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Louis
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Re: Can- the 264-Winchester-mag -rise-from-dead?? by Spoomer [Re: Ripp]
      #321974 - 29/11/18 02:01 AM

Nitrox, I think we are not on the same wave length; either was I not clear enough or you missed my point? My aim was never to compare between the .264 Win Mag and other calibres - this is always a subjective issue that can quickly turn into tilting to windmills, but analyse commercial market conditions that can either result in a calibre gradually becoming a niche/lost one or a widely used/recognized one.

Ripp, thank you for putting things back into perpective.

Louis

--------------------
"Everything that doesn't kill me makes me stronger"


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tinker
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Re: Can- the 264-Winchester-mag -rise-from-dead?? by Spoomer [Re: Louis]
      #321975 - 29/11/18 02:31 AM

When I was asked why about my choice of 264 for my recent project I cited the good bullet selection and performance for Western application (I live in the West) and the big case capacity which could give me the chance to use my big pile of US869 powder which I got super cheap. The barrel was free the action was essentially free, and the stock wood was basically abandoned.

And the caliber choice would make some of the more opinionated fellows cry - minor factor, but a factor anyway.

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...


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Ripp
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Re: Can- the 264-Winchester-mag -rise-from-dead?? by Spoomer [Re: tinker]
      #321991 - 29/11/18 07:49 AM

[quote
And the caliber choice would make some of the more opinionated fellows cry - minor factor, but a factor anyway.




THAT made me giggle a bit..
Enjoy your sense of humor..

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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Homer
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Re: Can- the 264-Winchester-mag -rise-from-dead?? by Spoomer [Re: Ripp]
      #322051 - 01/12/18 10:23 AM

Quote:

[quote
And the caliber choice would make some of the more opinionated fellows cry - minor factor, but a factor anyway.




THAT made me giggle a bit..
Enjoy your sense of humor..




+1
Homer

--------------------
"Beware the Lolly Pop of Mediocrity,
Lick it Once and You Will Suck Forever"


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DarylS
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Re: Can- the 264-Winchester-mag -rise-from-dead?? by Spoomer [Re: Homer]
      #322055 - 01/12/18 12:15 PM

I think a fast twist 6.5 big case would be fun. I might have tried the 6.5x68, though - more fun from the 'WHAT IS THAT?" crowd.
Harder to find brass, oh well.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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9.3x57
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Re: Can- the 264-Winchester-mag -rise-from-dead?? by Spoomer [Re: DarylS]
      #322058 - 01/12/18 12:47 PM

I had a .264 Win Mag for a number of years. I shot deer, elk, coyotes and ground squirrels with it. The ballistics are awesome and there's little kick.

That's the good part.

The bad part is it took a long time to find a load that would shoot accurately {I never was 100% happy with that} and...I had inexplicable pressure problems with mine. Ruger couldn't figure out why the gun blew primers and it frustrated them so much they just went ahead and rebarrelled it for me for free. That took care of the pressure problems. A friend has been shooting .264 Win Mags for years and has about 6 of them and more have passed thru his hands. He has experienced the exact same issues I have. Finicky accuracy issues and pressure problems as well. Really weird. I've never heard of this from other calibers and since my experience is, even including my friend's, limited, have no explanation for it. Loads that were fine in other rifles {including factory loads} caused blown primers. Acceptable loads in the problem rifles produced unacceptably low velocities.

Myself, reflecting back, I think I'd take a 6.5/06 or a necked down 9.3x62 and be happy. I don't think the extra powder capacity in the Win mag does much and it may be that the configuration of the case or something is a cause of some of the pressure spikes we saw. Who knows.

We are nuts for the 6.5 bore size. We've had 6 6.5x55's from CZ, Ruger, Howa and SAKO not to mention Husqvarna-made surplus guns. Used them on elk, deer, yotes, etc. My favorite caliber. One of my sons-in-law just bought a Creedmor and went out and killed a deer with it, but we'll see how it turns out over time.

--------------------
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gawein
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Re: Can- the 264-Winchester-mag -rise-from-dead?? by Spoomer [Re: 9.3x57]
      #322069 - 02/12/18 03:53 AM

I have custom made Tikka 264WM 660mm barrel,8 inch twist, light contoured with cannels. Now I shoot 160 gr Hornady RN on 970 m/s and almost 5000 J energy. Accuracy half of MOA. I used it only for hog hunting for max 200 meters. With thermo scope is superb hogkiller, flat shooting hammer.I have some other good loads with long range bullets. My opinion is- super caliber easily reloadable, light recoil and very accurate hunting cartridge.

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tinker
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Re: Can- the 264-Winchester-mag -rise-from-dead?? by Spoomer [Re: gawein]
      #322074 - 02/12/18 06:44 AM

160gr at 970 m/s is a smoking load!

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...


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DarylS
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Re: Can- the 264-Winchester-mag -rise-from-dead?? by Spoomer [Re: gawein]
      #322075 - 02/12/18 06:55 AM

I sold a Parker Hale - or maybe it was called "Inland" .264 Mag. English made Mauser to a fellow back in 1976 from the gun shop I worked at for a shot period of time. I started loading for him as factory ammo blew the primers right out of the case, expanding the pockets so we ended up sending it back to the distributor as well. It blew primers with anything over the starting loads in the Lyman #45 manual. I don't know what the velocities were - but it was downright scary with the factory 140gr. the fellow bought. We got a refund and he bought a Winchester m70A .243 for the little Island deer.
The one I had worked just fine, although was a bit slow - only 50fps faster than my .260 CLC, but used 33gr. more powder to do it. 'Course, the CLC had a 26" bl. and the .264 mag. was Winchester's fast 22"er.
In a 26" or 28" bl. it would be a great mountain rifle.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Ripp
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Re: Can- the 264-Winchester-mag -rise-from-dead?? by Spoomer [Re: gawein]
      #322103 - 02/12/18 03:37 PM

Quote:

I have custom made Tikka 264WM 660mm barrel,8 inch twist, light contoured with cannels. Now I shoot 160 gr Hornady RN on 970 m/s and almost 5000 J energy. Accuracy half of MOA. I used it only for hog hunting for max 200 meters. With thermo scope is superb hogkiller, flat shooting hammer.I have some other good loads with long range bullets. My opinion is- super caliber easily reloadable, light recoil and very accurate hunting cartridge.




THAT is a very hot load...imho

As to the final comments,couldnt agree more and my results as well..easy to load for..mild recoil.. very flat shooting..and accurate..in my rifle factory Nosler loads shoot very well..going to try the ELD-X next...

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Can- the 264-Winchester-mag -rise-from-dead?? by Spoomer [Re: Ripp]
      #353993 - 03/06/21 04:26 PM

I will never have a .264 Win Mag, nor a 6.5 mm Creedmoor.

But I may well add a 26" barrel 6.5x68 to my list of 6.5's oneday. If I could get a custom barrelled M03 6.5x68 barrel I would get it yesterday.

It is deficiently missing from my line up"
6.5x53R;
6.5x54 M-S;
6.5x55;
6.5x65 RWS.

I have mainly used the 6.5x55 out of these. One of the original 6.5s and still probably about the best.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

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264
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Re: Can- the 264-Winchester-mag -rise-from-dead?? by Spoomer [Re: NitroX]
      #353999 - 03/06/21 09:24 PM

Didn't realise it was dead. My favourite calibre Started with adverts in the outdoor magazine when I was a kid. Finally found a push feed M70 and used it for years. Chris now ownes it and has taken plenty of game with it. I imported a M70 featherweight and liked it but the Pre 64 bug got a hold of me and now I have a pre 64 in 264WM.
Great cal with good ballistics, I run 125 partitions, 120 ACP's, 140 accubonds and 140 PPSN's. Kills well, great on fallow.
winchester Pre 64 M70 264WM 140 accubond

build up boar 264WM 140 PPSN

Chris Tahr 264WM 120 TTSX M70


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Ripp
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Re: Can- the 264-Winchester-mag -rise-from-dead?? by Spoomer [Re: 264]
      #354001 - 03/06/21 10:59 PM

Quote:

Didn't realise it was dead. My favourite calibre Started with adverts in the outdoor magazine when I was a kid. Finally found a push feed M70 and used it for years. Chris now ownes it and has taken plenty of game with it. I imported a M70 featherweight and liked it but the Pre 64 bug got a hold of me and now I have a pre 64 in 264WM.
Great cal with good ballistics, I run 125 partitions, 120 ACP's, 140 accubonds and 140 PPSN's. Kills well, great on fallow.
winchester Pre 64 M70 264WM 140 accubond





Agree with you --the 264Win. mag is an awesome caliber.. have used it myself for elk, deer, pronghorn, etc.. very accurate and very hard hitting..

Like you, was bitten by the bug some time ago in regards to this caliber.. will always have one or more.. just a very good all around caliber..

BTW, Great pics--congrats...

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

Edited by Ripp (03/06/21 11:08 PM)


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Ripp
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Re: Can- the 264-Winchester-mag -rise-from-dead?? by Spoomer [Re: 264]
      #354146 - 07/06/21 08:40 AM

Quote:

Didn't realise it was dead. My favourite calibre Started with adverts in the outdoor magazine when I was a kid. Finally found a push feed M70 and used it for years. Chris now ownes it and has taken plenty of game with it. I imported a M70 featherweight and liked it but the Pre 64 bug got a hold of me and now I have a pre 64 in 264WM.
Great cal with good ballistics, I run 125 partitions, 120 ACP's, 140 accubonds and 140 PPSN's. Kills well, great on fallow.




Thought of you the other day, as I was visiting a local gun shop a family was selling off their fathers Winchester collection..there was for sale a :

1963 MANUFACTURE,BLUE STEEL,WALNUT STOCK,BOLT ACTION RIFLE.BUTT PAD REPLACED. 90% condition.. $1200. USD .. seemed really cheap.. was not 100% factory original but nice and useable..there were also 3 others, pre-64 in 300 H&H...

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ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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DarylS
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Re: Can- the 264-Winchester-mag -rise-from-dead?? by Spoomer [Re: Ripp]
      #354147 - 07/06/21 09:21 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Didn't realise it was dead. My favourite calibre Started with adverts in the outdoor magazine when I was a kid. Finally found a push feed M70 and used it for years. Chris now ownes it and has taken plenty of game with it. I imported a M70 featherweight and liked it but the Pre 64 bug got a hold of me and now I have a pre 64 in 264WM.
Great cal with good ballistics, I run 125 partitions, 120 ACP's, 140 accubonds and 140 PPSN's. Kills well, great on fallow.
winchester Pre 64 M70 264WM 140 accubond





Agree with you --the 264Win. mag is an awesome caliber.. have used it myself for elk, deer, pronghorn, etc.. very accurate and very hard hitting..

Like you, was bitten by the bug some time ago in regards to this caliber.. will always have one or more.. just a very good all around caliber..

BTW, Great pics--congrats...




I also heard about the .264WinMag. At the time, I thought it was a bit big for the groundhogs back in Ontario at the time, so I bought a 6.5RemMag instead. Killed a lot of hogs with it, using 87gr. Hornady HP's with 60gr. H414 and 100gr. Speer HP's loaded with 56gr. same powder. It was dynamite on 11-13 pound ground hogs. My late buddy Warren, used to say "lets see how high you can lift this one!" It was just a big WHOP - then slow motion air time!
No - not a .264 - that one hung on longer than the shorter Remington.
I did end up with a Winchester post 64 m70 in .264", but with the ridiculous 22" bl. my daughter's .260 CLC matched it for speed - 3,308fps with 120gr. XLC's.(blue coated X bullets)

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Louis
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Re: Can- the 264-Winchester-mag -rise-from-dead?? by Spoomer [Re: Ripp]
      #354471 - 21/06/21 06:26 AM

Why I wouldn’t consider hunting with a .264 Winchester or 6,5x68 today?

Please forgive this a bit provocative title, I just made it for the fun of it!

I have dream in my late-teens of owning a .264 Winchester Magnum when I started briefly with a .270 Winchester before engaging on an almost life long love affair with the 7x64 (and the like); this was in the mid-seventies, we were at the peak of the “magnumite” period, all standard calibres that had properly dispatched game for more than 50 years were then considered obsolete and the most common appraisal was that there was no future outside of magnum calibres.

I have almost 50 years later had enough time for refining this youth assessment and do not anymore dream of hunting with a .264 or 6,5x68 owing to cost and ballistics reasons - bearing in mind that I do not reload but buy factory ammunition, as well as for the associated rifles’ weight and recoil ones.

Ballistics reasons
Fifty years ago, the shelf choice for factory ammunition was quite limited compared to what it is today, and ballistic performances for standard calibres had not made much improvement since the post-WW2 period; the .264 and 6,5x68 offered then much better ballistic performances than standard calibres such as the .270 and 7x64 did.

This is not anymore true today for European ammunition: the RWS 7x64 with a KS 8 grams/123 grains has a MRD of 195m and a drop of 22,6cm / 8,8in at 300m (I know this is not only marketing data for using this ammunition widely) is now on par with the 6,5x68 with same bullet, which MRD is of 197m for a drop of 20,9cm / 8,2in at 300m.





This is probably also true for the US counterpart. I had a quick look at www.hendershot.net, which gave muzzle velocities of 3100 ft/sec for the .264 and .3000 ft/sec for the .270, both using 130 grains Barnes TSX bullets.

Cost reasons
RWS (box of 20): 7x64 KS 8 grams @ Euro69 vs 6,5x68 KS 8 grams @ Euro110 – Price difference +60%
Hendershot (box of 20): .264 with Barnes 130grains TSX bullet @ USD80 vs .270 with same bullet @ USD58 – Price difference +38%

Weight reasons & associated recoil
Magnum calibres require stronger actions and longer barrels, hence heavier rifles, which is not always compatible with long hunting days, moreover in difficult conditions; unless being as fit as Sylvester Stallone in Rambo III, who could afford carrying a M60, a RPG7 and an AK47 plus associated ammunition over the Afghan mountains without apparently noticing their weight. My Mauser 66 in 7x64 weighs 3,1kg unscoped while her sister 66S in 8x68S (6,5x68 has similar weight) weighs 3,6kgs; 500 grams or c. over 1 pound make a huge difference when every gram/ounce counts when packing!

Last, recoil may also be an issue for some hunters when shooting magnum ammunition, mainly if the rifles are light.

So, while I must reckon that the .264, the 6,5x68 and the like are really excellent calibres, they do not me dreaming anymore due to the fact that alternatives offering similar ballistics at more palatable cost and rifles’ lower weight with less recoil are now available on the market.

Louis

--------------------
"Everything that doesn't kill me makes me stronger"


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Louis
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Re: Can- the 264-Winchester-mag -rise-from-dead?? by Spoomer [Re: Louis]
      #354472 - 21/06/21 07:01 AM

I just noticed I already drafted an almost similar post in November 2018; I may have started to loose my marbles!
Louis

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Can- the 264-Winchester-mag -rise-from-dead?? by Spoomer [Re: Louis]
      #354482 - 21/06/21 05:20 PM

Quote:

So, while I must reckon that the .264, the 6,5x68 and the like are really excellent calibres, they do not me dreaming anymore due to the fact that alternatives offering similar ballistics at more palatable cost and rifles’ lower weight with less recoil are now available on the market.

Louis




What are the barrel lengths in your charts?

One can always take a magnum calibre of a smaller size and compare it to a larger calibre. less bore friction, similar weight bullet, similar velocity, slightly worse trajectory.

.284 less .264 = .02 difference.

One could probably show a similar result say for a hot .358 compared to say a slower .375 as well.

But your illustration does show how older classic cartridges still perform well and can kill just as well as more modern flat hotter shooters.

The 6.5x55 is a classic example, invented before 1900.

It would be interesting to compare say 140 gr projectiles.

And I wouldn't use a 123 gr in a 7 mm I would choose a 150 or 160 gr projectile. 125 gr to 140 grs is about right in a 6.5 while 140 to 160 grs is right in 7 mm. IMO from my armchair.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


Edited by NitroX (21/06/21 05:24 PM)


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Louis
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Re: Can- the 264-Winchester-mag -rise-from-dead?? by Spoomer [Re: NitroX]
      #354485 - 21/06/21 06:29 PM

John
Barrel lengths in the RWS tables are 60 cm / 23,6 in for standard calibres and 65 cm / 25,6 cm for magnum ones.
With regards to bullet weights for 7 mm calibres you're right for the theory; for the practice I leave the rifles deciding and I select the bullets type & weight that give the best accuracy result. For my 7x64 Mauser 66 and 7x65R kipplauf, accuracy is best with the KS bullet in 8 grams / 123 grains while for the 7x64 Mannlicher Schoenauer and Dumoulin it is with KS bullet in 10,5 gr / 162 grains.
Louis

--------------------
"Everything that doesn't kill me makes me stronger"


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Louis
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Re: Can- the 264-Winchester-mag -rise-from-dead?? by Spoomer [Re: Louis]
      #354486 - 21/06/21 07:37 PM

Sorry for the typo, read "65 cm / 25,6 in for magnum ones" in the above post.
Louis

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"Everything that doesn't kill me makes me stronger"


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Ripp
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Re: Can- the 264-Winchester-mag -rise-from-dead?? by Spoomer [Re: Louis]
      #354488 - 21/06/21 11:25 PM

Quote:

I just noticed I already drafted an almost similar post in November 2018; I may have started to loose my marbles!
Louis




Good news is, at least you noticed...

--------------------
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Ripp
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Re: Can- the 264-Winchester-mag -rise-from-dead?? by Spoomer [Re: Ripp]
      #354489 - 21/06/21 11:33 PM

When loaded to equal pressures the 270 Winchester that so many women prefer will not perform on the same level as the .264 Win Mag. The 264 has WAY more case capacity along with normally more efficient bc bullets..

This site provides some using info regarding case capacity:

https://www.chuckhawks.com/rifle_case_capacity.htm

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ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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