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85lc
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Reloading information for the 9.5x56 MS
      #323202 - 11/01/19 02:29 PM

I am looking for reloading data for the 9.5x56MS. I have a 1910 MS rifle (TD) and reloading data seems to be very scarce.
I have shot the rifle with 57 gr of 4320 and 235 gr bullet and it shot very well.
I am looking for data for heavier bullets.

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Rothhammer1
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Re: Reloading information for the 9.5x56 MS [Re: 85lc]
      #323209 - 11/01/19 10:03 PM

The original Eley - Kynoch were (and are) loaded with 270 grain round nosed projectile to function flawlessly in the Schoenauer magazine. DWM 531 also used a 270 grain RN.



I have used 42 grains IMR4895 with the Hornady #3715 270 grain RNSP in the past.

That Hornady is now very difficult to find (I have a good supply), but the (more expensive) Woodleigh would fill the bill. Woodleigh

From the 1939 Stoeger:
















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Rothhammer1
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Re: Reloading information for the 9.5x56 MS [Re: 85lc]
      #323210 - 11/01/19 10:16 PM

Quote:

I have a 1910 MS rifle (TD)




As did Granddad. I am its custodian and keeper, along with the original fitted case. The M1910 wears a claw mounted Gerard 'B' and has the 'special folding peep sight' and removable grip cap with spare sight bead.







John Forrest Easton, center, with M1910 'Takedown Model' (.375 Nitro Express Rimless 2.25")

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xausa
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Re: Reloading information for the 9.5x56 MS [Re: Rothhammer1]
      #323211 - 11/01/19 10:26 PM

I used exactly the same load to take two deer last Sunday with my M/S 1910, both with the same shot. I'm not sure how it came about, but I shot once, saw one deer fall and another run off. On examination of the site, I found a blood trail leading away from the downed deer and it led me to the second one, about 50 yards away in heavy undergrowth. A very effective cartridge!

IMR 4320 is too slow burning a powder for a cartridge with a case which is practically straight walled, with just enough shoulder to head space on. I wouldn't be surprised if you found unburned powder granules in the bore after a shooting session.


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Daryl_S
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Re: Reloading information for the 9.5x56 MS [Re: xausa]
      #323221 - 12/01/19 05:43 AM

I see no reason for not using about any 9.3x57 data, as most published is (Norma and Vithvouri) in the 35,000CIP range.

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9.3x57
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Re: Reloading information for the 9.5x56 MS [Re: Daryl_S]
      #323232 - 12/01/19 01:32 PM

Quote:

I see no reason for not using about any 9.3x57 data, as most published is (Norma and Vithvouri) in the 35,000CIP range.




I agree.

Gun in good shape should handle similar loads easily, and for a wee bit of safety margin, one could do the standard 5-10% reduction and check for pressure signs.

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Rothhammer1
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Re: Reloading information for the 9.5x56 MS [Re: 9.3x57]
      #323236 - 12/01/19 11:02 PM

Looky what I found: 9.5X57 Data


Caliber: 9.5x57
Number of loads: 3
Showing page 1 of 1


Bullet:
Bullet w.:
Powder:
Charge w.:
Primer:
Velocity:
Group size:
Firearm:


Hornady Interlock RN
270 grains
Norma 202
52 grains
Federal Large Magnum
675 m/s
Mannlicher Schönauer 1910


Hornady RN
270 grains
Norma 201
46 grains
Winch L
575 m/s
Mannlicher m1910


Hornady RN
270 grains
Norma 201
50 grains
Winch L
635 m/s
Mannlicher m1910

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Daryl_S
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Re: Reloading information for the 9.5x56 MS [Re: Rothhammer1]
      #323251 - 13/01/19 05:32 AM

Vit. Manual:
9.3x57 - 255gr. Sako Bullet. 50.9gr. N140 - 2,260fps 3770PSI CIP

From my own 9.3x57 data when working up loads for a model 96 Husqvarna 23.4" bl.necked up 8x57 RP brass. WLR primer

270gr. Speer 48.0gr. H335 - 1,978fps Very Mild .0000" web expansion
270gr. Speer 48.0gr. H4895 - 2,268fps Case web expansion .0000" mild
270gr. Speer 50.0gr. BLC2 - 2,111fps Very Mild .0000" web Exp.
270gr. Speer 52.0gr. BLC2 - 2,300fps .001" web expansion mild
300gr. Hornady (resized) RN 45.0gr. H4895 2,170fps .0001 to .0002" exp. Mild

I would use this data in any 9.5x57 or 9.5x57 without hesitation, starting a grain or 2 lower, of course.

Note in the ctg. description of the 9.5x56Mann. The shoulder diameter is given as .455". THAT my friends is .001" larger than the same case if Ackley IMP, which is .454". The shoulder angle of course, is standard, not Ackley'd. 35 to 40degrees.
The picture of the loaded round is not a fireformed case and looks closer to a 9.3x57, with it's smaller shoulder.
If the rifle in question for this thread does indeed have a .455" shoulder, the data I showed will produce less pressure and velocities than if used in a simply necked up 9.3x57 (which should also be lower pressure and vel. t0o start with)


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Rothhammer1
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Re: Reloading information for the 9.5x56 MS [Re: Daryl_S]
      #323267 - 13/01/19 02:19 PM

Quote:


If the rifle in question for this thread does indeed have a .455" shoulder, the data I showed will produce less pressure and velocities than if used in a simply necked up 9.3x57 (which should also be lower pressure and vel. t0o start with)





Here is the 'OP':

Reloading information for the 9.5x56 MS
#323202 - 01/11/19 07:29 PM
Reply to this post Reply Reply to this post Quote Quick Reply Quick Reply

I am looking for reloading data for the 9.5x56MS. I have a 1910 MS rifle (TD) and reloading data seems to be very scarce.
I have shot the rifle with 57 gr of 4320 and 235 gr bullet and it shot very well.


I am looking for data for heavier bullets.




Clearly, the "rifle in question" is a Mannlicher Schönauer M1910, which is 9.5X57MS - also known as 9.5X56MS, or .375 Nitro Express Rimless 2.25", which "does, indeed, have a .455 shoulder".

How is that a "question" here?






9X56MS , 9.3X57 , 9.5X57MS

Note the lower and narrower shoulder of the 9.3X57, as well as the straighter case of the 9.5X57.


Reeds Ammunition 9.5X57, My handload (from .35 Whelen through RCBS dies, unfired), Original DWM 531, fired case of my reload through M1910


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Rothhammer1
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Re: Reloading information for the 9.5x56 MS [Re: 85lc]
      #323305 - 15/01/19 10:39 AM

Quote:

I am looking for reloading data for the 9.5x56MS. I have a 1910 MS rifle (TD) and reloading data seems to be very scarce.
I have shot the rifle with 57 gr of 4320 and 235 gr bullet and it shot very well.
I am looking for data for heavier bullets.




I realize you're looking for a load for heavier bullets (such as 42 grains IMR4895 with Hornady 3715), but here, just to add to the thread, is a recipe from a previous post of Kuduae's for the 'lead free' 235 grain Barnes TSX (for those who shoot in lead restricted areas):

kuduae
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Re: Aussie Copper for M1910 [Re: Rothhammer1]
#309336 - 12/23/17 06:08 AM

I simply use Barnes .375", 235gr TSX FB bullets, #30486 or 37662, seated out to an oal of 77.5 mm = 3.05", in front of 55 gr VV N140. They function quite wellin my M1910 M-Sch and do the job killing game.These pointed bullets will not work as well if seated deeper.

More from the same thread:

kuduae
.400 member

Re: Aussie Copper for M1910 [Re: Daryl_S]
#309406 - 12/24/17 11:11 AM

Quote:

I have 400 or so 270 grain rnsp (as Hornady 3715) for sighting in and 'paper punching', but live in an area where any lead projectiles are now banned for hunting. Mere possession of ammunition with a trace of lead that will chamber in a firearm one is carrying or has access to while hunting here is now verboten. Hence my quest is for a non - lead projectile of the same profile (or very close to it) as DWM 531, preferably 270 grain.

Reply:

Me too. As I hunt the Lower Saxony state forests, I had to use "unleaded " bullets for 4 years now. I too have used the 270 gr Hornady RNs and still have several hundreds stored away. But by regulations I was forced to change to an available pure copper bullet. As I found, the Barnes TTX bullets have a "curvy", tangent ogive point with a small "flat" hollow point. If seated out to the max oal the M1910 magazine allows, the bullets are held reasonably close to the follower spindle by the bullet guide. Yes, my loads work in the M1910 magazine. Granted, the Hornady RNs worked a bit smoother, but there is little choice now.
Such pure copper bullets are much longer than conventional lead core ones of the same weight. The 235 gr TTX is longer than the 270gr RN, but seated out in the 9x57 M-S = .375 Rimless NE it just fills the case neck. The longer 270 gr TSX protudes into the case body, eating up powder space. So I could not load more than 50 gr N140 behind the 270 gr TTX, giving away a lot of velocity. My load, with the 235 gr TTX in front of 55 gr N140, reads out 2400 fps from my 50 cm = 20" barrel over my chrony.



More:

kuduae
.400 member

Re: Aussie Copper for M1910 [Re: Rothhammer1]
#309445 - 12/25/17 02:08 AM

Quote:

Have you, by chance, any experience using IMR4895 with the barnes copper projectiles? I had been running 42 grains of it behind the Hornady 3715. It's been some time since I reloaded, but I have recently laid in a supply of the IMR. Perhaps I can find a 'conversion' for (x)N140 = (x)IMR4895.


Reply:

No, sorry! The other way around, I sometimes used 4895 data with N140 when nothing was available. Afaik N140 is just a bit slower burning, so reduce my load by about 5%.
I started using VV N140 about 50 years ago, when it was still named "Kemira 16" and came in small 200g, yellow tins. It was then the only rifle powder available to me. Later, the Vihtavuori powders were less pricy than all others and, even more important, always available locally. So there never was a reason to change a winning team. Additionally, here in Germany you are only allowed to store up to 3 kg = 6.6 lb powder at home. This makes experimenting with different brands of similar properties a bit difficult.


An important note, also from Kuduae, to ensure that the cartridges feed smoothly through the Schönauer magazine:

Loaded cartridges for the M1910 should at least have a Diameter of about 7.5 =.30" at 70 mm = 2.75" from the base for proper function in the magazine. Other bullets with very slim, pointed noses will be hopeless, as they may be too slim 8 mm behind the point to be held properly to the spindle.

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85lc
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Re: Reloading information for the 9.5x56 MS [Re: Rothhammer1]
      #323945 - 29/01/19 02:28 AM

All, This is great info. I thought about using loads for the 358 Winchester but I believe that is loaded to s higher working pressure. I just knew that there must be 9.5x56MS shooters that reloaded. Thanks.

I am still looking for a supply of the discontinued Hornady 3715, hoping that a supply house may have some.

Rothhammer1, I had bought Woodleigh bullets before (for a 10.5 Collath) and they are very expensive for shooting paper and rocks. However, they are quality hunting bullets.

Has anyone tried Hawk bullets before and what are your thoughts They are slightly less expensive than Woodleigh.

XAUSA: You mentioned that 4320 is slow for this case (with 235 gr Speer). What powder do you recommend?

Again, thanks all.

--------------------
RB


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Rothhammer1
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Re: Reloading information for the 9.5x56 MS [Re: 85lc]
      #324051 - 30/01/19 05:39 PM

Quote:



I am still looking for a supply of the discontinued Hornady 3715, hoping that a supply house may have some.

Rothhammer1, I had bought Woodleigh bullets before (for a 10.5 Collath) and they are very expensive for shooting paper and rocks. However, they are quality hunting bullets.






Watch Midway for these: Midway



I paid about .26 each for a few hundred of them over a year ago. They weighed proper and had no discernable flaws.

Also watch the auction 'sites (GunsAmerica, ...) for odd lots of the Hornady 3715.

The Woodliegh are expensive, I've never bought them for that reason.

We missed this one, had I seen it I would have bid: GunAuction

Here is headstamped Qual - Cart (9.5X57 MS) brass from Grafs (watch for sale prices on occasion). Midway no longer lists it in 9.5X57: Grafs



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Rothhammer1
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Re: Reloading information for the 9.5x56 MS [Re: Rothhammer1]
      #324103 - 31/01/19 02:09 PM

Here is an old thread from another 'site. There are differing opinions presented regarding the practice of merely fireforming 9.3X57 brass to create 9.5X57MS, some extinct (2007) links to suppliers, and the last post has some recipes that seem a bit 'hot' to me (such as 46 grains IMR4895 behind a 270). /eve/forums/a/tpc/f/4711043/m/801107616/xsl/print_topic][blank]

The person who posted them tells of 35 years experience with three M1910s and doesn't mention any mishaps, but I'm not in a hurry to push mine that hard. The same with fireforming 9.3 brass - no thanks, I'll use dies and / or brass with wide enough shoulders.

This is the post with the load data:

06 February 2007, 19:27sierra2
Reloading the 9.5x57mm is simple, since the bullets are standard .375 diameter and you can make your cases from .30-06 or 9.3x57mm. I have used both routes in loading for three different M1910s since 1972. I started by first using the .30-06 as the "universal donor", sometime later I discovered 9.3x57mm Norma brass, thanks to my Grandfather. The 9.5x57mm is such a mild cartridge that the cases merely expand the tiny amount necessary to build prime 9.5mm cases, which occurs in almost every instance of wildcatted brass anyway. There is no problem to be found using 9.3x57mm as the basic case.

There will be problems if you use a sharply tapered bullet like the Hornaday 270 grain or a flat nosed .38-55 bullet in your loadings. They will not feed reliably thru the rotary magazine. You need to stay with a more "standard" bullet design like the Speer or Norma in any weight from 235 grain to the 286 grain. The Speer has "always" been my go to bullet for the 9.5x57mm. As for loading recipes, "Cartridges of the World" is a good starting resource for data. Use standard large rifle primers, and remember these are 70 to 97 year old rifles. Oh yes, the flat nose 255 grain bullets made for the .38-55 WCF do shoot well in a 9.5x57mm, they just do not feed thru the magazine.
Recipes - Here are some old ones I have used as starters -
235 gr Speer 43.5 gr IMR 4895
270 gr Winchester 45.5 IMR 4895
286 gr Speer 43.5 gr IMR 4895
286 gr Speer 42.0 gr IMR 3031
270 gr Norma 46.0 gr IMR 4895
270 GR Norma 46.0 gr N201
All loads were fired first in .30-06 based cases and later in 9.3x57mm based cases. Another comment, I've standardized on the 235 grain Speer bullet for reduced recoil because of my arthritis.
Also, you can buy perfect NEW 9.5x57mm ammunition from KYNAMCO via
CONNECTICUT SHOTGUN MANUFACTURING CO
of 35 Woodland Street, New Britain, CT 06051-1692
Tel 1 800 515 4867, Fax 860 832 8707
Website : www.connecticutshotgun.com
Email : galazan@aol.com
I have a friend who has purchased several hundred rounds of their 9.5x57mm via the Connecticut source, and he has been well satisfied. AND the cases are properly headstamped. However, their website is a little messed up because the pictured cartridges often do not match up with the actual specifications. I think this is because someone (not a gun person) took the pics from their illustrated catalog which is very detailed, and very confusing.

LLS
Mannlicher Collector

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Rothhammer1
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Re: Reloading information for the 9.5x56 MS [Re: Rothhammer1]
      #324106 - 31/01/19 04:47 PM

An old thread with load development from member Marrakai of the excellent forum, NitroExpress.com : 'Crackers' for 9.5X57

Another regarding brass: 9.5X57 brass

Notice member Daryl's advice regarding the lower and narrower shoulders of some _X57 brass that will require that the necks be drawn straight to allow for a slight 'crush fit' of the shoulder:


Re: ? For 9.5x57 owners [Re: NSW_HUNTER]
#179532 - 04/21/11 05:31 AM


I suggest you first neck the brass up straight,then use a Full Length sizing die adjusted long at first, successively lower to neck the cases back down to proper length to get what is called a 'crush' fit - ie; tight fit when closing the bolt. This will ensure the brass fits perfectly before a shot is fired. The reason for doing this is to ensure your brass lasts almost indefinitely.

The reason for I do this, is so the brass never stretches at the web, as it will if there is even a bit of headspace slop.

Note the properly sized and 'fitted case' has a shoulder height that is .019" higher than a simply necked up case. To fire a simply necked up case in this rifle, would have stretched the case badly at the web, and it would have failed/split into 2 pieces in 2 to 4 firings. The .019" headspace of this rifle is excessive, but totally safe with properly fitted ammo.

Also advice from member Kuduae:

I form my 9.5x57M-Sch aka .375 rimless NE cases from W-W or S&B 30-06 brass, trimmed to 57mm of course. Merely necking up 8x57 or 9.3x57 brass led to problems from excessive headspace. For more on my rifle and load see:

Kuduae post

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