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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Single Shots & Combination Guns

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Louis
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Reged: 13/05/15
Posts: 279
Loc: France
German & Austrian single-shot & combination classic rifles
      #316766 - 24/05/18 11:11 PM

I have for a couple of years now been on the hunt for classic single-shot and combination rifles shooting factory ammunition in European calibres (6,5x57R ; 7x65R ; 8x57JRS) as hunting with single-shot rifles represents to me the quintessence of the fair chase concept.

I started by looking for pre-WW2 Sauer & Sohn models, however they are really hard to find and command extremely high prices when available in mint condition or have often been altered. I subsequently noticed that immediate post-WW2 Sauer & Sohn production at Eckenförde (then in Western Germany) had almost the same characteristics as the pre-WW2 one, was slightly more available as well as more affordable and I therefore re-directed my search.

My two-year long quest after single-shot and combination rifles is now over - probably only for a short period of time as one knows that the quest for rifles is a never ending concern, and I wanted to share with you photos of my rifles, from top to below (1) combination ‘bockbüchsflinte’ (BBF) Sauer & Sohn (Eckenförde) Mod. 54, (2) single shot ‘kipplauf’ Sauer & Sohn (Eckenförde) Mod. IX, and (3) ‘kipplauf’ Benedikt Winkler (Ferlach).




BBF Sauer & Sohn (Eckenförde) Mod. 54:
- Manufactured in 1965.
- Calibres: 16/70 (full choke) & 6,5x57R; best accuracy with RWS DK 9,1 grams (140 grains) bullets.
- Kersteen Greener bolt; Bochumer Verein steel barrels; all original parts but the trigger guard, which I recently replaced with a vintage horn-made one kindly provided by Lancaster; original stock length & Sauer butt plate.
- Total lenght: 106 cm; barrels length: 65 cm; weight without scope: 3 kg; weight with scope: 3,6 kg.
- Fitted with a Zeiss Diatal 6x42 rifle scope.
- I found this rifle in Austria. Mod. 54 BBFs seem to have in their time been a S&S success sale and are not uncommon on the second-hand market in Western Europe.








Kipplauf Sauer & Sohn (Eckenförde) Mod. IX:
- Manufactured in 1957.
- Calibre: 6,5x57R; best accuracy with RWS DK 9,1 grams (140 grains) bullets.
- Kersteen Greener bolt; all original parts; original stock length & Sauer butt plate; half-octagonal & half-round Bochumer Verein steel barrel.
- In addition to German proofmarks this rifle also bears Ferlach proofmarks as it went in 1972 through riflemaker Outschar’s workshop for unidentified work.
- Total lenght: 106 cm; barrel length: 65 cm; weight without scope: 3 kg; weight with scope: 3,5 kg.
- Initially fitted with a Zeiss 4x32 rifle scope, now replaced by a Khales KX 2-7x36.
- I would be grateful to any Forum member able to share with me a copy of the S&S 1957 or 1958 catalog as I would like to check in which calibers was this kipplauf offered then.
- Sourced in Germany. I do not know whether kipplaufs Mod. IX were produced in small quantities or during a short period of time only as they do not come very often on the used rifles market.








Kipplauf Benedikt Winkler (Ferlach):
- Manufactured in 1971.
- Calibre: 7x65R; best accuracy with RWS KS 8 grams (123 grains) bullets.
- Kersteen Greener bolt; one-third octagonal & two-third round barrel.
- Total lenght: 106 cm; barrel length: 65 cm; weight without scope: 3,1 kg; weight with scope: 3,8 kg.
- Currently fitted with a Swarovski Habicht 1,5-6x42 rifle scope; I aim to have it fitted after the 2018 hunting season with a Swarovski Z3 2,5-10x42 that will bring better magnification and lower weight.
- Purchased in France. I had initially not planned to buy this rifle however it was love at first sight and I am convinced that the high velocity (V0: 930 m/s – 3050 ft/sec) and flat trajectory (MRD: 186 meters - 203 yards) 7x65R 123-grain bullet will perform well on light mountain game!





I do like these rifles because I find them utterly classical in style. They are to me the epitome of what classic working rifles should be i.e. perfect blending of steel and wood, minimalistic decoration as well as emphasis put on a rifle’s core value (quality steel, smooth working action, accuracy, and matching stock of nice but not fancy wood) instead of on a flashy appearance (‘excessive’ engraving and exhibition wood) ; but I reckon this is really a matter of personal taste.



I will take them out for hunting this year, no doubt they should already have a good track record with their previous owners, and I will keep you posted on the results.

Louis

--------------------
"Everything that doesn't kill me makes me stronger"


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93x64mm
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Reged: 07/12/11
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Re: German & Austrian single-shot & combination classic rifles [Re: Louis]
      #316773 - 25/05/18 07:27 AM

Loius, I for one are certainly jealous!
No wonder you couldn't say no to the Kipplauf, it is certainly in a very good if not almost pristine condition - let alone the calibre!
You certainly have an unique & frankly charming collection, looking forward eagerly about your hunting reports with them.
93x64mm


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Rothhammer1
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Reged: 06/01/17
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Re: German & Austrian single-shot & combination classic rifles [Re: 93x64mm]
      #316781 - 25/05/18 11:11 AM


C'est magnifique!

--------------------
Citizen of the Cherokee Nation


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DORLEAC
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Reged: 22/01/12
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Loc: Perpignan, France
Re: German & Austrian single-shot & combination classic rifles [Re: Rothhammer1]
      #316805 - 25/05/18 10:20 PM

Belle collection mon Ami...et elle va encore grandir!
Content d'y être pour quelque chose.
Il va falloir tester tout ça sur le terrain.

DORLEAC
www.dorleac-dorleac.com


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HistoricBore
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Reged: 28/09/11
Posts: 194
Loc: southern England
Re: German & Austrian single-shot & combination classic rifles [Re: DORLEAC]
      #316822 - 26/05/18 08:16 AM

Vraiment a mon gout aussi! Tres simple , mais avec un fabrication efficace et classique.

Impeccable! Bon chance avec la chasse; nous attendrons les photos.....

HB


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Ash
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Re: German & Austrian single-shot & combination classic rifles [Re: HistoricBore]
      #316826 - 26/05/18 07:29 PM

Beautiful rifles, good sir!

--------------------
.


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Louis
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Reged: 13/05/15
Posts: 279
Loc: France
Re: German & Austrian single-shot & combination classic rifles [Re: Ash]
      #316832 - 26/05/18 10:03 PM

Cher Joël, merci beaucoup et à bientôt en Canigou pour la concrétisation.

Dear All, thank you very much for your kind comments. Owing to his natural sense of modesty I didn’t mentioned initially that the Winkler kipplauf (as well as many more items I have in stock) was provided to me by the master rifle smith that the World envies to the French - along with the Eiffel Tower, and of whom a selection of other fine second-hand rifles can be consulted at http://www.dorleac-dorleac.com/guns/fine-second-hand-guns/?lang=en and at http://www.dorleac-dorleac.com/armes-2/archives/ , for those (if any) not yet addicted to the website !

Louis

--------------------
"Everything that doesn't kill me makes me stronger"


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lancaster
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Re: German & Austrian single-shot & combination classic rifles [Re: Louis]
      #316858 - 28/05/18 12:34 AM

"I started by looking for pre-WW2 Sauer & Sohn models, however they are really hard to find and command extremely high prices when available in mint condition or have often been altered. I subsequently noticed that immediate post-WW2 Sauer & Sohn production at Eckenförde (then in Western Germany) had almost the same characteristics as the pre-WW2 one, was slightly more available as well as more affordable and I therefore re-directed my search."


unfortunately its true that pre ww2 S&S Kipplaufbüchsen are "overprized" today, they were rare than and now and build on special order for wealthy gentleman so made in a high standard. not alone this there are some idiots around today who are able to screw a weaver rail and a plastic stock on this.

much underrated today are Sauer&Sohn Tellbüchsen build mostly for today obsolete caliber and not exactly a high power "Karpathenbüchse".
something like this http://egun.de/market/item.php?id=6978547

this Tellbüchsen were affordable and light build single shots

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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Louis
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Reged: 13/05/15
Posts: 279
Loc: France
Re: German & Austrian single-shot & combination classic rifles [Re: lancaster]
      #316862 - 28/05/18 02:37 AM

Thank you Lancaster; I was aware of the Tellbüchsen but they are not of the type of kipplaufbüchsen I was looking for.
Louis

--------------------
"Everything that doesn't kill me makes me stronger"


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Waidmannsheil
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Reged: 19/04/13
Posts: 1410
Loc: Melbourne Australia
Re: German & Austrian single-shot & combination classic rifles [Re: Louis]
      #316955 - 30/05/18 09:21 PM

Very nice collection Louis. I to am a big fan of combination guns and Kipplauf Buechsen but unfortunately the latter are very rare here in Australia. They all look very nice particularly the Winkler from Ferlach.

I was lucky myself recently and picked up a Merkel Model 210E in 16-70 over 6.5x65R (Was 6.5x57R) in good condition. I will post some photos when I can.

Thanks again and well done.

--------------------
There is nothing wrong with vegetarian food, so long as there is meat with it.


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Louis
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Reged: 13/05/15
Posts: 279
Loc: France
Re: German & Austrian single-shot & combination classic rifles [Re: Waidmannsheil]
      #316956 - 30/05/18 09:25 PM

Thank you Waidmannsheil, please do share photos of your Merkel 210E when you can.
Louis

--------------------
"Everything that doesn't kill me makes me stronger"


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kuduae
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Reged: 13/01/10
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Re: German & Austrian single-shot & combination classic rifles [Re: Louis]
      #317012 - 03/06/18 07:45 AM

Quote:

It is true that pre ww2 S&S Kipplaufbüchsen are "overprized" today, they were rare than and now and build on special order for wealthy gentleman so made in a high standard.



Not all pre-WW2 Sauer & Sohn Kipplaufbüchsen were made to high standards on special order. In 1936 they introduced their no frills "Sauer – Einheitsbüchse Modell 36". Soon my grandfather bought one in 7x57R, proofed March 1937.
Quote:

I started by looking for pre-WW2 Sauer & Sohn models, however they are really hard to find and command extremely high prices when available in mint condition or have often been altered.
Louis



Yes, as many guns in Germany had a sorry fate at the end of the war. So did my grandfather's S&S M36. In 1945 he oiled it, packed it with oiled or greased rags, put it in a wood box and buried it in a fox burrow out in the woods. When he unearthed it five years later, the stock was rotten and the metal badly rusted in places, though the barrel is still ok. He had some local country "gunsmith" refurbish and restock it. That stock was the clumsiest "Schützen – type" club I have ever seen. In addition that blacksmith ruined the claw mounts so they would not hold zero any more. After I inherited the rifle 40 years ago, I removed about half of the superfluous timber, trying to give it a halfway decent shape. I replaced the then defective double set trigger with a single, non setting one. Instead of the buggered up claw mount bases I inletted a pair of early Warne bases into the rib recesses and mounted a Hensoldt/Zeiss Diasta D 4x scope. This is what it looks like now:



. It is certainly not an item collectors are looking for, but the rifle is part of my family and personal history. I don't need another Kipplaufbüchse. Maybe I will hand it to a really good gunsmith some day to have it restocked again, but that's quite low on my priority list. Maybe my son or one of my grandsons will do it some day.
BTW, that S&S M36 is known as the "Illing" in my family. A name I invented when I was about 5 years old, 65 years ago. You see, I was sort of a gun nut even then and I could count at least to three. The conversation was in German, of course. On the aftermath of a hunt I looked over the guns standing in a rack. "What a gun is this, with drei = three barrels?" – " Such agun is called a Drilling (litterally = triplet) because of the drei = three barrels." " Then this one with zwei = two holes may be a Zwilling (= twin) ?" - "Yes, such doubles are sometimes called Zwillings" "I understand! Now, that gun with ein = one barrel must be an Illing!"


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Louis
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Reged: 13/05/15
Posts: 279
Loc: France
Re: German & Austrian single-shot & combination classic rifles [Re: kuduae]
      #317019 - 03/06/18 04:58 PM

Thank you very much, Kuduae, your advice, comments or background information are always much valuable. Would you by chance have any idea on where I could find the copy of a pre-1960 Sauer & Sohn (Eckenförde) catalog?
Louis

--------------------
"Everything that doesn't kill me makes me stronger"


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kuduae
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Re: German & Austrian single-shot & combination classic rifles [Re: Louis]
      #317023 - 03/06/18 08:07 PM

Quote:

Would you by chance have any idea on where I could find the copy of a pre-1960 Sauer & Sohn (Eckenförde) catalog?
Louis



Sorry, no idea. Cornell sells a copy of a post-1951 S&S catalog, http://www.cornellpubs.com/old-guns/item_desc.php?item_id=636 . This may be a bit too early for you, as the o-u combination M and the Kipplaufbüchse M IX were introduced 1954 and 55.


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Louis
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Reged: 13/05/15
Posts: 279
Loc: France
Re: German & Austrian single-shot & combination classic rifles [Re: kuduae]
      #317025 - 03/06/18 09:20 PM

Thank you Kuduae; as you already mentioned it that's a bit too early for me. Anyway, I'll keep on looking for and I am sure a copy should, one day, come out of the blue!
Louis

--------------------
"Everything that doesn't kill me makes me stronger"


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lancaster
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Re: German & Austrian single-shot & combination classic rifles [Re: Louis]
      #317030 - 04/06/18 02:00 AM

I had a Sauer&Sohn advertisement on stock that shows the Einheits -Kipplaufbüchse



it points to the international hunting exihibition Berlin 1937 so probably from early 1937


pics of a post war Sauer & Sohn AG Eckernförde single shot proofed in 12/56, dont looks like the pre war rifle anymore













--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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Louis
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Loc: France
Re: German & Austrian single-shot & combination classic rifles [Re: lancaster]
      #317031 - 04/06/18 02:29 AM

Thank you very much Lancaster. The 12/57 kipplauf was probably manufactured at the same time as mine, although it looks to have been re-stocked in a kind of 'Bayerishe' style while the original factory stock and fore-end are provided separately; would you by chance know about the caliber?
Louis

--------------------
"Everything that doesn't kill me makes me stronger"


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lancaster
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Re: German & Austrian single-shot & combination classic rifles [Re: Louis]
      #317032 - 04/06/18 03:49 AM

yes, the original stock aside looks like the pre war Kipplauf

was a 8x57IRS but rebore to 9x57R later

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by lancaster (04/06/18 03:51 AM)


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Louis
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Re: German & Austrian single-shot & combination classic rifles [Re: lancaster]
      #317033 - 04/06/18 04:10 AM

Thank you.

--------------------
"Everything that doesn't kill me makes me stronger"


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Sunshine
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Re: German & Austrian single-shot & combination classic rifles [Re: Louis]
      #317383 - 19/06/18 08:52 PM

Looks great, congratulations. I used to have a Sauer 3000 Lux Drilling but sold it 'cause I don't need shotgun barrels anymore. Now I'm hunting mainly with a double barrel rifle 9,3x74R and a Kipplaufbüchse 6,5x57R both from Krieghoff.

But the gun closest to my heart is a Ferlach Hahnbüchsflinte (Cape gun) with hammers, built in 1919, 9,3x72R - 16/65.


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Louis
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Loc: France
Re: German & Austrian single-shot & combination classic rifles [Re: Sunshine]
      #317467 - 23/06/18 04:56 PM

Sunshine, thank you for your input; please share pictures of your rifles when you can.
Louis

--------------------
"Everything that doesn't kill me makes me stronger"


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lancaster
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Re: German & Austrian single-shot & combination classic rifles [Re: Sunshine]
      #317473 - 23/06/18 09:37 PM

Quote:

But the gun closest to my heart is a Ferlach Hahnbüchsflinte (Cape gun) with hammers, built in 1919, 9,3x72R - 16/65.




hammers are allways the best

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: German & Austrian single-shot & combination classic rifles [Re: lancaster]
      #317653 - 01/07/18 06:19 AM

Quote:

Quote:

But the gun closest to my heart is a Ferlach Hahnbüchsflinte (Cape gun) with hammers, built in 1919, 9,3x72R - 16/65.




hammers are allways the best




Yep Hahn's are always the best.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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