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lancaster
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Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive [Re: lancaster]
      #319317 - 25/08/18 04:10 AM

got this pics from Finland, a M 88 rifle in 8x57 that was given as a challenge trophy by a finnish Civil Guard unit for shooting competition in the 1920s.





unusual as possible, rifle will be in auction next time

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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kuduae
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Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive [Re: lancaster]
      #319322 - 25/08/18 06:39 AM

Quote:

got this pics from Finland, a M 88 rifle in 8x57 that was given as a challenge trophy by a finnish Civil Guard unit for shooting competition in the 1920s.



Not a M88, but a Haenel, Suhl, M 1909, grade St.P.Nr.6, a really rare bird. Most likely made before WW1.
Pic and description from a pre-WW1 Haenel catalog:

Translation:
St.P.Nr.6 Stripperclip loading hunting rifle Haenel system, Model 1909. Bolt with gas shield, bent bolt handle with pear shaped knob; round barrel Krupp´s fluid steel, with silver bead frontsight on short, matted base, standing rear sight with one small folding leaf, with good double set trigger, better stock wood (than grade St.P.Nr.5) and better finish; halfstock with cheekpiece and checkered pistolgrip, sling swivels, all parts blued Mark 95.-
Available in 7mm (7x57), 8mm (8x57I), 9mm(9x57)
Total length about 112cm., weight about 3.150 kg

My own Haenel M1909, "economy" grade St.P.Nr.5 in 9x57


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lancaster
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Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive [Re: kuduae]
      #319328 - 25/08/18 02:06 PM

of course you are right

need more sleep here

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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lancaster
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Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive [Re: lancaster]
      #319417 - 29/08/18 05:04 AM

"Mauser M91 Sporter labeled C.G. Haenel Suhl 1891"
https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/m...15-c-9204b8dbaf

"Description: Mauser M91 Sporter labeled C.G. Haenel Suhl 1891 in 7.65mm. The barrel measures 22'' with a scope block and fixed front sight, the stock extends to 4'' on the muzzle. The butt stock has been altered with a spacer ending in a crescent steel butt plate. The detachable clip is missing. Overall fair condition with a very good base. "



looks like a winchester stock cap, 7,65 would be the 7,65x53 Belgian -Argentine

unusual in all

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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lancaster
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Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive [Re: lancaster]
      #321876 - 26/11/18 10:44 PM

Schilling 8x57I, SN 23146
https://www.walterborg.se/sv/auktion/auktion/h18/kulgevar/5272_4











--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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lancaster
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Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive [Re: lancaster]
      #322800 - 27/12/18 06:52 AM

8x57I
http://egun.de/market/item.php?id=7224499













--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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jebstuart
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Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive [Re: lancaster]
      #326214 - 22/03/19 12:22 PM

Well, after all this time, I think I've discovered for sure that my Haenel 88 sporter has Vienna Snapper Mounts. And, I'm never likely to find ring mounts for them!

Dang that's a shame - it's a pretty nice, original rifle. Now that I know "for sure", if someone can verify it, and that I'll never be able to mount a scope on these mounts, I would appreciate it.

The rifle:







--------------------
The two best shooters get the hindquarters.
The next two get the forequarters.
Fifth man gets the hide and the tallow.
The sixth man gets to dig the lead out of the tree." ((Lem) Sgt. York)


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jebstuart
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Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive [Re: jebstuart]
      #326215 - 22/03/19 12:26 PM

More:







--------------------
The two best shooters get the hindquarters.
The next two get the forequarters.
Fifth man gets the hide and the tallow.
The sixth man gets to dig the lead out of the tree." ((Lem) Sgt. York)


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jebstuart
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Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive [Re: jebstuart]
      #326218 - 22/03/19 12:35 PM


OK, one more time - no kidding:







--------------------
The two best shooters get the hindquarters.
The next two get the forequarters.
Fifth man gets the hide and the tallow.
The sixth man gets to dig the lead out of the tree." ((Lem) Sgt. York)


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lancaster
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Reged: 06/05/08
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Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive [Re: jebstuart]
      #326220 - 22/03/19 01:59 PM

yes, vienna snap mount and it was a better scope for the days
something in the Zeiss Zielsechs class

imho, for a toolmaker its not so hard to make the parts, the rear feet is very simple.

bring it to the lighthouse in the middle of ... and I can let it make here for 250 euro

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by lancaster (22/03/19 02:02 PM)


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Sarg
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Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive [Re: lancaster]
      #326224 - 22/03/19 04:16 PM

That is very nice, Thank you for posting !

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jebstuart
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Reged: 18/01/05
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Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive [Re: lancaster]
      #326227 - 22/03/19 05:56 PM

Quote:


imho, for a toolmaker its not so hard to make the parts, the rear feet is very simple.

bring it to the lighthouse in the middle of ... and I can let it make here for 250 euro




Thank you for the info.

But I'm not exactly sure what you mean regarding getting one made? Can you get one made, including the front "claw" portion?

Thanks again,
Jeb

--------------------
The two best shooters get the hindquarters.
The next two get the forequarters.
Fifth man gets the hide and the tallow.
The sixth man gets to dig the lead out of the tree." ((Lem) Sgt. York)


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lancaster
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Reged: 06/05/08
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Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive [Re: jebstuart]
      #326241 - 22/03/19 09:32 PM

yes. made
don't believe this is rocket sciences! for a tool maker this are very simple parts to make
my old gunmaker was allways making his claw mounts completly at home because the one you can get on the market here were not his taste.


what do you need ? a 6 x scope , best with rail and the old feets

something like this http://egun.de/market/item.php?id=7396866

the old claw mount parts help a lot. you take them from the scope and cut the claws off. having a more modern scope like the zeiss here you also have a windage screw and dont need the screw on the claw mount anymore.this will be your dovetail so you have the connection with the scope.
than you need a forefoot and thats what the toolmaker have to build





sorry for the bad pics, hope you understand how it works.
such a thing have to be made for the measurments of the hooks on your rifle. not the complete part only the base and when it fit its welded on the dove tail








the rear hook is also a very easy part that will be welded on the rear dovetail







with welding every old part can be changed in any direction
http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat....true#Post278582

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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jebstuart
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Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive [Re: lancaster]
      #326267 - 23/03/19 07:43 AM

Yes, that's what I need but I have some questions for you if you don't mind.

1. The space between the front and back mounts seem longer than any I have seen. They're 7.75" (19.69 cm). Do you think I would need a scope with a longer than normal tube?

2. I think the soldered scope to rings (soft solder I hope) is more age correct than split rings, but that means I couldn't set eye relief. Would the toolmaker need the rifle, or at least the barreled action to set the eye relief within its range.

3. The front mount appears to be see-through. Is that correct?



Thanks much for your help.

--------------------
The two best shooters get the hindquarters.
The next two get the forequarters.
Fifth man gets the hide and the tallow.
The sixth man gets to dig the lead out of the tree." ((Lem) Sgt. York)


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lancaster
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Reged: 06/05/08
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Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive [Re: jebstuart]
      #326283 - 23/03/19 04:12 PM

yes, this 19,69 cm is a lot I have to measure 6x scopes to see if this was possible or we had the next bigger class - Zielacht. What ever it was a 8x scope allways looking like a stove pipe. the 6x scopes are more elegant and like I say before welding change in any direction. you have a great selection of second hand scopes on the market from the 1960s and 70s that coming in excellent quality.

soft soldered scope rings are better but I was making it simple for you! this is a LOT of work.
you have to find a steel tube scope in this size thats in good shape. probably such an old scope have to go for an overhaul to a scope specialist before and thats not for nothing.the scope have to be dismantle, the scope is soldered to the rings, the scope is put together and you test the rifle. if you hit the paper you do the next step if not do it again. if it shoots you dismantele the scope again and rust blue everything, then assemble it again.
windage correction for old scopes is made by a more complicated forefeet.
with a more modern scope you have a screw on the right side and dont need it.
I can understand what you mean because I collect bolt action hunting rifles and whenever there is a gun that lost the scope I try to give it a period one.
whats ok for me is maybe a bad advise for you.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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Bokmal
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Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive [Re: lancaster]
      #326367 - 25/03/19 05:54 AM

This Kahles 4X has exactly 140 mm between the mounts. Perhaps a Zielsechs with the front mount on the front lens housing would fit Jebstuarts rifle?



--------------------
Born with the gift of laughter and a sense that the world is mad...


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lancaster
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Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive [Re: Bokmal]
      #326369 - 25/03/19 06:19 AM

hello bokmal

this kahles looks period, the forefoot can be cut apart and welded much more forward to the 19 cm lenght.
such scope mounts are not uncommon with vienna snap mounts. the feet I show above is also in this fashion.










for bokmal only


we try to figure it out now very hard whats the mistake



--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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lancaster
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Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 8664
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive [Re: jebstuart]
      #331007 - 10/08/19 03:21 AM

8x57I made by Thieme & Schlegelmilch - Nimrod Gewehrfabrik /Suhl http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=7531202













--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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kuduae
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Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive [Re: lancaster]
      #331036 - 11/08/19 08:53 PM

Mine, in 8x57I, by V.C.Schilling, Suhl. Early Voigtlaender, Brunswick, "Skopar B" 2 ˝ x scope in original claw mounts.




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lancaster
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Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive [Re: lancaster]
      #333605 - 19/10/19 06:43 AM

Gewehr 88, Viktor Christian Schilling - Suhl, 8x57I, #31647,
https://auctions.springer-vienna.com/en/...p;currentpos=67







Lot 620
O/U Repeating Combination Gun, German, Gewehr 88, 8x57I; 16/65, #D.R.G.M.126513, § C
Starting price 2.500 EUR
https://auctions.springer-vienna.com/en/...;currentpos=141





Detail

60 cm rifle barrel, octagonal at the breech, beneath that a 58,5 cm shotgun barrel, engine-turned rib, open sights, (original additional folding leaf missing), action of the commission Gewehr 88, punched and engraved with foliate scroll, double triggers with single set trigger in front, butterknife bolt handle, shotgun barrel tilting to the right for loading, beneath that a long horn underlever similar to type Collath, manual extractor, choked full, this barrel is fired by a hammer on the left sidenext to the bolt shroud, the adapted flag type safety blocks that as well as the cocking piece of the rifle barrel itself, walnut stock, oval cheekpiece, short wooden fore-end, rifle barrel bears Ferlach proof marks, the bolt head has German proof marks, receiver inscribed „D.R.G.M. (Deutsches Reichs Gebrauchs Muster) 126513, the arm has been reblued (the receiver has probably been colour hardened originally), shotgun bore pitted, stock with a repaired crack on the left hand side on top of the grip, year of manufacture about 1900, the buttstock presumably later replaced, extremely rare sporterised adaption of the Spandau commission Gewehr 88, condition III.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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lancaster
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Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive [Re: lancaster]
      #334107 - 02/11/19 05:44 AM

great old style stutzen M 88 in 8x57
https://www.dorotheum.com/de/l/6462401/#
'C. G. Haenel Suhl' 'Otto Bock Hoflieferant' 'Berlin' on the barrel
starting bid 60 euro and whoever get it- congratulations





--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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lancaster
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Reged: 06/05/08
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Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive [Re: lancaster]
      #334828 - 25/11/19 06:07 PM

textbook example of a C.G.Haenel rifle in 8x57I





























--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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lancaster
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Reged: 06/05/08
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Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive [Re: lancaster]
      #334951 - 29/11/19 12:33 AM

unusual with the tangent sight
https://stiegele.weebly.com/offers.html









--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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tinker
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Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive [Re: lancaster]
      #334954 - 29/11/19 01:54 AM

Nice

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...


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lancaster
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Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive [Re: lancaster]
      #335997 - 31/12/19 05:15 PM

8x57I with octogonal barrel https://egun.de/market/item.php?id=7743994













--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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