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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Muzzleloaders & Blackpowder

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lancaster
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Reged: 06/05/08
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Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...
Manton 16 ga with a question
      #317999 - 13/07/18 02:20 AM

Jørgen from denmark send me pics of his new acquired 16 ga Manton double gun and there is a question about it.
































"The "gun" came home and while made 1815 it does not actually seem like someone has open in it since it was born. Ok there's some rust that's going to go away. The stock is somewhat dark, but appears to be really good when it's cleaned.
It's a cal. 16, easy with a very good balance, just like my Purdey and Alex Martin. Just as Thomas says, a gun in wood and steel, craftsmanship in the best class, without CNC machines, without turning and file tracks, all polished, very tight in all sidelock, and do not bear the feeling of being used much. Now, when you look at the side lock, yes, all screws are ok. The hammer are as normal at this time "dolphins".
The barrel are "rose-damask" best quality, proof and stamped in London. And also absolutely amazing engraving. It was possible to loosen and get all the screws out and only one wooden screw under the trigger clamp, which was stuck firmly, broke.
Still, I do not understand that I was lucky to get it at the low price !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Manton is considered to be the father of the shotgun , as we know today, and I understand now.
I have got one in my hands for the first time and only before seen pictures of them."
The Manton, SN 6778, is from 1815 the time when we began to rebuild flintlock guns to the new percussion lock."

pic of a Flintlock SN 2636 made in 1797






now the problem:

"I've seen photos of some and everyone has the “white spot” just below the hammer. It looks like an aluminum plug, but I think it is not.
Think there's a screw below, whats the "white spot"????"









other guns from this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pk46oQ0owls

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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Iowa_303s
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Reged: 22/03/13
Posts: 883
Loc: Iowa, USA
Re: Manton 16 ga with a question [Re: lancaster]
      #318002 - 13/07/18 08:03 AM

lancaster,
The “white spot” is a platinum vent plug.
It plugs the hole that was drilled to connect the nipple hole to the powder chamber hole.
It’s sometimes called a blow out plug incase of over pressures.

--------------------
Matt

formerly known as Iowa_303

"Once your reputation is ruined you can live your life quite freely."

"Enkelkinder über alles"


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Wayne59
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Reged: 20/06/15
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Loc: Lagrange Ga. USA
Re: Manton 16 ga with a question [Re: Iowa_303s]
      #318010 - 13/07/18 11:16 PM

Mat is correct of course but I find it strange that of all the guns with these plugs that I have seen that I have never seen a blown platinum plug. Has anybody actually seen a gun with a blown plug.

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Iowa_303s
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Reged: 22/03/13
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Re: Manton 16 ga with a question [Re: Wayne59]
      #318011 - 13/07/18 11:29 PM

Nope, never seen one loose let alone actually blown out.

--------------------
Matt

formerly known as Iowa_303

"Once your reputation is ruined you can live your life quite freely."

"Enkelkinder über alles"


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lancaster
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Re: Manton 16 ga with a question [Re: Iowa_303s]
      #318079 - 14/07/18 09:53 PM

Quote:

lancaster,
The “white spot” is a platinum vent plug.
It plugs the hole that was drilled to connect the nipple hole to the powder chamber hole.
It’s sometimes called a blow out plug incase of over pressures.




if I understand it right he thinks the platinum is not only a plug but ends into the barrel and the nipple is drilled from above into the platinum tube. it seems that Manton had experimented with different metals in the flintlock time to prevent the hole from burning out and found that platinum works best.
could be that still use this material also for percussion because in theory there was the same problem when the flame enter the barrel.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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Iowa_303s
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Reged: 22/03/13
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Re: Manton 16 ga with a question [Re: lancaster]
      #318084 - 15/07/18 12:19 AM

Quote:

Quote:

lancaster,
The “white spot” is a platinum vent plug.
It plugs the hole that was drilled to connect the nipple hole to the powder chamber hole.
It’s sometimes called a blow out plug incase of over pressures.




if I understand it right he thinks the platinum is not only a plug but ends into the barrel and the nipple is drilled from above into the platinum tube. it seems that Manton had experimented with different metals in the flintlock time to prevent the hole from burning out and found that platinum works best.
could be that still use this material also for percussion because in theory there was the same problem when the flame enter the barrel.



As I understand it the plug is just a plug. The connection between the nipple and the powder in the barrel is not lined with platinum, it's bare steel.

--------------------
Matt

formerly known as Iowa_303

"Once your reputation is ruined you can live your life quite freely."

"Enkelkinder über alles"


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lancaster
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Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 5153
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...
Re: Manton 16 ga with a question [Re: Iowa_303s]
      #319747 - 11/09/18 04:10 AM

got some new pics, the double gun is careful restored and waiting for test firing





















Joseph Manton






--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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93x64mm
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Reged: 07/12/11
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Re: Manton 16 ga with a question [Re: lancaster]
      #319748 - 11/09/18 06:06 AM

That old Manton's looking great there now Lancaster!

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Heelerau
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Reged: 31/01/17
Posts: 55
Loc: Australia
Re: Manton 16 ga with a question [Re: 93x64mm]
      #319922 - 19/09/18 08:59 AM

I have a nice 16 gauge Manton single barrel, converted to percussion with a drum, someone had bored out the old cone and not done any more. I redialled it and tapped it for a new cone. Lovely little piece and points well, as it is pretty light the recoil is quite lively to, it belongs to a mate who has also a nice Durrs Egg 16 gauge double that we are yet to try out. That was a real win on your part, congratulations !

--------------------
Keep your horse well shod and your powder dry !


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Iowa_303s
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Re: Manton 16 ga with a question [Re: Heelerau]
      #319924 - 19/09/18 11:48 AM

Beautiful old Manton you have there lancaster!

--------------------
Matt

formerly known as Iowa_303

"Once your reputation is ruined you can live your life quite freely."

"Enkelkinder über alles"


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lancaster
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Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 5153
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...
Re: Manton 16 ga with a question [Re: Iowa_303s]
      #319940 - 20/09/18 05:33 AM

its not mine, just post the pics

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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Heelerau
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Loc: Australia
Re: Manton 16 ga with a question [Re: lancaster]
      #321179 - 03/11/18 08:42 AM

I am pretty sure this gun has been beautifully converted to percussion. The wooden inserts above the lock mortise at the back the standing breech, the cutaway in both lock plates where a pan would have been. I think to, that the breech plugs are replacements so cones can be fitted. A lovely old gun. The one I have has had a drum and nipple conversion, much more basic approach.

Edited by Heelerau (03/11/18 08:44 AM)


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Daryl_SModerator
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Re: Manton 16 ga with a question [Re: Heelerau]
      #321184 - 03/11/18 01:42 PM

Yes Gordon, that one does indeed appear to be a converted flint, however it is missing the pivot hole for the frizzen screw & 'feather'(frizzen) spring screw hole.

Also odd the platinum plug has no tiny hole in the middle.

Nice find, but very strange indeed. They sure did a nice job on the conversion.

Careful about the 'tubes' as being soft steel or barely hard iron, they oft times had worn out orifices or non-existent 'choke' points in them. This will cause excessive pressure on the hammer & main spring.

Nice fences - VERY good work was done.

The hammers would seem of the 1840 period or a bit later. This conversion could very likely be from 1850's or 1855 even. Good quality flintlocks were not quickly converted to cap ignition as the early cap systems were far from being 'better' & caps, especially good caps were not in evidence or easily avaiable for the 'hunter'. Quality of parts and systems took time and I think the first viable cap-lock system was invented about 1820, maybe 21, commercially and was a far cry from what they evolved into in the next 10 to 20 years. That is the style I feel, of the hammer, quite late, looking almost identical period in hammers and fence, to my brothers Joseph Lang 16 bore single shot rifle, made in 1853.

Again, a very nice gun, quite an early one and a gun well worth having.


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sharps4590
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Reged: 09/03/16
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Re: Manton 16 ga with a question [Re: Daryl_S]
      #321244 - 05/11/18 12:55 AM

Great thread!! Don't know how I missed it until now, some 4 months after the original post but I did. Might have something to do with surgery and chemotherapy. Anyway...

Two weeks ago I received a Manton, 16 bore muzzleloader. I'm quite certain it's a lot later than the one being discussed here. Mine has not seen much use and came in its original case., however, I fear the few accoutrements are not correct. Again....anyway...absolutely lovely old Manton!! I hope your friends test shooting went well. They are a joy to behold and even better to use. I believe mine is going to compel me to partake of some game bird farm shooting. About have to here, ain't no wild birds left.

--------------------
Jesus said, "I am the way the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but through me." John14:6


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