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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Mannlicher Discussion forum & Archive
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Rothhammer1
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Reged: 06/01/17
Posts: 1826
Loc: The Redwoods of California
Mannlicher Schönauer + Mauser = Mauserlicher
      #322237 - 06/12/18 03:54 PM



From classicarmsjournal.com, Steve Nelson's Mauserlicher: classicarmsjournal



--------------------
Citizen of the Cherokee Nation

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xausa
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Reged: 07/03/07
Posts: 2037
Loc: Tennessee, USA
Re: Mannlicher Schönauer + Mauser = Mauserlicher [Re: Rothhammer1]
      #322246 - 06/12/18 09:45 PM

I visited Steve in his shop several years ago and he was kind enough to show me the prototype of this ingenious action. The receiver and magazine are Mannlicher, the bolt Mauser. The slot in the Mannlicher receiver bridge has been closed to allow locating the rear scope mount base on the bridge.

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JDL
.333 member


Reged: 25/12/10
Posts: 252
Loc: Louisiana
Re: Mannlicher Schönauer + Mauser = Mauserlicher [Re: xausa]
      #322249 - 07/12/18 12:59 AM

Certainly is a lovely piece! Since I think the M/S and M.98 are the finest 2 designs ever made, I would like to see this one up close and personal. Could the bolt be as smooth as an unmodified M/S? Is the ejector Mauser or Mannlicher? Would love to have an in depth report.

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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5521
Loc: United States
Re: Mannlicher Schönauer + Mauser = Mauserlicher [Re: JDL]
      #322267 - 07/12/18 04:06 PM

I would very much like to see pics and description of the heat treatment process. I'm curious about the added material and weld which appears substantial.

For that matter, I'm really curious in seeing how actions are quenched, the medium and process.
Seems a simple dunk would cause variable response to the quench medium and possible warping as well. Anybody know or have a link?

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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Vladymere
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Reged: 11/08/15
Posts: 187
Loc: North Carolina, USA
Re: Mannlicher Schönauer + Mauser = Mauserlicher [Re: 9.3x57]
      #322282 - 08/12/18 04:57 AM

Why would heat treatment be necessary? If the rear bridge was tig welded then the receiver likely would not have been heated to a point to damage it's original heat treatment except at the weld lines in the rear bridge.

I'm guessing that Mannlicher actions where case hardened like Mauser receivers. This case hardening was done for the sole purpose of wear reduction of the sliding/rotating action of the bolt. The elasticity of the selected steel for the manufacturing of the receivers is what maintains the receiver shape/dimensions against the pressures of firing cartridges.

I'm not an engineer or machinist I just dabble so what the heck do I know.

Vlad

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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
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Re: Mannlicher Schönauer + Mauser = Mauserlicher [Re: Vladymere]
      #322286 - 08/12/18 05:28 AM

Quote:

Why would heat treatment be necessary? If the rear bridge was tig welded then the receiver likely would not have been heated to a point to damage it's original heat treatment except at the weld lines in the rear bridge.

I'm guessing that Mannlicher actions where case hardened like Mauser receivers. This case hardening was done for the sole purpose of wear reduction of the sliding/rotating action of the bolt. The elasticity of the selected steel for the manufacturing of the receivers is what maintains the receiver shape/dimensions against the pressures of firing cartridges.

I'm not an engineer or machinist I just dabble so what the heck do I know.

Vlad



Click on the link. Pix show the front ring welded, etc. So I'd think a new process would need to be applied.

He said he was going to have the entire action case-hardened. Now one doesn't necessarily show bright colors as a result but there is no evidence of that on the action pictured. Maybe it was. My question was generally applied to action-making in general. Some are case hardened, some are not. Mausers are, and without the case the action would deform under operating stresses at various contact points. I don't know what processes were used nor what materials were used in the manufacture of Mannlichers. Maybe the same as Mausers? Vintage Mausers tend to be from what I've read low carbon simple steels underneath the case.

Other actions {modern} are not case hardened but rather use different materials and involve a heat treatment regimen. I don't know exactly how that is applied and I'd be interested in seeing it done. Regarding known-problem actions, IIRC whereas some low-number Springfields were actually burnt during heat treatment and thus causing failure of the crystalline structure, Eddystone actions were not burnt, but rather not tempered to low enough of a temperature, thus leaving them brittle. Some Husqvarna 96/38 actions are reported to be brittle likely for the same reason as the Eddystones. I'd still like to see the actual quench process. Hatcher's Notebook has a pretty extensive section on receiver heat treatments but doesn't really show clear fixtures, etc, used.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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Vladymere
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Reged: 11/08/15
Posts: 187
Loc: North Carolina, USA
Re: Mannlicher Schönauer + Mauser = Mauserlicher [Re: 9.3x57]
      #322287 - 08/12/18 07:01 AM

"Click on the link. Pix show the front ring welded, etc. So I'd think a new process would need to be applied."

Well that changes things.

" Mausers are, and without the case the action would deform under operating stresses at various contact points. I don't know what processes were used nor what materials were used in the manufacture of Mannlichers. Maybe the same as Mausers? Vintage Mausers tend to be from what I've read low carbon simple steels underneath the case."

Mausers where case hardened to prevent wear and no other reason, not to prevent deformation under operation stresses. The case hardening also prevented lug setback. A Mauser receiver could be used without case hardening but in time lug setback would occur and galling and wear would occur to the bolt guide channels.

There where reports of receiver ring stretch in small ring large barrel shank receivers, (Kar.98a and Kar.98az), but as far as I know that is strictly anecdotal and no actual examples exist.

Again, I am not an engineer nor a machinist, just a dabbler. As a result of my dabbeling I have coined the statement "I learn by doing. I often learn what not to do."

Vlad

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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
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Re: Mannlicher Schönauer + Mauser = Mauserlicher [Re: Vladymere]
      #322293 - 08/12/18 11:52 AM

Quote:

Mausers where case hardened to prevent wear and no other reason, not to prevent deformation under operation stresses. The case hardening also prevented lug setback. A Mauser receiver could be used without case hardening but in time lug setback would occur and galling and wear would occur to the bolt guide channels.



Lug seat setback IS...."deformation".

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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Vladymere
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Reged: 11/08/15
Posts: 187
Loc: North Carolina, USA
Re: Mannlicher Schönauer + Mauser = Mauserlicher [Re: 9.3x57]
      #322300 - 08/12/18 03:19 PM

"Lug seat setback IS...."deformation"."

You are correct 9.3x57. I was thinking along the lines of stretch, twist or catastrophic failure.

Vlad

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