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Marrakai
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 2693
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Sistema Colt Modelo 1927
      #318819 - 05/08/18 11:28 PM

After spending 5 weeks travelling in Chile and Argentina a few months back, I became very interested in the firearms carried by the ever-present mounted police guarding street-corners and plazas, or marching in seemingly-impromptu parades. Any attempt to get a closer look at the service pistols, normally concealed in leather flap-holsters, was met with hostile stares from their custodians!

Not wishing to extend my holiday in a South American jail, I postponed this research interest until safely back in Oz. While web-searching Argentina's colourful small-arms history through the 1900s I came across a Sistema Colt for sale, and took the plunge.

The pistol is roll-marked "C.F.S." for Consejo Federale de Securidad, the Federal Council for Security set up by Juan Domingo Peron to give him absolute control over all of Argentina's numerous police forces. According to Clawson, only 100 Sistema Colts were made for the CFS, in 1954, but there were clearly more. This one has the highest serial number listed on the 1911forum site where they maintain a thread on the CFS-marked Sistema Colts.



The pistol came with original black leather flap-holster, spare mag in a pouch on the drop-loop, all parts with matching-numbers including magazine. It has not been arsenal-refurbished like those surplussed in the US during the 1990s, instead it came to Australia via Germany acquiring German proof-marks along the way.

Unfortunately the original barrel is worn beyond serviceable limits, barely holding a group at 7 metres, but I was lucky enough to find a brand-new 1990s-era Thompson barrel and fitted it myself. This is my first 1911, so steep learning-curve, assisted greatly by borrowed copies of Kuhnhausen's bibles. Shot it yesterday with perfect satisfaction, fed and ejected perfectly, all in the black at 25 metres with 6 o'clock hold. ...if anything stringing horizontally a bit, not sure how fussy I should be. Also puts a couple of tiny marks on the case, at 4 and 8 o'clock just below the case-mouth, might need to widen the barrel-ramp a smidge more.

Quickly discovering that 1911 Colts are just as addictive as British double rifles! Might need to buy a few more lottery tickets...

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au


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93x64mm
.400 member


Reged: 07/12/11
Posts: 1382
Loc: Nth QLD Australia
Re: Sistema Colt Modelo 1927 [Re: Marrakai]
      #318833 - 06/08/18 06:11 AM

Is it in .45ACP & if so what events are you allowed to use it in?

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ducmarc
.400 member


Reged: 14/07/14
Posts: 1062
Loc: fla
Re: Sistema Colt Modelo 1927 [Re: 93x64mm]
      #318859 - 07/08/18 11:44 AM

i've got a 1927 F.M.A.P marked one .it was issued to my dad while on the navy target team in the fiftys along with an h&r leatherneck and a p17 accurized with a tomphson sight. being a cheif when he drummed out they surplusd his guns out to him. he sold the p17 but kept the sight and the 1911 and the H&R. if u like shooting that try a gold cup. mine runs like a sewing machine.how our navy ended up with a colt systima i have know idea.probably screwing with my dad.

--------------------
'killed by death' Lemmy.. ' boil the dog ' Elvis Manywounds "my best friend is my magnum forty four" hank willams the third.


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Marrakai
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 2693
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: Sistema Colt Modelo 1927 [Re: ducmarc]
      #318866 - 07/08/18 10:53 PM

The Sistema Colt is indeed a .45 but is marked 11.25mm being the metric equivalent. They were supposedly made to be fully interchangeable with the Hartford Colt 1911s that Argentina had been importing from the US between the wars.

Not really suitable for the range matches I normally shoot, but in the Northern Territory it can be discharged any time on a Collectors Licence with the right authorisation.

I have thought about shooting the Australia Day, Anzac Day, and Rememberence Day Service Pistol matches with it, but have been doing quite well with my Mk.VI Webley revolver (often win the precision, but not the rapid-fire! Managed an overall 2nd last year though).

ducmarc: I'd love a Gold Cup, will keep an eye out for an affordable example but probably can't hold my breath for that long! Was your dad's pistol roll-marked MARINA DE GUERRA, MARINA ARGENTINA, OR ARMADA ARGENTINA on the slide? Judging by the build quality of the Sistema Colt in my custody, I would say your dad kicked a goal!

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au


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tinker
.416 member


Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 3779
Loc: Nevada
Re: Sistema Colt Modelo 1927 [Re: Marrakai]
      #318870 - 08/08/18 12:59 AM

Nice little bit of history there.

Let us know how you do in the matches!

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...


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Rothhammer1
.375 member


Reged: 06/01/17
Posts: 796
Loc: The Redwoods of California
Re: Sistema Colt Modelo 1927 [Re: Marrakai]
      #319195 - 20/08/18 03:56 PM

Quote:

After spending 5 weeks travelling in Chile and Argentina a few months back,




While in Chile did you, perchance, sample any of my Chilean cousins' product? They are based in Santiago.



--------------------
Citizen of the Cherokee Nation


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Rothhammer1
.375 member


Reged: 06/01/17
Posts: 796
Loc: The Redwoods of California
Re: Sistema Colt Modelo 1927 [Re: Rothhammer1]
      #319196 - 20/08/18 04:01 PM

Chilean Luger: http://www.phoenixinvestmentarms.com/1844chilean00.htm

--------------------
Citizen of the Cherokee Nation


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Vladymere
.300 member


Reged: 11/08/15
Posts: 137
Loc: North Carolina, USA
Re: Sistema Colt Modelo 1927 [Re: Rothhammer1]
      #319202 - 20/08/18 11:35 PM

ducmarc,

What is a P17? I am familiar with the British P14 or Pattern 14 and the US Model of 1917 but not a P17 but not a P14.

The Argentine System Colts are made on equipment sold to Argentina by Colt so all parts should be fully interchangeable. I have one of these also. Mine is from the Argentine air force and was refurbished by the Argies so it is a gray phosphate parkerized finish.



Vlad


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Marrakai
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 2693
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: Sistema Colt Modelo 1927 [Re: Vladymere]
      #319390 - 28/08/18 12:16 AM

Vlad:
One could speculate on the possibility that your 'Aeronautica Argentina' Colt may have seen service in the Malvinas!

I was able to discover that the equipment used to build Sistema Colts at Esteban de Luca Arsenal (Buenos Aires) from 1936 to 1942, and the FMAP at Rosario from 1942 to 1966, was imported from Germany. Colt did supply the blueprints and tooling though, and the technicians to set it all up in the first place apparently.

Full parts interchangeability with the Hartford Colts that Argentina had been importing from the US since WW1 was indeed a mandatory design specification of the Sistema Colts.

I just did a 7-page article for our local Arms Collectors Journal on the CFS Sistema Colts, to be published in October. There is a ton of info on the web, great fun researching these interesting pistols.

And Rothhammer....
There doesn't exist a beer in Chile we didn't try!

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au


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Vladymere
.300 member


Reged: 11/08/15
Posts: 137
Loc: North Carolina, USA
Re: Sistema Colt Modelo 1927 [Re: Marrakai]
      #319401 - 28/08/18 11:12 AM

Thanks for the info Marrakai.

Vlad


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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 28019
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Sistema Colt Modelo 1927 [Re: Marrakai]
      #319476 - 31/08/18 01:18 AM

Quote:

After spending 5 weeks travelling in Chile and Argentina a few months back,




Marrakai, I wish I had known that when in Darwin at your house, I would have loved to hear about your trip. A visited Chile and Peru a few years ago, (?) and in Chile only Santiago and Valpariso plus a wine district in between, and am keen to return one day. Plus Argentia. Would love to hear of your travels.

Quote:


Not really suitable for the range matches I normally shoot, but in the Northern Territory it can be discharged any time on a Collectors Licence with the right authorisation.




I am more than envious of your collectors licence laws in the NT. Ours are terrible, require X number (four or six?) attendances at meetings or events for members to keep their licence. Opened to allow "distance" methods for non city members though. No ammunition can be owned for the collectors firearm. One shoot allowed only per year. No ammunition can be kept after the shoot. Attempts were made to open up the shoots per year to three or more, but the Police pulled back to the old laws and no improvements at all.

The NT is far far better.

And the last thing they would want is people owning 1911 .45's ...

Good luck with it and have fun.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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