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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Mauser Discussion Forum

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C_Davidson
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Reged: 31/12/11
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Loc: USA
9mm bullets for Mauser
      #321899 - 27/11/18 12:04 PM

Just for the heck of it I recently bought an excellent 9x57 barrel threaded for a small ring action. I'm thinking of putting it on a Turk 98 action as I have extra standard length Mauser stocks. However I'd prefer to put the barrel on a shorter pre 98 action I want to save my short Mexican actions for other projects.

I can't find 9mm rifle bullets anywhere here in the States. I've tried searching for them in Europe but am not proficient enough in German particularly to find what I'm looking for. Do 9mm rifle bullets still exist?

I'll be happy shooting cast bullets, but like some jacketed ones if I can find them?


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9.3x57
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Re: 9mm bullets for Mauser [Re: C_Davidson]
      #321900 - 27/11/18 12:19 PM

Any lead core .358 diameter bullet {rifle or pistol} can be resized to fit your rifle. Also, you can use 9mm pistol bullets for plinkers and such. And, you can size 9.3 bullets down from .366 to 35-whatever yours actually slugs. Just make sure you have enough chamber relief for the cartridge neck.

I size .375 cal bullets for 9.3 rifles and they work just fine.

There are MANY bullets available for your 9x rifle.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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pjaln
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Re: 9mm bullets for Mauser [Re: 9.3x57]
      #321901 - 27/11/18 12:22 PM

sent a pm....paul

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Viking338
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Re: 9mm bullets for Mauser [Re: pjaln]
      #321913 - 27/11/18 11:04 PM

I would have thought with 35 Whelan being so popular 9mm/.358 projectiles would be easy to find

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kuduae
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Re: 9mm bullets for Mauser [Re: Viking338]
      #321917 - 28/11/18 01:03 AM

The nominal bullet diameter of the 9x57 aka 9mm Mauser is 9.08 mm = .3575". Here in Germany American .358" bullets are used as is usually. The tiny difference of half a thousands inch does not matter, as it is well inside the old manufacturing tolerances. CIP max pressure is 2800 bar. Two pressure tested loads once recommended by the DEVA:
.358" 250 gr Speer or Hornady bullet,
46 gr IMR 4895 for 2200 fps at 2386 bar
47 gr VV N140 for 2200 fps at 2342 bar


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Daryl_S
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Re: 9mm bullets for Mauser [Re: kuduae]
      #321926 - 28/11/18 05:04 AM

The 2 boxes of Kynoch factory ammo in 9MM Mauser I have are loaded using nitrocellulose powder, with a 245gr. Round Nose bullet.

A friend asked about the powder, so I pulled a bullet, finding short stick powder, just like most all Norma powders.
The bullet measured .358" in my calipers, so .3575" could be closer to the exact dia.

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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lancaster
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Re: 9mm bullets for Mauser [Re: Daryl_S]
      #321931 - 28/11/18 07:18 AM

like kuduae says use .358 250 grains bullet and everything is fine
for plinking the heavy .357 pistol bullets, 180 to 200 grains but the common .158 grains works also

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C_Davidson
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Re: 9mm bullets for Mauser [Re: lancaster]
      #321941 - 28/11/18 10:38 AM

Thanks for all the useful information. I was under the impression that proper 9mm rifle bullets were .356 like pistol bullet. Although I did think perhaps .358s could be resized, I'm not much interested bullet swedging equipment of any sort. It's something else I haven't researched much, so maybe y'all can suggest something. Given that .358s come so close to correct size I can see there are many options, including pistol bullets.

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Hunter4752001
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Re: 9mm bullets for Mauser [Re: C_Davidson]
      #321950 - 28/11/18 12:50 PM

You could slug the barrel and then measure with a micrometer. This would remove any doubt as to the actual groove diameter of your barrel.

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Vladymere
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Re: 9mm bullets for Mauser [Re: Hunter4752001]
      #321983 - 29/11/18 04:16 AM

I like Hunter4752001's idea.

Vlad


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9.3x57
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Re: 9mm bullets for Mauser [Re: Vladymere]
      #322875 - 30/12/18 12:57 PM

OP:

Slug your groove depth. Make sure you have adequate neck release and then get yourself a couple LEE dies and size down .366/9.3 lead cored bullets as well, to expand your options. Select your final die to .001 under groove depth to allow for some springback.

By that I mean cheap 270 grain Speer SS's and cheap 285 grain Prvi RN's.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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xausa
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Re: 9mm bullets for Mauser [Re: 9.3x57]
      #322884 - 31/12/18 02:57 AM

Quote:

OP: Make sure you have adequate neck release....




That's the deciding factor. Load a cartridge with a pistol bullet and shoot it with a moderate load, say a 158 grain bullet and 46 grains of IMR 3031. Then check to see if a .358" bullet slides easily into the neck of the fired case. If it does, then you're set to go. The actual barrel measurement is unimportant, since the bullet will be sized to the barrel dimensions before it has travelled its own length in the barrel.

Neck release is another matter altogether. If you don't have enough neck clearance in the chamber, the bullet may fail to release, causing an enormous pressure rise with unpredictable consequences.


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Daryl_S
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Re: 9mm bullets for Mauser [Re: xausa]
      #322888 - 31/12/18 04:33 AM

Xausa's final sentence holds a very important key. That is why he suggested the 158gr. pistol bullet. That bullet is very soft and easily re-formed to the bls. dimensions.
Even if the neck of the chamber is a little snug due to the light 'soft' bullet and mild powder charge the pressures generated if a too-tight neck, will not jeopardize your rifle.

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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ColoradoMatt1
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Re: 9mm bullets for Mauser [Re: Daryl_S]
      #323669 - 23/01/19 12:40 PM

Sounds like some are trying to make this too complicated. As someone stated earlier, use lead core .358” bullets and you will have absolutely zero problems. Consider the two specs of 8x57. I won’t go into great detail, as most have read the history. The early bullet diameter was .318” and the later bullet diameter is .323”. Countless .323” bullets have been sent down .318” barrels with mostly safe results. Oberndorf Mauser, and perhaps others, produced an intermediate 8mm barrel spec of .321” for some commercial sporting rifles that allowed the easy use of both .318” and .323” ammo. I had an 8x60 Oberndorf barrel like this. So, go get some .358 lead core bullets and have fun.

Edited by ColoradoMatt1 (23/01/19 12:44 PM)


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Daryl_S
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Re: 9mm bullets for Mauser [Re: 9.3x57]
      #323674 - 23/01/19 01:24 PM

Quote:

Any lead core .358 diameter bullet {rifle or pistol} can be resized to fit your rifle. Also, you can use 9mm pistol bullets for plinkers and such. And, you can size 9.3 bullets down from .366 to 35-whatever yours actually slugs. Just make sure you have enough chamber relief for the cartridge neck.

I size .375 cal bullets for 9.3 rifles and they work just fine.

There are MANY bullets available for your 9x rifle.





Absolutely!!
As well.
I used 124gr. Truncated cone 9mm commercially cast bullets for grouse loads in my .356 Winchester, single loaded, of course and with a light powder charge.

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: 9mm bullets for Mauser [Re: xausa]
      #323707 - 24/01/19 01:39 AM

Quote:

Quote:

OP: Make sure you have adequate neck release....




That's the deciding factor. Load a cartridge with a pistol bullet and shoot it with a moderate load, say a 158 grain bullet and 46 grains of IMR 3031. Then check to see if a .358" bullet slides easily into the neck of the fired case. If it does, then you're set to go. The actual barrel measurement is unimportant, since the bullet will be sized to the barrel dimensions before it has travelled its own length in the barrel.

Neck release is another matter altogether. If you don't have enough neck clearance in the chamber, the bullet may fail to release, causing an enormous pressure rise with unpredictable consequences.




Good advice for sure, except the OP is asking about a barrel he found that has not been mated to an action. He's not going to be able to fire a cartridge at this point.

I am successfully using standard .358" bullets in my 9x57R double rifle.

I did a chamber cast that included the first inch of the barrel. Measuring the cast assured me that the groove depth would accommodate a .358" bullet and the chamber neck is plenty large for proper bullet release. Do a chamber cast to get the information you want. I don't think you will need any Lee sizing dies.

Curl

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YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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Rolf
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Re: 9mm bullets for Mauser [Re: CptCurl]
      #323753 - 24/01/19 06:06 PM

Hello C_Davidson,

I reloaded ammunition for two 9x57 Mauser rifles, and always started with the .358" 200grs Sierra RN soft point (Pro-Hunter series).
This is a soft and short bullet which I use only for roe deer, but it is precise for 100 meters (never tested beyond).

best regards
Rolf


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9.3x57
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Re: 9mm bullets for Mauser [Re: CptCurl]
      #323772 - 25/01/19 01:26 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

OP: Make sure you have adequate neck release....




That's the deciding factor. Load a cartridge with a pistol bullet and shoot it with a moderate load, say a 158 grain bullet and 46 grains of IMR 3031. Then check to see if a .358" bullet slides easily into the neck of the fired case. If it does, then you're set to go. The actual barrel measurement is unimportant, since the bullet will be sized to the barrel dimensions before it has travelled its own length in the barrel.

Neck release is another matter altogether. If you don't have enough neck clearance in the chamber, the bullet may fail to release, causing an enormous pressure rise with unpredictable consequences.




Good advice for sure, except the OP is asking about a barrel he found that has not been mated to an action. He's not going to be able to fire a cartridge at this point.

I am successfully using standard .358" bullets in my 9x57R double rifle.

I did a chamber cast that included the first inch of the barrel. Measuring the cast assured me that the groove depth would accommodate a .358" bullet and the chamber neck is plenty large for proper bullet release. Do a chamber cast to get the information you want. I don't think you will need any Lee sizing dies.

Curl




Good post. This is not surprising. Seems many Euro rifles of the day were over-bored and I don't think it was a mistake. Seems the idea then was to allow some tolerance to keep pressures down, and with deepish rifling accuracy was fine as long as bore diameter was tight enough {giving depth of rifling}. Accuracy demands were not what they are today but even so, such rifles may shoot very well especially from field positions.

Over on the AR15 forum I ran shooting Challenge thread for years. 15 shots, 3 minutes, 100 yards, no prone, no bipod, no bags, no rest, no sling. May stand, kneel, sit. Very revealing and a few things were displayed; 1} precision rifles often did NOT demonstrate their mechanical accuracy advantage 2} most folks, at least Americans, don't like to shoot without a rest and aren't very good when they shoot without one 3} field position shooting is a heck of a lot of fun. There was also a bench rest Challenge going on at the same time. Very few of the Bench guys shot the field position Challenge. It was two totally different crowds with only a little crossover. I'd love to have shot that Challenge with one of those little Three-Seventy-Five Manlickers!

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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MagnumHunter
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Re: 9mm bullets for Mauser [Re: 9.3x57]
      #327570 - 22/04/19 12:10 PM

In case it might be of interest to someone. Just the other day, I shot a couple of Kynoch 245 gr. loads over the chronograph in my 9x57. They averaged 1773 fps!!!! Way under what I expected. Of course they are probably 1950s vintage

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Daryl_S
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Re: 9mm bullets for Mauser [Re: MagnumHunter]
      #327595 - 23/04/19 04:17 AM

I have 2 boxes of those 245's - short one round, so 19 ctgs.


--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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MagnumHunter
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Re: 9mm bullets for Mauser [Re: Daryl_S]
      #327599 - 23/04/19 05:13 AM

Thats them. I have 5 boxes. My 9x57 needs to be restocked. I'll eventually get around to it.

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Vladymere
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Re: 9mm bullets for Mauser [Re: MagnumHunter]
      #327630 - 24/04/19 03:33 AM

"Seems many Euro rifles of the day were over-bored and I don't think it was a mistake. Seems the idea then was to allow some tolerance to keep pressures down, and with deepish rifling accuracy was fine as long as bore diameter was tight enough {givng depth of rifling}."

I have an Eduard Kettner retailed Gew.88 based rifle that is chambered for the 8x57J cartridge (not 8x57Js that measures lands .303", grooves .314". Another rifle I have, a #1 Mannlicher-Haenel, has lands of .305" and grooves of .316". I've thought that these may have been made tight to boost velocity. Tight bore would boost pressure, boosted pressure would be more velocity. Just a guess on my part and I may be way off base.

Vlad


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szihn
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Re: 9mm bullets for Mauser [Re: Vladymere]
      #328515 - 19/05/19 02:52 AM

Just as a side note, years ago I owned a Mannlicher Schoenauer 1905 in 9X56 and at first I was sizing the American .358" bullets to .356". But after a recommendation from the rifles former owner I started using them at full size.

The 9X56 is not a high pressure shell so it didn't seem to hurt a thing,and the full sized .358 bullets actually shot better.

So rifles with throat dimensions large enough to emit a larger bullet may be best used with that larger bullet. BUT remember things like jacket thickness can and will effect pressure, so every bullet would have to be worked up from low pressure loads to stay safe.


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