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Ripp
.577 member


Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Winchester Model 71
      #322366 - 12/12/18 03:15 AM

http://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/the-shootist-winchester-model-71/99226#

I posted this as the model 71 Winchester has intrigued me for years.. as luck would have it I found one recently that should be in my possession soon... really looking forward to it..one owner.built in 1951--great condition.. and yes, I do plan to take it out a time or two --open sights, hunting elk in the timber, fresh snowfall ...sounds like pure heaven to me..

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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szihn
.400 member


Reged: 24/06/07
Posts: 2121
Loc: United States
Re: Winchester Model 71 [Re: Ripp]
      #322367 - 12/12/18 03:23 AM

I had one of the Browning re-introductions and I killed a moose with it. I hunting caribou, but never got a shot. I killed a few deer with it too and one antelope. I really liked the gun, but a friend beat me out of it. Overall I would say it was one of my favorite lever actions I ever had.

I think you are about to get involved in a new love affair.
Happy hunting.

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26998
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Winchester Model 71 [Re: szihn]
      #322368 - 12/12/18 04:33 AM

.348 is a terrific 300 yard or closer round. The model 71 Winchester is the perfect vehicle for that ctg.
Smooth running action and lots of power.
The IMP version runs almost 200fps higher & does really well with 300gr. cast FN bullets.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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93x64mm
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Reged: 07/12/11
Posts: 4200
Loc: Nth QLD Australia
Re: Winchester Model 71 [Re: DarylS]
      #322369 - 12/12/18 07:04 AM

Jack Lott talks about a 450 Alaskan in the Big Bore article (Page 28 & 32), the .33WCF necked up to .458 - a vastly different animal again!

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
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Re: Winchester Model 71 [Re: 93x64mm]
      #322372 - 12/12/18 11:27 AM

The case easily achieved 2,200fps with 500gr. Hornady RN's from the 24" bl.

I didn't like the recoil for my use, so set the barrel back almost 2" and re-chambered it for the .458 2", which reamer I also have.

The load I liked, uses 51.5gr. H4198 for 2,150fps with the 400gr. Barnes SP. My .458 Alaskan required 60.0gr. Re#7 to get the same speed and of course, kicked more - thus, the re-chamber
- however, the .450 Alaskan in a strong action is nothing to sneeze at.

Even in the Model 71 Winchester that H. Johnson used, the first rifle thus barreled and chambered, it was doing over 2,000fps with 400gr. bullets & deadly on brown bears as a backup rifle.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5521
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Re: Winchester Model 71 [Re: DarylS]
      #322379 - 12/12/18 02:01 PM

Quote:

The case easily achieved 2,200fps with 500gr. Hornady RN's from the 24" bl.

I didn't like the recoil for my use, so set the barrel back almost 2" and re-chambered it for the .458 2", which reamer I also have.

The load I liked, uses 51.5gr. H4198 for 2,150fps with the 400gr. Barnes SP. My .458 Alaskan required 60.0gr. Re#7 to get the same speed and of course, kicked more - thus, the re-chamber
- however, the .450 Alaskan in a strong action is nothing to sneeze at.

Even in the Model 71 Winchester that H. Johnson used, the first rifle thus barreled and chambered, it was doing over 2,000fps with 400gr. bullets & deadly on brown bears as a backup rifle.



I had both the Winchester and Browning versions. Killed deer and bear with them. The Jap-made Browning was far better made than the Winchester. The Jap was very accurate. The Winchester produced what are common to that rifle's grouping, about 4+ inches for 5 shots at 100 yards. My Winchester had the old Lyman 38 sight on it.

I really like the 71/86 action.

Years ago I interviewed Harold Johnson for a Wolfe Publishing article. Great old guy.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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szihn
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Reged: 24/06/07
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Re: Winchester Model 71 [Re: 9.3x57]
      #322380 - 12/12/18 02:11 PM

My 71 was a Browning, made in Japan. With a load of 4831 and the Hornady 200 grain bullet I could hold 2 MOA or there-abouts with it. I installed a peep sight on it.

I really kinda miss that rifle.

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Ripp
.577 member


Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: Winchester Model 71 [Re: 9.3x57]
      #322382 - 12/12/18 03:20 PM

Quote:

Quote:

The case easily achieved 2,200fps with 500gr. Hornady RN's from the 24" bl.

I didn't like the recoil for my use, so set the barrel back almost 2" and re-chambered it for the .458 2", which reamer I also have.

The load I liked, uses 51.5gr. H4198 for 2,150fps with the 400gr. Barnes SP. My .458 Alaskan required 60.0gr. Re#7 to get the same speed and of course, kicked more - thus, the re-chamber
- however, the .450 Alaskan in a strong action is nothing to sneeze at.

Even in the Model 71 Winchester that H. Johnson used, the first rifle thus barreled and chambered, it was doing over 2,000fps with 400gr. bullets & deadly on brown bears as a backup rifle.



I had both the Winchester and Browning versions. Killed deer and bear with them. The Jap-made Browning was far better made than the Winchester. The Jap was very accurate. The Winchester produced what are common to that rifle's grouping, about 4+ inches for 5 shots at 100 yards. My Winchester had the old Lyman 38 sight on it.

I really like the 71/86 action.

Years ago I interviewed Harold Johnson for a Wolfe Publishing article. Great old guy.



Found this online

Harold’s favorite load in the .50 Alaskan was 51.5 grains (3.34 g) of IMR-4198 with a Barnes 400-grain (26 g) flatnose, jacketed bullet for about 2,100 ft/s (640 m/s) and just under 4,000 ft⋅lbf (5,400 J)of muzzle energy.[citation needed].
The Alaskan is shorter than the .510 Kodiak Express and produces about 10% less energy or 33% less energy than the 50-110, out of a 71 Winchester re-barreled to chamber the 50-110 WCF 6,000 foot-pounds.

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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9.3x57
.450 member


Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5521
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Re: Winchester Model 71 [Re: Ripp]
      #322385 - 12/12/18 04:19 PM

Harold only made one .50. He never called it "the .50 Alaskan", just "the Fifty". He never even quite finished it!

Harold Johnson left Alaska many years ago and started Alaska Diesel. He was over in Seattle the last time I talked to him which wasn't too long before his death.

Here's his company.

https://www.northern-lights.com/alaska-diesel-electric-homepage/

I never met him face to face but in conversing with him on the phone I can tell you he was quite a character and seemed like a guy anybody would want to call a friend. Super personable, funny and very curious.

He didn't like the .348 at all. Mostly blamed the bullets.

The piece I wrote is in the August-September edition of HANDLOADER magazine, page 86. There's a lot interesting info on the background to the .450 and .50 86/71's in that article. He was an interesting guy!

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5521
Loc: United States
Re: Winchester Model 71 [Re: 9.3x57]
      #322386 - 12/12/18 04:28 PM

I asked Harold about whether he had issues with rust under the forearm on the tube magazine guns in the wet conditions and he just "harumphed" and said "When you've been a Marine in world war 2 one thing you learn to do is clean a rifle!!"

Classic Harold Johnson!

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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450_Ackley
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Reged: 06/02/03
Posts: 583
Loc: Darling Downs, Qld Australia
Re: Winchester Model 71 [Re: 93x64mm]
      #322388 - 12/12/18 09:06 PM

Quote:

Jack Lott talks about a 450 Alaskan in the Big Bore article (Page 28 & 32), the .33WCF necked up to .458 - a vastly different animal again!



Might be the 348 necked up to 458, a 33 WCF necked up to 458 is just a 45-70!

I've been using a 33 WCf in an 1886 for Cowboy Silhouette, 250 grain cast bullets certainly knock silhouettes over without any issue.

DC

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Ripp
.577 member


Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: Winchester Model 71 [Re: 9.3x57]
      #322390 - 12/12/18 10:17 PM

Quote:

I asked Harold about whether he had issues with rust under the forearm on the tube magazine guns in the wet conditions and he just "harumphed" and said "When you've been a Marine in world war 2 one thing you learn to do is clean a rifle!!"

Classic Harold Johnson!

..

That is funny..sounds like a really interesting guy..

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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9.3x57
.450 member


Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5521
Loc: United States
Re: Winchester Model 71 [Re: 450_Ackley]
      #322399 - 13/12/18 01:24 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Might be the 348 necked up to 458, a 33 WCF necked up to 458 is just a 45-70!



Yup!

Regarding the .450 AK, Johnson told me he regretted designing the case as he did as he said it took quite a bit of action work to get the rounds to feed 100% reliably. He said if he had to do it all over again he'd simply neck up a .348 case to .458 and call it good.

Also, remember that in those days the .45-70 was almost dead and the availability of .458 bullets was nothing like what it is today. So he was sticking his neck out a bit into the dark. He actually handmade bullets from turned .30-06 cases with molten lead cores. He said they worked well.

As for the Fifty, the only one he ever made, he said he fabricated a barrel band out of a Winchester 94 band and then lost the screw at some point and just wrapped the thing in electrician's tape and left it at that!

RIPP: He was! I really regret I didn't make the drive and meet up with him. He loved talking about AK, rifles, hunting and Back in the Day.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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9.3x57
.450 member


Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5521
Loc: United States
Re: Winchester Model 71 [Re: 9.3x57]
      #322402 - 13/12/18 03:01 AM

Here's the piece I wrote. Maybe this will fill in some blanks.

Used by permission of Wolfe Publishing Company, 2180 Gulfstream, Suite A, Prescott, AZ 86301 USA

https://www.wolfeoutdoorsports.com/handloader-200-august-1999/









--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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Ripp
.577 member


Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: Winchester Model 71 [Re: 9.3x57]
      #322403 - 13/12/18 03:33 AM

Hey Rod..

Thank you for posting this..will print it out an read it at home tonight.. Like that magazine--get it all the time.. You talk to Barsness much when working for them ??? He lives up the road in Helena--does some stuff with a gunsmith I know.. seems like a nice guy...

As to always wanting to talk about Alaska, who doesn't??

Good to have you back on this site.. lots of interesting info ..appreciate it

thx

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
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Re: Winchester Model 71 [Re: Ripp]
      #322404 - 13/12/18 04:42 AM

RIPP:

Thanks!

I haven't written anything for them in years. I don't know Barnsness but he writes some good stuff!

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26998
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Re: Winchester Model 71 [Re: 9.3x57]
      #322411 - 13/12/18 06:47 AM

I also like Brian Pearse's stuff. With handloading, he's pretty much spot-on.

Tks Rod - I recall reading that article.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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93x64mm
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Reged: 07/12/11
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Re: Winchester Model 71 [Re: DarylS]
      #322418 - 13/12/18 07:25 AM

Guess I'm going to throw you a real challenge here Ripp......Keep the old girl as is or rebarrell?
This will certainly be different from your new fangdagled super high velocity jobs that you love so much!
Good to have the 'right' tool for the job.

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Ripp
.577 member


Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: Winchester Model 71 [Re: 93x64mm]
      #322420 - 13/12/18 08:09 AM

Quote:

Guess I'm going to throw you a real challenge here Ripp......Keep the old girl as is or rebarrell?
This will certainly be different from your new fangdagled super high velocity jobs that you love so much!
Good to have the 'right' tool for the job.



Plan to keep her as is.. will check the accuracy and see what loads she does or does not like.. will not change anything ..

I hunted with strictly open sights shooting whitetails back on the farm..want to recreate that as best I can..and hopefully teach my kids some of that along the way ..what I consider true core hunting.. open sights..standing or running game.... If I reach my dirt nap having taught my kids that skill, I will be in happy bug breeding grounds..

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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Ripp
.577 member


Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: Winchester Model 71 [Re: 9.3x57]
      #322421 - 13/12/18 08:13 AM

Quote:

RIPP:

Thanks!

I haven't written anything for them in years. I don't know Barnsness but he writes some good stuff!



SO, a little insider info..a certain writer for that magazine was doing an article about a particular caliber.. lets just say it was in the 6.5 arena... the particular wildcat apparently was too good and would not grant favor to the current crop of 6.5's , like the Creedmoor or PRC.. so the article was pulled from being published..

As we all know, politics are in everything.. sadly...

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
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Re: Winchester Model 71 [Re: Ripp]
      #322427 - 13/12/18 04:03 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Guess I'm going to throw you a real challenge here Ripp......Keep the old girl as is or rebarrell?
This will certainly be different from your new fangdagled super high velocity jobs that you love so much!
Good to have the 'right' tool for the job.



Plan to keep her as is.. will check the accuracy and see what loads she does or does not like.. will not change anything ..

I hunted with strictly open sights shooting whitetails back on the farm..want to recreate that as best I can..and hopefully teach my kids some of that along the way ..what I consider true core hunting.. open sights..standing or running game.... If I reach my dirt nap having taught my kids that skill, I will be in happy bug breeding grounds..



This is exactly what I did with my son. "Bad weather guns" ie iron sighters, for rainsleetsnow we've always kept a couple iron sighters around for that purpose.

As with a lot of medium calibers, so much noise gets made critical of them with references to failures on big bear and whatnot, but most of what we shoot is just plain deer, and let me tell you, a 200 grain Hornady FP moving out of a .348 Win at 2400 +- fps is a BOMB on them!

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26998
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Re: Winchester Model 71 [Re: 9.3x57]
      #322440 - 14/12/18 12:34 AM

Of course, for the heavier stuff, moose, elk and bears, the old original style 250gr. Barnes FN's were fairly well spoken of.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
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Re: Winchester Model 71 [Re: DarylS]
      #322447 - 14/12/18 03:36 AM

Quote:

Of course, for the heavier stuff, moose, elk and bears, the old original style 250gr. Barnes FN's were fairly well spoken of.



Yes, they were. I had a Rapine mold that threw a 260-something flat nosed bullet that shot great. Killed a little bear with it. That bullet had the figure of a No 2 Pencil before it got sharpened!!

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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93x64mm
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Reged: 07/12/11
Posts: 4200
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Re: Winchester Model 71 [Re: Ripp]
      #322450 - 14/12/18 07:20 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Guess I'm going to throw you a real challenge here Ripp......Keep the old girl as is or rebarrell?
This will certainly be different from your new fangdagled super high velocity jobs that you love so much!
Good to have the 'right' tool for the job.



Plan to keep her as is.. will check the accuracy and see what loads she does or does not like.. will not change anything ..

I hunted with strictly open sights shooting whitetails back on the farm..want to recreate that as best I can..and hopefully teach my kids some of that along the way ..what I consider true core hunting.. open sights..standing or running game.... If I reach my dirt nap having taught my kids that skill, I will be in happy bug breeding grounds..



Yes your 'billy lids' may take a while to grow into this one to actually use, but hey it'll stay all original - bloody hard to beat that!
Can always buy one of the new '86's & do that one up!

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Rule303
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Reged: 05/07/09
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Loc: Woodford Qld
Re: Winchester Model 71 [Re: Ripp]
      #322455 - 14/12/18 09:38 AM

Ripp, you have lucked onto a real gem. I remember knocking one back just after I got into shooting. heard about the fearsome recoil of the 348 and hard to get ammo. A few years latter I really regretted not buying that rifle, came from a deceased estate.

Your kids will thank you for that.

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