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Rell
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Loc: Oyster Bay, NY, USA
What to do when a custom builder delivers a failed project?
      #322343 - 11/12/18 05:46 AM

I’ve just given up on a second 400 Whelen I’ve had built. I reached out to Kevin Weaver a couple of years ago about building me a 400 Whelen a a Sako 85 action I had. It was designed to be a rainforest gun for bongo. MCMillan stock, packnor barrel, express sights and barrel band sling swivel. I have $4,000 in the rifle and it won’t feed or hold more then two down reliably. Basically I have a DG rifle that is a single shot!

The builder stoped replying to me and just claimed it was my error and it worked fine. A load of dishonest nonsense. I have a couple of staff attorneys so I am going to sue the crap out of him, basically on principal. Anything else I can or should do?

--------------------
450-400, 9.3x74r and 7x65r.


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9.3x57
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Re: What to do when a custom builder delivers a failed project? [Re: Rell]
      #322354 - 11/12/18 02:11 PM

Just curious.

Any trouble with empties smacking your scope on the way out of the gun?

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What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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Ripp
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Re: What to do when a custom builder delivers a failed project? [Re: 9.3x57]
      #322356 - 11/12/18 02:45 PM

I had the same thing happen to me last year..place out of Lansing MI..told them they can give me a 100% refund or I'll see them in court..sent the rifle back..after I got my check..so mined worked out..there r some crappy guys out there..but a lot of good ones also..

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ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

Edited by Ripp (11/12/18 04:55 PM)


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Rule303
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Re: What to do when a custom builder delivers a failed project? [Re: Rell]
      #322358 - 11/12/18 04:37 PM

Rell, I hate to say this but you chose the wrong rifle platform for that build. 85 are notorious for ejection and some feeding problems. A good competent smith should be able to fix the problem or realise it is beyond them and so advise.

9.3X57 is on the nail with the ejection problem with brass hitting the scope. I do not know if this can be rectified. If it can't then the smith should have told you this. I agree with your intended actions.


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Sarg
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Re: What to do when a custom builder delivers a failed project? [Re: Rule303]
      #322360 - 11/12/18 06:01 PM

That's strange on the Sako 85, I like the look & feel of them but have had 3 Clients have some type of feeding/ejection problem when shooting Buffalo with me using .375H&H Sako 85's, also funny was I noticed one guy having some type of issue out of the corner of my eye as I was covering a wounded Bull, after when I asked him what the problem was, he said there was no problem BUT it was being filmed & you could see him having trouble with the rifle, I thought these guys just didn't have enough gun time, now I'm a little worried as the other PH I work with on DG is getting a 85 in .500 Jeffery !

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450_Ackley
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Re: What to do when a custom builder delivers a failed project? [Re: Sarg]
      #322361 - 11/12/18 07:27 PM

I've got a Sako Brown Bear in 500 Jeffery, with a 1.5-5 Leupold.
I don't have any problem at all with cases hitting the scope.

DC


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Rell
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Re: What to do when a custom builder delivers a failed project? [Re: 450_Ackley]
      #322363 - 11/12/18 11:36 PM

It’s not a problem with empties hitting the scope. The 400 Whelen has a wider body before the shoulder then a 30-06 and I think there is not enough room in the magazine.

I’ll certainly sue the guy, I have two staff attourneys that I can sick on him endlessly. I’m also going to post Utube and on every forum I can think of at some point. I want this story to be what appears every time someone google http://www.weaverrifles.com .

I’ve had this happen three times and every time they basically tell me it’s my problem and they disappear. The money almost does not matter but I feel like we as a community have so little protection form dishonest and incompetent builders.

I don’t want to sell the rifle into the market but I will probably post it with disclaimers and a real explanation. That or maybe find a reputable builder to see if they can salvage the monstrosity. Obviously i’ll wait until the court case but it’s my base action.

Anyways thanks to the community for letting me vent.

--------------------
450-400, 9.3x74r and 7x65r.


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9.3x57
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Re: What to do when a custom builder delivers a failed project? [Re: Rule303]
      #322381 - 12/12/18 02:15 PM

Quote:

Rell, I hate to say this but you chose the wrong rifle platform for that build. 85 are notorious for ejection and some feeding problems. A good competent smith should be able to fix the problem or realise it is beyond them and so advise.

9.3X57 is on the nail with the ejection problem with brass hitting the scope. I do not know if this can be rectified. If it can't then the smith should have told you this. I agree with your intended actions.




Yup.

I was about to buy a left hand 85 and did the interweb reviews thing on the action. Have no interest in it. It isn't a true controlled round feed action which frankly, means little to me as the worst jam I've ever had was a loaded round that fell into the chamber of a 98 and the orignal extactor jammed it in and of course, being a "pure" 98 would not snap over.

The 85 is more or less a pushfeed 75 with the bottom of the bolt face milled off.

The big problem is that the ejector is located at the bottom of the bolt face....which makes no sense if you want side ejection to occur. I've read so many problems with these actions I assumed the OP's was one more problem action. His last post indicates he may have dodged the common problems. That is good. Some seem to work just fine. Hopefully his is a winner and he can get the issue sorted out with the g-smith.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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Rell
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Re: What to do when a custom builder delivers a failed project? [Re: 9.3x57]
      #322435 - 14/12/18 12:19 AM

The more I stew on this the madder I get. He built me a non working DG rifle, if I had taken. This out ....

--------------------
450-400, 9.3x74r and 7x65r.


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Ripp
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Re: What to do when a custom builder delivers a failed project? [Re: Rell]
      #322439 - 14/12/18 12:33 AM

Quote:

The more I stew on this the madder I get. He built me a non working DG rifle, if I had taken. This out ....




Trust me, I feel your pain.. I had close to $5,000. tied up into mine..they kept lying to me about this and that..send it back and forth twice--finally I told them to shove it up their dark side and refund my money..which they did thankfully.. hired a local guy and had another built that works perfectly..no more long distance gunsmithing for me..sorry..plenty of talent right where I live...

They had the mount screws crooked on the action..put a new scope on it..bore sighting took nearly all the adjustment just to get it on paper..WTH??

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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Ahmed577
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Re: What to do when a custom builder delivers a failed project? [Re: Ripp]
      #322448 - 14/12/18 03:50 AM

If you build a gun outside the norm expect challenges. Apportion 50 % of the angst to both parties. I have experienced the worlds best being 100,000 pounds out on a single gun quote and still arrived at a outcome. I respect the frustrations however these challenges are part of life.

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xausa
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Re: What to do when a custom builder delivers a failed project? [Re: Ahmed577]
      #322468 - 14/12/18 09:32 PM

In the not too distant past I have had two experiences like yours. The first one was with a rebuild of a Farquharson, which I had acquired in Africa decades ago with a shot out 450/400 barrel and had had rebarreled in .500 Alaskan, due to lack of reloading components for the original caliber. Since I rarely shot the rifle in that configuration, I decided that I would restore it to its original caliber. I shipped it off and waited, and waited and waited, with occasional queries as to progress. I finally got back a totally botched job and considered my options. I was furious, of course, but after thinking about it for some time, I decided that taking legal action against someone who was possibly judgement proof was a waste of time. Instead, I sent the rifle to Steve Bertram, who did a job on it which far exceeds "first class" and my expectations.





In the second instance, I purchased a rifle, represented to be a Kurz Mauser which had been custom restocked, from a member of this forum. It was in a caliber for which I already had two examples, and I really wanted to try out the third Kurz caliber, 6.5X54 Mauser, so I sent it to Lon Paul to have it rebarreled. To my dismay, Lon informed me that what I had was not an original Kurz, but a very clever reproduction, which, however, failed to match the original Kurz measurements significantly. The real problem was with the magazine, which was longer than the cavity in the bottom of the action, creating an overhanging lip, making feeding a problem. The magazine itself was shorter than the original specifications and there was not enough metal in the receiver to allow it to be opened up.







I brought all of this up with the seller and he offered to put me in touch with the person from whom he had bought the rifle. I pointed out that I had no dealings with that person, that whatever satisfaction I could expect had to come from him. He contested that the rifle was indeed counterfeit, and I pointed out the many discrepancies in dimensions. He said that he could not return my money because he had given it to a relative to pay for a much needed operation. I offered to return the rifle in exchange for a token payment and a promissory note for the balance, so that he could attempt to get his money back from the person from whom he bought it. I got no response.

Finally, I concluded that the whole transaction was upsetting me more than it was worth. I decided to put the rifle up for sale with an accurate description of it as a reproduction and to forget about trying to obtain redress from the seller. The fact that I can describe this transaction dispassionately now convinces me that I made the right decision. In the mean time, I have obtained another Kurz rifle, one which had been converted to .358 Winchester, of all things, which I will be sending to Lon as soon as his schedule permits. It cost a good deal less and I am completely happy with it. I will leave the seller to deal with his own conscience as best he can.


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500Boswell
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Re: What to do when a custom builder delivers a failed project? [Re: xausa]
      #322484 - 15/12/18 03:48 PM

You can buy New rifles to by ''Reputable '' custom builders, who will sell you a rifle you have to get FIXED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! while they Don't want to know about it !!!!! HMMMMMMMM

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500Boswell
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Re: What to do when a custom builder delivers a failed project? [Re: 500Boswell]
      #322485 - 15/12/18 04:01 PM

By ''customers '' [paid off buddies, shills ,mates rates etc, free gun for you Bro ] who verbally masturbate over the internet how Fantastic their guns are ! then you buy one based on the Reputation, and ''FIND '' you have to get it fixed by a genuinely reputable Gunsmith ! Then tell you, if you have any problems email him, he backs up his product [BULLSHIT] ,Well he wont answer, respond, to emails etc, because he Doesn't want to know about it ,because he drinks Margaritas when he's building guns ,hence the crap he throws out the door, plus he's made his ''money'' so doesn't care or give a crap about the damn customer, EFFFF him, he just a customer !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Rell
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Re: What to do when a custom builder delivers a failed project? [Re: 500Boswell]
      #322504 - 16/12/18 04:24 AM

Thank you gentlemen for the discussion and mental support. My “Irish” is up and i’m out for blood. I’m taking this personally but I also think I have an obligation to the community to change this type of behavior and not let unethical and incompetent builders get away with this sort of thing. I have two staff attourneys so it won’t cost me anything to prosecute and since I am sueing Kevi Weaver personally for damages and the risk he knowingly put me in, a ruling will be enforceable even if he collapses his LLC.

--------------------
450-400, 9.3x74r and 7x65r.


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Rule303
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Re: What to do when a custom builder delivers a failed project? [Re: Rell]
      #322511 - 16/12/18 09:08 AM

Rell, I applaud your decision. It is easy to walk away but if these sorts can be held accountable they soon improve or disappear.

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9.3x57
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Re: What to do when a custom builder delivers a failed project? [Re: Rule303]
      #322517 - 16/12/18 02:16 PM

Rell:

Just a curious question;

Who chose the action?

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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Rell
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Re: What to do when a custom builder delivers a failed project? [Re: 9.3x57]
      #322520 - 16/12/18 04:03 PM

I had the action but I asked if it would be appropriate and I was assured it was. I was told he had done this on this action before, he later changed his story’s and said it he had thought it would be appropriate.

--------------------
450-400, 9.3x74r and 7x65r.


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Karl
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Re: What to do when a custom builder delivers a failed project? [Re: Rell]
      #326630 - 30/03/19 05:17 PM

I once took a rifle to another smith to fix and finish, and didnt have to pay for the errors by the first. I have been fairly lucky with custom guns. Knives and swords on the other hand, good heavens I could never get a break. I have had two top world makers send me sub-standard pieces.

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DarylS
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Re: What to do when a custom builder delivers a failed project? [Re: Rell]
      #326639 - 31/03/19 04:00 AM

Rell, I am surprised. Kevin Weaver is well liked and spoken of as a gun smith on the small bore forum I frequent. Too bad, he seems to have bitten off more than he was able to accomplish.
Here in Canada, to obtain a guilty decision in criminal court, the court must be 96% sure of violation.
In civilian court, only 56% guilt is required.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Ripp
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Re: What to do when a custom builder delivers a failed project? [Re: DarylS]
      #326644 - 31/03/19 05:58 AM

Quote:

Rell, I am surprised. Kevin Weaver is well liked and spoken of as a gun smith on the small bore forum I frequent. Too bad, he seems to have bitten off more than he was able to accomplish.
Here in Canada, to obtain a guilty decision in criminal court, the court must be 96% sure of violation.
In civilian court, only 56% guilt is required.




It is similar here..
Beyond a reasonable doubt..

for civil--has to be over 50% ..or so I was told..

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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iomskp
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Re: What to do when a custom builder delivers a failed project? [Re: Ripp]
      #333526 - 17/10/19 06:56 PM

Hello Rell welcome to the you have been screwed club, I have one that I keep looking at and thinking of putting a drop saw through, every part of the build I paid top dollar for and recieved a substandard job.

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: What to do when a custom builder delivers a failed project? [Re: iomskp]
      #334393 - 11/11/19 11:23 PM

Quote:

Hello Rell welcome to the you have been screwed club, I have one that I keep looking at and thinking of putting a drop saw through, every part of the build I paid top dollar for and recieved a substandard job.






Been there, done that. I don't hire custom projects any more. I've learned my lesson.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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Ripp
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Re: What to do when a custom builder delivers a failed project? [Re: iomskp]
      #334400 - 12/11/19 01:57 AM

Quote:

Hello Rell welcome to the you have been screwed club, I have one that I keep looking at and thinking of putting a drop saw through, every part of the build I paid top dollar for and recieved a substandard job.






So, your saying your not happy??

I have had them go both ways.. 3 of my favorite rifles I use a LOT, are full or semi-custom..

The good ones are like an extension of your body.. the bad ones, just like factory productions can be, should be dealt with as described above.. chop saw..



--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

Edited by Ripp (12/11/19 01:59 AM)


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Ash
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Re: What to do when a custom builder delivers a failed project? [Re: Ripp]
      #335372 - 12/12/19 03:48 PM

Anyone know the outcome of this?

Just gunna add - a .400 Whelen should be built on a Springfield

*edit to fix autocorrect screw up*

--------------------
.

Edited by Ash (13/12/19 06:23 PM)


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