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93mouse
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Reged: 17/08/07
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Loc: Slovenia
Re: Pics of the day - Hunting in Europe [Re: lancaster]
      #320476 - 08/10/18 08:18 PM



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Louis
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Re: Pics of the day - Hunting in Europe [Re: 93mouse]
      #320478 - 09/10/18 01:57 AM

Very nice stag; did you harvested it in Slovenia during the rutting season?
Louis

--------------------
"Everything that doesn't kill me makes me stronger"


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Daryl_S
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Re: Pics of the day - Hunting in Europe [Re: Louis]
      #320480 - 09/10/18 04:12 AM

Nice indeed.
Interesting how the antlers are so similar to our Roosevelt Elk.

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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93mouse
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Re: Pics of the day - Hunting in Europe [Re: Daryl_S]
      #320491 - 09/10/18 06:17 PM

Thanks guys. Yes it was taken in Slovenia by a client that I guided. It is one of 19 we got in 2 weeks rut time a week ago. It was a tricky stalk with last 50m belly crawling, shot at 280m with .300 Win.

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Louis
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Re: Pics of the day - Hunting in Europe [Re: 93mouse]
      #320522 - 10/10/18 03:02 PM

Thank you 93Mouse; 19 beasts harvested in a two-week time, you are on a mission to eradicate red stags from the Slovenian hills!
Louis

--------------------
"Everything that doesn't kill me makes me stronger"


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93mouse
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Re: Pics of the day - Hunting in Europe [Re: Louis]
      #320525 - 10/10/18 05:38 PM

Louis still 6 to go - full quota is 25 - all within numbers set by Ministry of environment (that are set at least 1/3rd too high to be sustainable IMO)...still the hard works beginns now the clients are gone - we (PH and 4 deputies) must cull 220 females and calves till the end of the year...with 40 lost during the winter that means at least 180.

Anyway it is a great area full of reds (for the time being) - here is a pic after one of the morning hunts.



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93mouse
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Re: Pics of the day - Hunting in Europe [Re: 93mouse]
      #322137 - 03/12/18 07:10 PM



Last international clients of the year on the way home, few domestic hunts to be done till end of the year...

4 days of intense tracking of wounded ones, still looking sharp, up for any challenge



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Ripp
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Re: Pics of the day - Hunting in Europe [Re: 93mouse]
      #322151 - 04/12/18 12:49 AM

Quote:

Louis still 6 to go - full quota is 25 - all within numbers set by Ministry of environment (that are set at least 1/3rd too high to be sustainable IMO)...still the hard works beginns now the clients are gone - we (PH and 4 deputies) must cull 220 females and calves till the end of the year...with 40 lost during the winter that means at least 180.

Anyway it is a great area full of reds (for the time being) - here is a pic after one of the morning hunts.






Looks like you and your clients had a great season..congrats..

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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9.3x57
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Re: Pics of the day - Hunting in Europe [Re: 93mouse]
      #322154 - 04/12/18 01:47 AM

93:

Great posts!

One of the great things about this site is the exposure to how things are done to manage game in various parts of the world, hunting regulations, etc. Yours are always interesting and informative.

That's a fine looking dog!! What breed?

I have been absent from the site for a long time but I need to give you a special thanks for helping me some years ago with my proposal to legalize blood tracking dogs in Idaho. It took about 2 years to get cleared and passed, but that proposal was approved and it has been legal to use a blood tracker since then!

With a little help from googletranslate,

"Najlepša hvala!!"

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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lancaster
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Re: Pics of the day - Hunting in Europe [Re: 9.3x57]
      #322165 - 04/12/18 06:23 AM

Bayrischer Gebirgsschweißhund

Bavarian Mountain Hound https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bavarian_Mountain_Hound

"The Germans were really meticulous in order not to lose any prey and developed a technique for which they bred resistant dogs with a great sense of smell, a strong bone structure, dropping ears and a steady temperament. These dogs were medium-sized and reliable. The Bavarian Mountain Dog was developed in the 19th century by crossbreeding specimens of the Hannoversche Schweißhund breed and hunting dogs from the Alps. The result was a hunting dog ideal for the work in the mountains. In 1912, the "Klub für Bayrische Gebirgsschweißhunde", (Club for Bavarian Mountain hound), was founded in Munich. Afterwards, this breed started gaining popularity in Austria and Hungary"

common today all over the alps this dog is a descendant of the Hanover Hound https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanover_Hound
the Hanoverscher Schweißhund - "Schweiß" is the blood of game in german hunters language so Schweißhund is a bloodhound and Gebirgsschweißhund is a Mountain bloodhound

the Hanover hound is a descendant of the St. Hubert hound:

"The St. Hubert hound was, according to legend, first bred ca. 1000 AD by monks at the Saint-Hubert Monastery in Belgium; its likely origins are in France, home of many of modern hounds. It is held to be the ancestor of several other breeds, like the extinct Norman hound, and Saintongeois, and the modern Grand Bleu de Gascogne, Gascon Saintongeois, Ariegeois and Artois Normande, as well as the bloodhound. It has been suggested that it was a dog of mixed breeding, not at all uniform in type.[7]

Whether they originated there, or what their ancestry was, is uncertain, but from ca. 1200, the monks of the Abbey of St Hubert annually sent several pairs of black hounds as a gift to the King of France. They were not always highly thought of in the royal pack. Charles IX 1550-74, preferred his white hounds and the larger Chiens-gris, and wrote that the St Huberts were suitable for people with gout to follow, but not for those who wished to shorten the life of the hunted animal. He described them as pack-hounds of medium stature, long in the body, not well sprung in the rib, and of no great strength.[8] Writing in 1561 Jaques du Fouilloux describes them as strong of body, but with low, short legs. He says they have become mixed in breeding, so that they are now of all colours and widely distributed.[9] Charles described the 'true race' of the St Hubert as black, with red/tawny marks above the eyes and legs usually of the same colour, suggesting a 'blanket' black and tan (see Section on Colour types above). To De Fouilloux the 'pure black' were the best of this mixed breed. Both writers thought them only useful as leash hounds. They both refer to a white hound, also a St Hubert, which by their time had disappeared, having been interbred with another white hound, the greffier, to produce the king's preferred pack hound, sometimes called the chien blanc du roi.

They appear to have been more highly thought of during the reign of Henry IV (1553–1610), who presented a pack to James I of England. By the end of the reign of Louis XIV (1715), they were already rare.[10][11] In 1788, D'Yauville, who was master of the Royal hounds, says those sent by the St Hubert monks, once much prized, had degenerated, and scarcely one of the annual gift of six or eight was kept.[12]

Upon the French Revolution of 1789, the gifts ceased, and hunting in France went into a decline until the end of the Napoleonic wars. When it recovered during the 19th Century, huntsmen, with many breeds to choose from, seem to have had little interest in the St Hubert. An exception was Baron Le Couteulx de Canteleu, who tried to find them. He reported that there were hardly any in France, and those in the Ardennes were so cross-bred that they had lost the characteristics of the breed.[11][13]

Writers on the bloodhound in the last two centuries generally agreed that the original St Hubert strain died out in the nineteenth century, and that the European St Hubert owes its present existence to the development of the Bloodhound."





those St. Hubertus hounds were given not only to france by monks but all over europe and they are the grandfathers of the Hanover hound but this dog today is the result of only breeding the best of the best over centurys.


"Bloodhound

References to bloodhounds first appear in English writing in the early to mid 14th century, in contexts that suggest the breed was well established by then.[16][17][18] It is often claimed that its ancestors were brought over from Normandy by William the Conqueror, but there is no actual evidence for this.[citation needed] That the Normans brought hounds from Europe during the post-Conquest period is virtually certain, but whether they included the Bloodhound itself, rather than merely its ancestors, is a matter of dispute that probably cannot be resolved on the basis of surviving evidence.

In Medieval hunting the typical use of the Bloodhound was as a 'limer', or 'lyam-hound', that is a dog handled on a leash or 'lyam', to find the hart or boar before it was hunted by the pack hounds (raches).[19] It was prized for its ability to hunt the cold scent of an individual animal, and, though it did not usually take part in the kill, it was given a special reward from the carcass.[20]

It also seems that from the earliest times the Bloodhound was used to track people. There are stories written in Medieval Scotland of Robert the Bruce (in 1307), and William Wallace (1270–1305) being followed by 'sleuth hounds'.[21][22] Whether true or not, these stories show that the sleuth hound was already known as a man-trailer, and it later becomes clear that the sleuth hound and the Bloodhound were the same animal.

In the 16th century, John Caius,[23] in the most important single source in the history of the Bloodhound, describes its hanging ears and lips, its use in game parks to follow the scent of blood, which gives it its name, its ability to track thieves and poachers by their foot scent, how it casts if it has lost the scent when thieves cross water, and its use on the Scottish borders to track cross-border raiders, known as Border Reivers. This links it to the sleuth hound,[24] and from Caius also comes the information that the English Bloodhound and the sleuth hound were essentially the same, though the Bloodhound was slightly bigger, with more variation in coat colour.[25]

The adjacent picture was published in Zurich in 1563, in Conrad Gesner's Thierbuch (a compendium of animals) with the captions: 'Englischen Blüthund' and 'Canis Sagax Sanguinarius apud Anglos' (English scent hound with associations of blood). It was drawn by, or under the supervision of, John Caius, and sent to Gesner with other drawings to illustrate his descriptions of British dogs for European readers. It is thus the earliest known picture published specifically to demonstrate the appearance of the Bloodhound. We are told it was done from life,[25] and detail such as the soft hang of the ear indicates it was carefully observed. Fully accurate or not, it suggests changes between the Bloodhound of then and today. The collar and long coiled rope reflect the Bloodhound's typical functions as a limer or leashed man-trailer in that period.

The earliest known report of a trial of the Bloodhound's trailing abilities comes from the scientist Robert Boyle,[26] who described how a Bloodhound tracked a man seven miles along a route frequented by people, and found him in an upstairs room of a house.[27]

With the rise of fox-hunting, the decline of deer-hunting, and the extinction of the wild boar, as well as a more settled state of society, the use of the Bloodhound diminished. It was kept by the aristocratic owners of a few deer-parks[27] and by a few enthusiasts,[11] with some variation in type, until its popularity began to increase again with the rise of dog-showing in the 19th Century.[10] Numbers, however, have remained low in Britain. Very few survived the Second World War, but the gene-pool has gradually been replenished with imports from America. Nevertheless, because of UK quarantine restrictions, importing was expensive and difficult, throughout the 20th century, and in the post-war period exports to the USA, and to Europe where the population had also been affected by the war, considerably exceeded imports.[28]

During the later 19th century numbers of Bloodhounds were imported from Britain by French enthusiasts, who regretted the extinction of the ancient St Hubert. They wished to re-establish it, using the Bloodhound, which, despite its developments in Britain, they regarded as the St Hubert preserved unchanged. Many of the finest specimens were bought and exhibited and bred in France as Chiens de S. Hubert, especially by Le Couteulx de Canteleu, who himself bred over 300. Whatever few original St Huberts remained either died out or were absorbed into the new population.[11][13] As a result, the Bloodhound became known on parts of the Continent as the Chien de Saint-Hubert. In the mid 20th century the Brussels-based FCI accepted the claim of Belgium to be the country of origin. There are now annual celebrations in the town of Saint-Hubert, in which handlers in period dress parade their hounds. In Britain the bloodhound has continued to be seen as a native breed, with European St Huberts being accepted by the UK KC as bloodhounds.[29]

In Le Couteulx' book of 1890 we read that 'Le Chien de St Hubert actuel' is very big, from 0m,69 to 0m,80 (27½-31½in) high.[10] This does not accord with the 16th century descriptions of the St Hubert given above, nor with the FCI standard, but the idea that the St Hubert is much bigger (up to 0.915m, 36 in) than the Bloodhound persisted well into the 20th century, among some St Hubert enthusiasts.[30]

When the first Bloodhounds were exported to the USA is not known. Bloodhounds were used to track runaway slaves before the American Civil War, but it has been questioned whether the dogs used were genuine Bloodhounds. However, in the later part of the 19th century, and in the next, more pure Bloodhounds were introduced from Britain, and bred in America, especially after 1888, when the English breeder, Edwin Brough, brought three of his hounds to exhibit at the Westminster KC show in New York City. He went into partnership with Mr J L Winchell, who with other Americans, imported more stock from Britain.[15] Bloodhounds in America have been more widely used in tracking lost people and criminals - often with brilliant success - than in Britain, and the history of the Bloodhound in America is full of the man-trailing exploits of outstanding Bloodhounds and their expert handlers, the most famous hound being Nick Carter.[15][31] Law enforcement agencies have been much involved in the use of Bloodhounds, and there is a National Police Bloodhound Association, originating in 1962.[32]

In Britain there have been instances from time to time of the successful use of the Bloodhound to track criminals or missing people. However man-trailing is enjoyed as a sport by British Bloodhound owners, through national working trials, and this enthusiasm has spread to Europe. In addition, while the pure Bloodhound is used to hunt singly, bloodhound packs use bloodhounds crossed with foxhounds to hunt the human scent.

Meanwhile, the Bloodhound has become widely distributed internationally, though numbers are small in most countries, with more in the USA than anywhere else. Following the spread of the Bloodhound from Britain in the nineteenth and twentieth centuries, imports and exports and, increasingly, artificial insemination, are maintaining the world population as a common breeding stock, without a great deal of divergence in type in different countries.[1]

During the late 19th century, Bloodhounds were frequent subjects for artists such as Edwin Landseer[33] and Briton Riviere; the dogs depicted are close in appearance to modern Bloodhounds, indicating that the essential character of the Bloodhound predates modern dog breeding. However, the dogs depicted by Landseer show less wrinkle and haw than modern dogs.[15]
Origin issues
Throughout most of its history the bloodhound was seen as a dog of English or Anglo-Scottish origin, either of unknown ancestry,[23][34][35][36] or, more recently, as developed in part from the St. Hubert.[13][14][31][37][38] It was only in the 19th century that it was claimed, primarily by Le Couteulx, to be the St Hubert itself.[10] Medieval hunting pictures show raches and limers, of the general sagax type, with hanging ears and lips, but not having the specific characteristics of the bloodhound. 16th century descriptions of the St Hubert as short-legged, and only medium-sized[8][9][39] have led to speculation that the main European antecedent of the bloodhound was rather the Norman hound, which was very large, than the St Hubert.[12] Others such as the sleuth-hound, the Talbot, the dun-hound[14] and the southern hound, as well as pack hounds, have also been supposed to have contributed to its make-up. Some writers doubt whether anything certain can be said about specific breed ancestry beyond the last few centuries.[3][31][38] The picture given by Le Couteulx and D'Yauville of the St Hubert was that it changed considerably through mixed breeding, and perhaps degenerated, before its disappearance,[10][12] while the bloodhound which replaced it, preserved its original character. However, it is apparent from 16th century pictures that the bloodhound itself has changed considerably.[20][35] The modern St Hubert is the English bloodhound, in descent and type. Generally, national and regional variants of hounds, terriers, spaniels etc. have been recognised as separate breeds, France in particular having many regional breeds of hound;[7][12] the bloodhound's identification as the St Hubert makes it an anomaly in this respect. Whether the bloodhound is British or Belgian in origin is ultimately not something one can prove historically, depending as it does on whether one chooses to regard two related animals differing in tradition, and history, and somewhat in type, as separate breeds, or variants of the same one. "
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloodhound




--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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93mouse
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Reged: 17/08/07
Posts: 679
Loc: Slovenia
Re: Pics of the day - Hunting in Europe [Re: 9.3x57]
      #322186 - 04/12/18 07:07 PM

Thanks Ripp - it was indeed.

Hey 57 - long time no see, but what a way to be back with magnificient news - congratulations - I am glad it worked out! Must tell you we have an wolf population explosion here and all attempts to get a shootable quota are blocked...

The dog is Bayrischer Gebirgsschweißhund or BGS in short as Lancaster pointed out.
Bitch belongs to a friend of mine that is a PH and on driven hunts too occupied to lead it, so I take her out instead of him and we are clicking together just fine - the pic above was taken after succesful tracking of wounded red deer hind for 12 km, through wolf and bear infested rugged hilly country - incredible job, hard to believe untill you see it in person. It is a unique feeling to follow experienced dog (for days if it takes) without a single doubt that it is spot on trail...

Sadly they don't last - as some older members remember my old one - she passed away peacefully on Oct. 23rd 2016.

On Tuesday she refused to eat on Friday she declined water on Sunday she was gone...Here is a pic of her, 2 days before going to the happy hunting ground. She was 16 years old and had a great hunting life.



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9.3x57
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Re: Pics of the day - Hunting in Europe [Re: 93mouse]
      #322190 - 05/12/18 03:59 AM

93: Thanks for that. Very good stuff. And thanks to lancaster for the info on the dogs!

Sorry to hear about your old one. But she had quite the life of 16 years!

Regarding your wolf population. You WILL see precipitous declines in game if you guys don't control them. The problem is, there is no way TO control that doesn't involve toxicants/poison I bet they won't let you use that. So your future is fewer head of game to hunt. Now, if you have few hunters and an abundance of game, then you may be OK. Here we have lots of hunters and in addition to wolves; coyotes, bear, bobcat and mountain lion that all kill a large amount of game either as fawns/calves or as adults. Our entire system of hunting has been turned upside down by wolves.

By the way, is that a Blaser there with the dog? What caliber/scope?

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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Daryl_S
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Re: Pics of the day - Hunting in Europe [Re: 9.3x57]
      #322191 - 05/12/18 04:24 AM



That is an ALL-business looking dog! Wonderful!

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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93mouse
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Reged: 17/08/07
Posts: 679
Loc: Slovenia
Re: Pics of the day - Hunting in Europe [Re: 9.3x57]
      #322207 - 05/12/18 06:10 PM

Quote:

93: By the way, is that a Blaser there with the dog? What caliber/scope?




Same old 9.3x62 with Docter 1-4x24 scope, sporting a new KKC stock.


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Louis
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Re: Pics of the day - Hunting in Europe [Re: 93mouse]
      #322321 - 09/12/18 10:34 PM

Nice BGS dog, good 9,3x62 working rifle and country with well established hunting traditions; you're a gifted man!

--------------------
"Everything that doesn't kill me makes me stronger"


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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
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Re: Pics of the day - Hunting in Europe [Re: 93mouse]
      #322322 - 10/12/18 01:21 AM

Quote:

Quote:

93: By the way, is that a Blaser there with the dog? What caliber/scope?




Same old 9.3x62 with Docter 1-4x24 scope, sporting a new KKC stock.




"sporting a new KKC stock."

Ah, that does it!

Curious, what ammo do you use? Handload?

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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93mouse
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Reged: 17/08/07
Posts: 679
Loc: Slovenia
Re: Pics of the day - Hunting in Europe [Re: 9.3x57]
      #322325 - 10/12/18 06:22 AM

I was back and forth experimenting with different bullets and finally ended full circle back to factory RWS UNI (former TUG) 19g ammo:

https://rws-munition.de/en/rws-hunting-a...t.html#!0/28/10

Same goes for 9.3x74R:

https://rws-munition.de/en/rws-hunting-a...t.html#!0/28/12


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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
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Re: Pics of the day - Hunting in Europe [Re: 93mouse]
      #322327 - 10/12/18 10:43 AM

Quote:

I was back and forth experimenting with different bullets and finally ended full circle back to factory RWS UNI (former TUG) 19g ammo:






I've read those are good bullets but have no experience with them.

I actually like the cheap Prvi Partizan 285 grain RN's. They are "soft" and work well for our deer and bear and elk. I've used them in both x57 and x62 9.3's.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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