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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: 7mm 140 gr Hydro-Solid .284" - Who has used these? [Re: eagle27]
      #319849 - 14/09/18 10:09 PM

Quote:


A cattle beast can be dropped on the spot with 22RF or as I have done with a 455 Webley revolver, if brained or spine shot in the neck. With respect, where your buff was hit with the 150gr 308 Hydro is more pertinent to the pros and cons of cartridge and bullet performance.




More or less true. Buffalo and cattle have been killed with all sorts of calibres and cartridges.

But how many wild cattle, or wild buffalo have been shot with a .22 RF in your actual experience? And not when captured in cattle yards. Also was the "cattle beast" dropped with a .455 Webley revolver a wild "cattle beast" in the field or ? (BTW not saying it wasn't, just asking for clarification. Cattle are often killed with a .22 in the yards as killers ie meat.)

Orion who I took up to the NT for a buff hunt, wanted to use his "new" 6.5x54 MS on water buffalo. No problems.

On the other hand, one of our Top End experienced resident members also used to use his 6.5mm, but I noticed he didn't anymore several years ago. I asked him why. And the reason, is things don't always go perfectly. Wild scrub bulls, water buffalo, cape buffalo, banteng, can all be killed with medium calibre rifles will appropriate shots. But shots do not always go perfectly. And a wounded beast is a different animal from the one grazing unconcerned. And is the guy with a revolver, or a 6.5mm going to follow up a wounded bull into the high grass? That is when one NEEDS a bigger rifle, if for confidence alone. My opiinion.

Some people online talk such crap, "a .308 is more than adequate for buffalo". Often based on shooting a bull or two out of the window of a Landcruiser. And I KNOW if a wounded beast runs away, these same guys if asked, did they finish it off, reply "Who gives a ffff about it!!!" Information on the internet is often incomplete and "coloured" by what people want to say, not the whole story.

A bit off topic. But back to topic of full metal jackets. While they weren't hydros, on the recent water buffalo hunt, the buffalo were extremely wary. Can explain in a later and different thread. So decided to load up the second barrel of the Jeffery .450 with a 480 gr RN FMJ. As I suspected the only shot I might get was an animal running away. The RN SPs usually won't penetrate end on end, but the FMJs usually do. A rear end FMJ will drop the animal and allow the second barrel to be used to finish the beast.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 10157
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: 7mm 140 gr Hydro-Solid .284" - Who has used these? [Re: NitroX]
      #319851 - 14/09/18 10:23 PM

Quote:

Quote:


A cattle beast can be dropped on the spot with 22RF or as I have done with a 455 Webley revolver, if brained or spine shot in the neck. With respect, where your buff was hit with the 150gr 308 Hydro is more pertinent to the pros and cons of cartridge and bullet performance.




More or less true. Buffalo and cattle have been killed with all sorts of calibres and cartridges.

But how many wild cattle, or wild buffalo have been shot with a .22 RF in your actual experience? And not when captured in cattle yards. Also was the "cattle beast" dropped with a .455 Webley revolver a wild "cattle beast" in the field or ? (BTW not saying it wasn't, just asking for clarification. Cattle are often killed with a .22 in the yards as killers ie meat.)

Orion who I took up to the NT for a buff hunt, wanted to use his "new" 6.5x54 MS on water buffalo. No problems.

On the other hand, one of our Top End experienced resident members also used to use his 6.5mm, but I noticed he didn't anymore several years ago. I asked him why. And the reason, is things don't always go perfectly. Wild scrub bulls, water buffalo, cape buffalo, banteng, can all be killed with medium calibre rifles will appropriate shots. But shots do not always go perfectly. And a wounded beast is a different animal from the one grazing unconcerned. And is the guy with a revolver, or a 6.5mm going to follow up a wounded bull into the high grass? That is when one NEEDS a bigger rifle, if for confidence alone. My opiinion.

Some people online talk such crap, "a .308 is more than adequate for buffalo". Often based on shooting a bull or two out of the window of a Landcruiser. And I KNOW if a wounded beast runs away, these same guys if asked, did they finish it off, reply "Who gives a ffff about it!!!" Information on the internet is often incomplete and "coloured" by what people want to say, not the whole story.

A bit off topic. But back to topic of full metal jackets. While they weren't hydros, on the recent water buffalo hunt, the buffalo were extremely wary. Can explain in a later and different thread. So decided to load up the second barrel of the Jeffery .450 with a 480 gr RN FMJ. As I suspected the only shot I might get was an animal running away. The RN SPs usually won't penetrate end on end, but the FMJs usually do. A rear end FMJ will drop the animal and allow the second barrel to be used to finish the beast.




Exactly --we used a .22 rimfire all the time on the farm to butcher the fed steer, pigs, etc..however there is no way I would want to try that feat on a wild animal at a distance over 50 yards..hell, probably not over 20 for that matter..

AS to the solids, have not used these but did use Barnes solids in my .416 during buffalo hunts in Africa..they did indeed have complete pass through's on a buff bull running away..at least 2 of the 3 did..we found one under the neck just behind the head..still have that bullet..could probably be reloaded and used again if needed..

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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eagle27
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Reged: 24/01/09
Posts: 781
Loc: Nelson, New Zealand
Re: 7mm 140 gr Hydro-Solid .284" - Who has used these? [Re: Ripp]
      #319863 - 15/09/18 11:20 AM

Hey guys I wasn't promoting the use of a 22Rf or 455 Webley as suitable cartridges to take on large game but just pointing out they these sort of cartridges are quite capable of dropping a cattle beast or buffalo if using a bullet that will penetrate to the brain or neck. In the hands of a good shot a 22RF solid would possibly be capable of doing this at the 45m range that Mick shot using a 308 150gr Hydro. My question was that to get a comparison of bullet performance you need you know where the bullet was placed.
The fact that Mick dropped his buffalo on the spot at 45m with a Hydro doesn't tell us much as we don't know where he hit the beast. Iím assuming for a DRT shot he must have done a brain or spine shot? Most any bullet will do that.

BTW the cattle beast I shot with my Webley using a cast 250gr at about 650fps had a broken leg and was standing quietly 3 or 4 metres away in a river bed. I head shot it dropping it on the spot. Although I shot a few goats and a couple of red deer with the Webley, I would no more promote it as a buffalo cartridge than a 22RF when hunting in the wild but both are capable of dropping a large beast under the right circumstances with the right shot.

To give the Webley itís due I would take some comfort from having it on the hip in case anything ever went wrong when hunting dangerous animals, certainly for cats and buffalo if you can get a head or neck shot at close range the 455 Webley is more than capable of turning their lights out, better than a knife.


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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 27879
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: 7mm 140 gr Hydro-Solid .284" - Who has used these? [Re: eagle27]
      #319864 - 15/09/18 03:21 PM

Quote:

Hey guys I wasn't promoting the use of a 22Rf or 455 Webley as suitable cartridges to take on large game but just pointing out they these sort of cartridges are quite capable of dropping a cattle beast or buffalo if using a bullet that will penetrate to the brain or neck. In the hands of a good shot a 22RF solid would possibly be capable of doing this at the 45m range that Mick shot using a 308 150gr Hydro. My question was that to get a comparison of bullet performance you need you know where the bullet was placed.
The fact that Mick dropped his buffalo on the spot at 45m with a Hydro doesn't tell us much as we don't know where he hit the beast. Iím assuming for a DRT shot he must have done a brain or spine shot? Most any bullet will do that.




Thanks for the reply. True your comment. Most reasonable bullets can be used for a brain shot if the bullet can be put in the right place. A .22RF on a spine shot though? And what works in cattle yards isn't true for the hunting fields. I remember my first water buffalo. When it was down and trying to rise yet again with a broken shoulder and I shot it in the head and "brain" with a 480 gr Woodleigh FMJ RN and it went down dead ... stunned ... another bullet an inch away and it was dead. Two holes in the headskin very close together. But when skinned, only one hole in the skull. The other bullet must have ricocheted off the skull, perhaps a last second change in angle of the head? No idea. Seems impossible. No doubt a magical hydro would have penetrated the length of the beast and came out the tip of its tail. There is a rule, shit happens in the field sometimes.


Quote:

BTW the cattle beast I shot with my Webley using a cast 250gr at about 650fps had a broken leg and was standing quietly 3 or 4 metres away in a river bed. I head shot it dropping it on the spot. Although I shot a few goats and a couple of red deer with the Webley, I would no more promote it as a buffalo cartridge than a 22RF when hunting in the wild but both are capable of dropping a large beast under the right circumstances with the right shot.

To give the Webley itís due I would take some comfort from having it on the hip in case anything ever went wrong when hunting dangerous animals, certainly for cats and buffalo if you can get a head or neck shot at close range the 455 Webley is more than capable of turning their lights out, better than a knife.




Quote:

To give the Webley itís due I would take some comfort from having it on the hip in case anything ever went wrong when hunting dangerous animals




And also useful when wrestlings with a salty croc when filling the water bucket!

I wish! Maybe the last for a selected few in the NT but for the rest of us mortals in Australia, only a dream.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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500Boswell
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Reged: 21/07/06
Posts: 886
Loc: Queensland
Re: 7mm 140 gr Hydro-Solid .284" - Who has used these? [Re: NitroX]
      #319873 - 16/09/18 08:40 AM

I have an open mind towards them ,never used them ,the cost of a lot of these projs ,including some American brass Barnes @ $4.00 plus each is getting expensive ,ok if you are on an expensive safari ,I shot a buffalo with a Bertram 750 gr 577 bullet soft point ,entered the front inside shoulder exited at the pelvis ,about 4 feet ,was impressed with that . Would be interesting to see how they perform in 500 cals and up ,possibly the best dangerous game proj

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Postman
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Reged: 25/09/13
Posts: 582
Loc: Canada
Re: 7mm 140 gr Hydro-Solid .284" - Who has used these? [Re: 500Boswell]
      #319894 - 17/09/18 10:15 PM

When one spends $30k USD or more on a DG hunt, the cost of the bullet is immaterial. Nor is there such a thing as a ďmagicĒ bullet, pardon the pun. Use a premium grade bullet that YOU have confidence in. I perforated my first buffalo with 7 shots from a .500NE using Barnes banded solids before it tipped over. 5 of the 7 shots were placed in the vitals. For me, Iíd use the banded solids again without reservations, but Iím very game to try the Hydros on my next DG hunt. Both Hydros and Barnes shoot quite accurately and function well in my DG rifles. Iím sure either will do quite well on game so it comes down to which of the two is available at the ammo store when I need to replenish the supplies. Availability can be challenging at times depending upon which country you call home.

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