Cheers
Rod

Edited by Rod4861 (02/02/19 01:13 PM)


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Postman
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Re: Blaser Rifles:Are they more marketing than engineering? [Re: paradox_]
      #324159 - 02/02/19 02:59 PM

Quote:

I owned an R 93 a few years ago, thinking like most that it would an indestructible piece of hunting equipment for rough conditions where I didn't want to take any " decent vintage" items.
Mine , a 7X64 backed out primers from day one. Took it to Africa ( along with a vintage WR 500NiTRO), came up on a Wharthog, closed the bolt and it went " click"
I waiting wondering if I had a hang fire, and finally with baited breath opened the action. There was a very slight indentation on the primer .
Took it back to camp, threw it in the tent , and picked up my 100 year rifle.....problem solved.
Rang the agent upon return home. They informed me I didnt have the action closed properly!!!
I do admit there is a very small amount of " feel" as the action locked, however it was closed sufficently to let the firing pin fall, at least some way.
Following week had a phone from A senior manager at Blaser who kindly offered me a full refund....I took it.
It was and is IMHO a piece of shite.
Whatever pocessed me to use anything other that a conventional turnbolt action, I cant say. I can only say that I too was taken in by all the BS that is written about them. Lesson learned.
To be fair the later model may be different , but I never want to find out, but no doubt the R93 had serious issues.

As for taking one to Africa......never again any engineers rifles for me..




That’s precisely the behavior exhibited by my (ex) R93..... Click and a small primer dent. sometimes click and no primer dent at all. To say that the bolt wasn’t properly closed would be a fantasy. I hammered it closed rather agressively on purpose to make sure it was closed, locked and good to go.... No joy..... I dumped that rifle pretty damned fast and will be very hesitant to try the latest newfangled technology.......


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DarylS
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Re: Blaser Rifles:Are they more marketing than engineering? [Re: Postman]
      #324162 - 02/02/19 03:55 PM

I don't own a Blaser.
In bolt guns, I have some Mausers, pair of M70's of which one is a Palma Trophy Match rifle, and a 1936 Model 70 hunting rifle.
I also one one Browning, one Weatherby, one model 700 Rem., a model 96 Swede and some ML's bunch of .22's & a shotgun or 3. (I know I'm forgetting some - too laze to open up the safes to see which ones.
The early M70 and the Mausers I trust implicitly - the Browning not as much as the bolt has an issue which means until I get that rectified, it does not go hunting with me, it's for smacking the 1000 meter steel buffalo - over and over ad-nausium (for my brother).

So - choice - #1 - M70 .30USGOVT first, then the sporter Oberdorf 9.3x62 M98, Mauser 98 with Zastava bl. then the Mark 10 Mauser .375/06IMP.

The others are quite simply, - toys.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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