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bjlooper
.224 member

Reged: 27/03/05
Posts: 11
Loc: Mississippi, USA

RECOIL 470NE / 500NE / 577NE ???
#31786 - 23/05/05 06:18 PM

I have never shot a DR but I'm getting ready to buy one. The caliber selection is difficult, I know that the 577NE will have more stoping power than the others but i don't know if if the recoil will be a problem. Can any one give me a point of reference for the 577NE , 500NE and 470NE.

Thanks

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Marrakai
.416 member

Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3599
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia

Re: RECOIL 470NE / 500NE / 577NE ??? [Re: bjlooper]
#31792 - 23/05/05 09:18 PM

It depends on a number of factors which are very difficult to quantify in a post like this. Stock fit is very important, but given good stock fit, overall gun weight is the critical statistic. If all three are chambered in a 10-pound rifle, the .470 will be usefull but the others will kick you into next week. At 11-pounds, the .470 will be a pussy, the .500 manageable (just), and the .577 still a brute. Add another few pounds for a sweet-shooting .577.
So... How much weight do you want to carry around the paddock all day?

In an 11-pound gun, the .470 will generate a bit over 70 ft-lbs of recoil energy, the .500 perhaps 85 ft-lbs or a bit more, depending on the load, whereas the .577 churns up way over 100 ft-lbs, maybe 130 ft-lbs or so, in that gun-weight.

Just remembered: here's an idea I tossed up a year or so back: long-time posters will be reaching for the sick-bag, its just my opinion!

Suggested DR Chambering

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

Edited by Marrakai (23/05/05 09:43 PM)

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jjs
.224 member

Reged: 08/03/05
Posts: 18

Re: RECOIL 470NE / 500NE / 577NE ??? [Re: bjlooper]
#31806 - 23/05/05 11:23 PM

bjlooper:

I am from the Memphis, TN area...If you are close by you are welcome to come up and shoot my Merkel 470 NE?

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clark7781
.375 member

Reged: 28/10/04
Posts: 612
Loc: Fairfax County, Virginia, USA

Re: RECOIL 470NE / 500NE / 577NE ??? [Re: bjlooper]
#31807 - 23/05/05 11:30 PM

bjlooper:

During the recent DRSS hunt in Texas, I got the chance to shoot both the .470 and my .500 NE back to back. They are both Merkels and running in the 10 lb range. The .470 actually weighed a bit more than my .500! (In looking at jjs' .470 and my .500 next to each other, we noticed that they both used the same exact barrels--since my .500 had less metal in the barrels, jjs' .470 weighed more than my .500!!)

My .500 did recoil more than the .470--but not too much for me. Others may disagree but I'm not one to speak for someone else. jjs' .470 had a recoil pad and during that hunt, mine didn't. However, the .500 is with JJ at Champlins as we speak getting a pad installed.

My dad is having Butch build him a .577--it should be done by the end of the year. That monster will weight 14-14.5 lbs and should be a nice rifle to shoot since it is so heavy.

If I we to give you my .02$, I would say go with the .500 if you have a recoil pad and if the gun weights 10 lbs or more. It's more gun should you need it and the recoil isn't that much more than the .470.

--------------------
Clark

Double Rifle Shooters Society
.500 NE and .577 NE

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Rell
.375 member

Reged: 03/12/04
Posts: 642
Loc: Oyster Bay, NY, USA

Re: RECOIL 470NE / 500NE / 577NE ??? [Re: clark7781]
#31814 - 24/05/05 12:32 AM

It's really a matter of opinion. I'm a big guy 6'3 220 and I can shoot an 11 lbs 470 OK. I can't hit a barn and elephant is slightly smaller then a barn with a 577. The only 500 I shot was a BP express so not much there.

So far I prefer the 450\400 3 (or3 1\4) for precission and recoil confort, that rifle weighed around 10lbs. It was a pleasure to shoot and I could put 4 inch groups 3r 3l at 100 yards. At 50 the group was closer to 2 iches.

Gun fit, a good recoil pad and don't shoot of the bench until you get comfortable with your cannon.

PS. What about those recoil mercury reduction thing amabobs?

--------------------
450-400, 9.3x74r and 7x65r.

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clark7781
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Reged: 28/10/04
Posts: 612
Loc: Fairfax County, Virginia, USA

Re: RECOIL 470NE / 500NE / 577NE ??? [Re: clark7781]
#31815 - 24/05/05 12:45 AM

Giving recoil more thought, the only problem I have with my .500 is my trigger finger. If I don't grip the gun firmly enough, and anchor the butt into my shoulder, when I fire off the back trigger, my index finger slams into the front trigger during recoil causing a nice chunk of skin to disappear.

That's the only gripe I have for recoil with my .500....

--------------------
Clark

Double Rifle Shooters Society
.500 NE and .577 NE

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clark7781
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Reged: 28/10/04
Posts: 612
Loc: Fairfax County, Virginia, USA

Re: RECOIL 470NE / 500NE / 577NE ??? [Re: bjlooper]
#31816 - 24/05/05 12:51 AM

bjlooper:

Tell us more about the rifle you are thinking about buying. Manufacturer, engraving, caliber, etc...

--------------------
Clark

Double Rifle Shooters Society
.500 NE and .577 NE

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new_guy
Sponsor

Reged: 10/08/04
Posts: 581
Loc: Texas

Re: RECOIL 470NE / 500NE / 577NE ??? [Re: clark7781]
#31826 - 24/05/05 01:41 AM

In reply to:

Giving recoil more thought, the only problem I have with my .500 is my trigger finger. If I don't grip the gun firmly enough, and anchor the butt into my shoulder, when I fire off the back trigger, my index finger slams into the front trigger during recoil causing a nice chunk of skin to disappear.

That's the only gripe I have for recoil with my .500....

JJ could put an articulated trigger in it while it's in his shop.

--------------------
www.heymUSA.com

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mickey
.416 member

Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho

Re: RECOIL 470NE / 500NE / 577NE ??? [Re: clark7781]
#31827 - 24/05/05 01:42 AM

I have both the 577 3" and various 450-470s. The recoil in the 577 is quite a bit more than the others. My 577 originally weighed in at 10.5lbs but now weighs 13lbs.

Stopping power is quite a bit different also.

I actually prefer the 577 2 3/4 with the 750 grain bullet. I believe it is much closer to the 500 in recoil and energy but does have the much larger bullet.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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475Guy
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Reged: 22/08/03
Posts: 1088
Loc: Kali, US

Re: RECOIL 470NE / 500NE / 577NE ??? [Re: clark7781]
#31855 - 24/05/05 07:15 AM

Clark

They've got knuckle protectors out there now. You put one on your trigger guard and it keeps your other index finger from getting bashed. I've forgotten what you call it but it definitely helps when you light off the front trigger. All the shops specializing in DR's should have them. Ask your guy about it while it's there for a recoil pad.

--------------------
Lo do they call to me,
They bid me take my place among
them in the Halls of Valhalla,
Where the brave may live forever.

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new_guy
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Reged: 10/08/04
Posts: 581
Loc: Texas

Re: RECOIL 470NE / 500NE / 577NE ??? [Re: 475Guy]
#31856 - 24/05/05 07:59 AM

In reply to:

They've got knuckle protectors out there now. You put one on your trigger guard and it keeps your other index finger from getting bashed. I've forgotten what you call it but it definitely helps when you light off the front trigger. All the shops specializing in DR's should have them. Ask your guy about it while it's there for a recoil pad.

Galazan's carries them.

--------------------
www.heymUSA.com

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Gibbs505
.333 member

Reged: 09/08/03
Posts: 442
Loc: BC, Canada

Re: RECOIL 470NE / 500NE / 577NE ??? [Re: new_guy]
#31861 - 24/05/05 09:07 AM

I have a 505 Gibbs in a 12 lb bolt action rifle. I don't find it to bad!

--------------------
So I can't spell, so what?

Those who beat their swords into ploughshares, will plough for those who don't!

Those who fail to learn from history will be doomed to repeat it

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500grains
.416 member

Reged: 16/02/04
Posts: 4732
Loc: Salt Lake City, Utah USA

Re: RECOIL 470NE / 500NE / 577NE ??? [Re: Gibbs505]
#31863 - 24/05/05 09:09 AM

It appears that the cross sectional diameter of a person's fingers is important in whether they get whacked during recoil. I have never been whacked on the finger, but guys with fatter fingers shooting the same rifles complain about the trigger guard biting into them.

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NE450No2
.375 member

Reged: 10/01/03
Posts: 942

Re: RECOIL 470NE / 500NE / 577NE ??? [Re: bjlooper]
#31865 - 24/05/05 09:26 AM

bjlooper'
You have not told us how much big bore rifle experience you have. Also you have not stated if you are looking for an English double or a new made double.
At the DRSS hunt I shot jjs's 470 and clarks 500, both Merkels, as did several other DRSS members.
The general consenus is that the 500 kicked a LOT more.
I did not find it painful in any way, it just shoved you farther back, and the rifle rose higher. It did not "bang" my hand or my trigger finger.
However if you do not have a lot of BIG bore rifle experience, and you are getting a new made double, I would go with the 470. In a British double any calibre from 450/400 to 475 No2 would be excellent.
Before you buy you should go and shoot a double rifle or two.
If the new made double you like comes in 500/416, that too would be a great choice.
If you do a search you can find some pictures from our last DRSS hunt. All of our doubles are pictured.

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atkinson6
.375 member

Reged: 26/01/04
Posts: 678
Loc: Idaho

Re: RECOIL 470NE / 500NE / 577NE ??? [Re: NE450No2]
#31867 - 24/05/05 10:02 AM

Inasmuch as you have never shot a double rifle its apparant that you will have to deal with the recoil...those guns recoil in the order you mention, the .470 kicks hard, and the other two are worse..thats the real world...

The recoil of the double rifles is only a maidens caress in the fantasy world of the internet, where hardy souls can shoot the 577 and 600 N.E. with aplomb...

I would suggest you have Butch Searcy make you a 450-400-3", its much nicer to shoot, recoil is still there but far less than the others, and its a very capable round. Also I recently shot a 500/416 as I felt it was the caliber, but loaded properly it recoils about like my .470 it seems.

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new_guy
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Reged: 10/08/04
Posts: 581
Loc: Texas

Re: RECOIL 470NE / 500NE / 577NE ??? [Re: bjlooper]
#31874 - 24/05/05 11:23 AM

There's more to "recoil" than the push on the shoulder.

I'm a not what I would consider a recoil sensitive shooter, as i've owned, loaded for and shot everything in the 416s and 458lott. I say i'm not recoil sensitive b/c despite the recoil, i could shoot them well, i.e. never developed any flinches and could print good groups. Got bruised, but never got "scared of" them.

Now, I buy my first double (470 of course) and it wasn't that the recoil was that much more violent than the 416s or the 458lott, but what was different was that it gave me an instant, micro-migrane headache that lasted for about 4-seconds everytime I pulled the trigger.

Well, i didn't have that gun too long. I could shoot it well, but it was clearly more than my body (brain) could stand.

The 470 is a great round, but I'm with ray here - a 450/400 can be built in a lighter rifle with more managable recoil. Even if you become a professional elephant hunter, it'll suit the job just fine.

It's not about "how much recoil you can handle" but "how much recoil should have to handle?"

--------------------
www.heymUSA.com

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jjs
.224 member

Reged: 08/03/05
Posts: 18

Re: RECOIL 470NE / 500NE / 577NE ??? [Re: bjlooper]
#31934 - 25/05/05 02:30 AM

I replied back to your PM...number you gave did not work.

Having shot my 470 (both before and after putting a recoil pad on it) and shooting Clark's 500 (prior to his putting a recoil pad on it) my impression is the 500 has a greater push to it and a slightly increased "recovery" time due to muzzle jump. Clark will be glad he put a recoil pad on his rifle as it certainly reduces the felt recoil.

IMO if you can handle the 470 you can handle a 500 but neither are for the faint of heart and shoulder! If the 470 causes you any concern (and you should shoot one first before purchasing one) then stay away from 500 and over!

Clark, hopefully your Dad's 577 will be complete when the next DRSS Hog Hunt is set...I would certainly like to meet your Dad and have an "introduction" to the 577! Never shot one of Butch's guns and would like to give one a try....

Ray, possibly you could attend the next DRSS Hog Hunt and bring your 470 that Butch won the Double Rifle contest with!
I enjoyed meeting all the guys at the DRSS shoot and look forward to doing it again!

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clark7781
.375 member

Reged: 28/10/04
Posts: 612
Loc: Fairfax County, Virginia, USA

Re: RECOIL 470NE / 500NE / 577NE ??? [Re: jjs]
#31936 - 25/05/05 03:51 AM

jjs:

Great to hear from you, dude...

JJ has had my .500 for two weeks now and I just emailed him yesterday to see how much it would cost for an articulated front trigger.

Regarding the .577, the old man is like a kid on Christmas Eve...Butch said he wants to have the cannon finished by January 1, 2006 and asked my Pop if he could take it to the SCI convention with him in January '06.

Right now we are still waiting for the engraving quote to come back.

If my old man can't make the DRSS hunt, I'll bring that howitzer with me and we'll lob rounds into Mexico with it...

--------------------
Clark

Double Rifle Shooters Society
.500 NE and .577 NE

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rgp
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Reged: 17/06/04
Posts: 373
Loc: TX & VIC

Re: RECOIL 470NE / 500NE / 577NE ??? [Re: bjlooper]
#31963 - 25/05/05 01:09 PM

If you are ordering a new double, why not go for a .450-400 or a .470 or the short .577 Marrakai suggested, and while you're waiting for it to arrive, get a Ruger #1 in .458 Lott and some reloading dies...start shooting the .458 Lott with pipsqueak 1,000 fps loads in a .458 Win. case, and change loads every week to increase the velocity by 50 or 100 fps. Most likely if done that way you'll adapt easily and after a couple of months you should be able to handle just about any rifle made.

Richard.

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AfricanHunter
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Reged: 01/02/04
Posts: 60
Loc: Nebraska, USA

Re: RECOIL 470NE / 500NE / 577NE ??? [Re: bjlooper]
#32327 - 30/05/05 03:00 AM

Well, I've hunted with all three. In my opinion the old story you'll never notice the recoild when shooting game is hog wash. Yes, you don't notice it like at the range, but you will darn well know when you shot a .577 in place of the .470. Stock fit is really important, but anyway you cut it a .500 kicks more than and .470 and a .577 more than a .500 unless you add excessive weight to carry

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Geronimo
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Reged: 14/04/04
Posts: 83
Loc: Michigan,USA

Re: RECOIL 470NE / 500NE / 577NE ??? [Re: AfricanHunter]
#32421 - 31/05/05 01:32 AM

I've never shot a .577, however I own and shoot a .500 NE and a .470 NE. IMHO weight, fit, and stock design are very important. Having shot a number of doubles in the above two calibers and similar calibers I have formed a few opinions that I believe in. These comments assume that the fit and design of the stock are optimal for the shooter.
1) a .470 NE should weigh 10-10.75 lbs.
2) a .500 NE should weigh 10.75-11.5 lbs.
3) powder charge type and weight can have a noticeable impact on perceived recoil
4) shooting a large bore bolt or single shot or bolt gun does not give the same "feel" to the recoil as a double.
5) in a gun of proper weight, etc. there is a moderate, all be it noticeable, increase in recoil between the .470 NE and the .500 NE. There is also, however, a noticeable difference in it's effect on large game.

These are my own perceptions and I realize not everyone will agree. But I feel they are worth every penny you paid for them.

Geronimo

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atkinson6
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Reged: 26/01/04
Posts: 678
Loc: Idaho

Re: RECOIL 470NE / 500NE / 577NE ??? [Re: Geronimo]
#32766 - 08/06/05 09:54 AM

Heck I can shoot them all, have for years, don't have flinch as yet, but the 458 Lott and up (including the .470) messes with my wilderness experience!

I just load my 470 down to 2020 FPS and all is well, with two quick shots it will turn a buff over and leave all 4 feet sticking straight up most of the time, contrary to some folks thinking, thats good enough for me...

The Cape Buffalo is not a sherman tank, he is flesh and blood and if you put about any big bore bullet in or close to his heart, the game is over, if you gut shoot him them a 600 N.E. is pretty worthless and your in deep do do....

I have seen two seperate ocassion, on the same hunt wherein a Cape buffalo took 9 shots on one and 13 on another, with a 500 N.E. and a 577 N.E., and the best thing about that is I have it all on tape...

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Maineguide
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Reged: 09/03/05
Posts: 88
Loc: New Hampshire

Re: RECOIL 470NE / 500NE / 577NE ??? [Re: atkinson6]
#32854 - 10/06/05 06:45 AM

Ray I have a .577 under agreement and have never shot a gun this big. How does the recoil compare with the .470 The gun weighs in at 13.5 lbs and is quite a bit heavier than most .470's

Bob

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clark7781
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Reged: 28/10/04
Posts: 612
Loc: Fairfax County, Virginia, USA

Re: RECOIL 470NE / 500NE / 577NE ??? [Re: Maineguide]
#32891 - 11/06/05 02:13 AM

In reply to:

I have a .577 under agreement

A Searcy?

--------------------
Clark

Double Rifle Shooters Society
.500 NE and .577 NE

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Maineguide
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Reged: 09/03/05
Posts: 88
Loc: New Hampshire

Re: RECOIL 470NE / 500NE / 577NE ??? [Re: clark7781]
#32938 - 12/06/05 03:12 AM

Yes it is as a matter of fact and I can't wait to get it in

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