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buckstix
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An Early Vintage Verney Carron .475 No.2 Nitro Express
      #317639 - 30/06/18 02:49 PM

An Early Vintage Verney Carron .475 No.2 Nitro Express

Hello Fellow Forum members.

I brought this over from another post to share information about this Vintage Double.

A Verney Carron .475 No.2 Nitro Express

Built in 1929
Weight = 10 lbs
LOP = 14-3/8"
Barrel Length = 25-3/4"
Rear Sights = 1 Stand 2 Folding on Matted Quarter Rib
Extractors
Hinged Front Trigger
Chopper-lump Barrels
Rib Extension with Scott's Hidden 3rd Bite
Reinforced Frame
Bushed Firing Pins
Reinforced Comb
Unknown Letter Monogram on Bottom of Stock Behind Grip
Unknown Silver Crest Inlay on Bottom of Stock
Silvers Style Red Recoil Pad

Markings as follows;

Left Barrel Top marked - .475 No.2 Nitro Express - Cordite - 85 Grains - 480 Grain
Right Barrel Top marked - Verney Carron - Liege
Both Barrel Bottoms marked - .475 No.2 Express - B.BLINDEE
Left Barrel Bottom marked JF - with Eagle's Head Stamp (Jean Falla)
Left Side Action marked - Verney Carron, Liege
Bottom Rib under the Forearm marked - 500 GUNS INDIANAPOLIS,IN
Various Belgium Proofs with an h 1929 Date Code
This rifle looks hardly ever used and incredibly well cared for. The action is tight as a Bank Vault and the Chambers and Bores are Mirror Bright. The rifle shows period re-blackened barrels and a cleaned action.

I've made contact with Verney Carron in France and forwarded pictures in hopes that VC may have some additional information. However, I'm told its doubtful they have any information because most of their records were lost during WWII and a later flood.

I'd like to find out if this rifle was "made by" Verney Carron in France, and proofed in Liege, or if it was "made for" Verney Carron by a Belgium maker, or if Verney Carron had a sister Company in Belgium.

As always, your comments and insights about this rifle and its markings are most welcome. I would especially like to know if anyone recognizes the Unknown "Letter Monogram" on Bottom of Stock Behind Grip, or the Unknown "Silver Crest" Inlay on the Bottom of the Stock.







































--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."


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93x64mm
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Re: An Early Vintage Verney Carron .475 No.2 Nitro Express [Re: buckstix]
      #317655 - 01/07/18 07:19 AM

A real no nonsense hunter that's for sure!
Whopper cartridge the 475 No2!


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buckstix
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Re: An Early Vintage Verney Carron .475 No.2 Nitro Express [Re: 93x64mm]
      #317701 - 03/07/18 09:14 AM

Hello 93x64mm,

Thanks for the reply.

This one has moved to the top of the list as being my favorite "Classic" Big Bore Double Rifle.

--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."


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Yochanan
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Re: An Early Vintage Verney Carron .475 No.2 Nitro Express [Re: buckstix]
      #317899 - 09/07/18 06:05 AM

475No2 that is a big cased cartridge...real cigarclass cartridge.

Very interesting rifle, looks like it have been on a few adventures.

--------------------
© "I have never been able to appreciate 'shock' as applied to killing big game. It seems to me that you cannot kill an elephant weighing six tons by ´shock´unless you advocate the use of a field gun." - W.D.M. Bell: Wanderings of an Elephant Hunter.


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93x64mm
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Re: An Early Vintage Verney Carron .475 No.2 Nitro Express [Re: buckstix]
      #317901 - 09/07/18 06:18 AM

Quote:

Hello 93x64mm,

Thanks for the reply.

This one has moved to the top of the list as being my favorite "Classic" Big Bore Double Rifle.



Now this is one cartridge I haven't heard much about, it will be an interesting read when you get this one going!


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kuduae
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Re: An Early Vintage Verney Carron .475 No.2 Nitro Express [Re: 93x64mm]
      #317914 - 09/07/18 07:44 PM

For a shotgun signed Verney – Carron a Liege see here: http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/artisans%20identifies%20t%20w/a%20verney%20caron%20gb.htm
In the 1920s V-C, St. Etienne, France, had guns made by the Liege guntrade. These guns they retailed under their own name, a practice common among European gunmakers. Even some "name" British guns were actually made in Liege, merely finished and proofed in England.


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lancaster
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Re: An Early Vintage Verney Carron .475 No.2 Nitro Express [Re: kuduae]
      #317959 - 11/07/18 04:13 AM

iirc, we had this verney carron problem here before and this was first and foremost one of the biggger trader that sold guns under his own name. made in liege for sure but I dont know how close they were to the maker.

a good double rifle you can be proud

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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AZDAVE
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Re: An Early Vintage Verney Carron .475 No.2 Nitro Express [Re: lancaster]
      #317973 - 12/07/18 06:16 AM

Nice rifle! Kirby at Vintage doubles is a nice gentleman to work with. I bought my Simson 405 Win Double form him several years ago.

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buckstix
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Re: An Early Vintage Verney Carron .475 No.2 Nitro Express [Re: AZDAVE]
      #318178 - 17/07/18 07:46 PM

Quote:

475No2 that is a big cased cartridge...real cigarclass cartridge.

Very interesting rifle, looks like it have been on a few adventures.



Hello Yochanan

Thanks for the reply.

Yes, its character shows signs of being hunted.

.

Quote:


Now this is one cartridge I haven't heard much about, it will be an interesting read when you get this one going!



Hello 93x64mm

Thanks for the reply

I hadn't heard much about this cartridge until I bought the rifle. Turns out its the "longest" cartridge of the double rifle chamberings. I find its a real classic.

.

Quote:

For a shotgun signed Verney – Carron a Liege see here: http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/artisans%20identifies%20t%20w/a%20verney%20caron%20gb.htm
In the 1920s V-C, St. Etienne, France, had guns made by the Liege guntrade. These guns they retailed under their own name, a practice common among European gunmakers. Even some "name" British guns were actually made in Liege, merely finished and proofed in England.



Hello Kuduae

Thanks for the reply.

I find the History about Verney Carron in Belgium to be very interesting.

.

Quote:

iirc, we had this verney carron problem here before and this was first and foremost one of the biggger trader that sold guns under his own name. made in liege for sure but I dont know how close they were to the maker.

a good double rifle you can be proud



Hello lanchaster

Thanks for the reply,

I doubt we'll ever know all the details about the Verney Carron business in Belgium.

.

Quote:

Nice rifle! Kirby at Vintage doubles is a nice gentleman to work with. I bought my Simson 405 Win Double form him several years ago.



Hello AZDAVE

Thanks for the reply,

Yes, Kirby is a real pleasure to work with. This is my 4th purchase from him, and I've been very happy with each one. He's Honorable, Trustworthy, and has high Integrity.

--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."


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buckstix
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Reged: 07/11/12
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Re: An Early Vintage Verney Carron .475 No.2 Nitro Express [Re: buckstix]
      #319302 - 24/08/18 08:51 PM

Hello Fellow Forum Members,

I have an update - I found a very nice Vintage Hard Case for my Vintage Verney Carron .475 No.2 NE Double rifle. It appeared on Ebay a few months back with a "make-an-offer" option, so last week I made an offer that the seller accepted. He told me that the case had belonged to his Father and that the gun it contained was sold long ago. His Father's initials are on the top. He said the case was from the 1920's or 30's so that period fits the date of my VC rifle. In addition, the case was "French" with an original "Gastinne Renette" - "Paris" label. I don't know anything about him, but when I "Googled" the name, I found several photos of some find guns that he produced.

As I've done with many other vintage cases, I reconfigured the inside to fit the VC rifle. I even added an original "VC" label to dress it up a bit.

.













--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."


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lancaster
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Re: An Early Vintage Verney Carron .475 No.2 Nitro Express [Re: buckstix]
      #319320 - 25/08/18 05:13 AM

excellent find!
Renette was allways a top address in paris

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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buckstix
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Re: An Early Vintage Verney Carron .475 No.2 Nitro Express [Re: lancaster]
      #320882 - 23/10/18 12:29 AM

Hello lancaster,

Thanks for the reply.

Best thing is that the gun fit the case with no modifications. I only added the felt covered block that was left over from another case.

--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."


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Wayne59
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Reged: 20/06/15
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Re: An Early Vintage Verney Carron .475 No.2 Nitro Express [Re: buckstix]
      #320891 - 23/10/18 04:11 AM

Hello Bucksticks. Have you found the fixens to shoot that gun yet. Been awaiting a field report.

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buckstix
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Re: An Early Vintage Verney Carron .475 No.2 Nitro Express [Re: Wayne59]
      #320892 - 23/10/18 05:35 AM

Quote:

Hello Bucksticks. Have you found the fixens to shoot that gun yet. Been awaiting a field report.



Hello Wayne59

Thanks for the reply.

Yes, I did get out to the range to test this wonderful rifle. As you may be aware, I subscribe to the 75% rule for practice shooting my double rifles. That is; 75% velocity of the regulation load using the same bullet weight. Since the regulation load for this rifle is 2200 fps with a 480g bullet, 75% velocity would be about 1650 fps with the same bullet weight. I didn't have any 480g bullets, but was able to acquire some 500g Hawk bullets in .482 dia. Here is the very first target that I shot with that load. You should have seen my smile - no buyer's remorse for this rifle.




.
.

I shot 20 shots with varying amounts of IMR 3031 powder; 70g, 75g, 80g, and the full load load which is 83.5g as was recommended by the former owner of the rifle. I shot 10 pairs total and groups ranged from 5/8" to 4-11/16" across the pairs of shots. On this next target, I shot a pair of "full power" loads on the same target as the 75% loads. As you can see, there was not a lot of difference in regulation from the 75% load to the full power load. And the 75% practice load is a lot more fun to shoot, being only 40.9 ft/lbs of recoil, instead of 70.2 ft/lbs. In the future I will shoot it with some AR5744 loads.

.
.




.
.

You may find it interesting to see how I cool my double rifles between shooting strings. I built myself a cooling tube. This improvised device really cuts down on the waiting time between shots strings. I shoot 4 rounds (2 pair) and insert the barrel into the cooling tube. This rig cools the barrels down to ambient temperature in about 3 - 5 minutes; about the time it takes me to step through the chronograph readings, record the shots in my notebook, and walk the 50 yards down-range to measure the holes in the target. This devise was made up using a 110 volt 2-speed fan, attached to various rubber and plastic plumbing adapters, and then attaching them to a 28" long piece of 4" diameter flexible plastic drainage tube. (rubber and plastic for obvious reasons) Total cost was about $35 including the 110 volt fan. Lucky we have power at our range, otherwise I would have made one with a D.C. fan to run off my 12 volt car battery.





--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."


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Wayne59
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Re: An Early Vintage Verney Carron .475 No.2 Nitro Express [Re: buckstix]
      #320893 - 23/10/18 06:48 AM

I looked at that rifle several times but backed away because of the brass. I am happy to see you got it up and running. Would you mind if I copied your cooling device.

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93x64mm
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Re: An Early Vintage Verney Carron .475 No.2 Nitro Express [Re: Wayne59]
      #320894 - 23/10/18 07:18 AM

Wow she can shoot Buckstix!
2 loads & both virtually on top of one another, awesome.
May need a new front sight to bring it all down a little, or will you just aim off?


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buckstix
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Re: An Early Vintage Verney Carron .475 No.2 Nitro Express [Re: 93x64mm]
      #320896 - 23/10/18 08:03 AM

Quote:

I looked at that rifle several times but backed away because of the brass. I am happy to see you got it up and running. Would you mind if I copied your cooling device.



Hello Wayne59

Thanks for the reply.

Actually I found the Bertram brass on sale on 2 different sites.

Feel free to copy my cooling device. It really allows a lot more shooting in a given outing.

Quote:

Wow she can shoot Buckstix!
2 loads & both virtually on top of one another, awesome.
May need a new front sight to bring it all down a little, or will you just aim off?



Hello 93x64mm

Thanks for the reply.

I already installed a taller front site, and with a bigger bead. Now I aim "Dead-on" at 50yds and under.

--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."


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lancaster
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Re: An Early Vintage Verney Carron .475 No.2 Nitro Express [Re: buckstix]
      #320905 - 23/10/18 02:49 PM

cooling device is very cool!

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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buckstix
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Re: An Early Vintage Verney Carron .475 No.2 Nitro Express [Re: lancaster]
      #320929 - 24/10/18 08:28 PM

Hello lancaster,

Thanks for the reply.

This rig works particularly well when shooting 2 doubles at the range. Shoot one, cool the other, and so forth. I switch back-and-forth between the 2 with no time wasted waiting for the rifle(s) to cool.

--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."


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Daryl_S
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Re: An Early Vintage Verney Carron .475 No.2 Nitro Express [Re: buckstix]
      #320936 - 25/10/18 10:42 AM

That is a special cooling rig - what a wonderful 'build', Buckstix!

Well done on an exceptional shooter.

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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buckstix
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Re: An Early Vintage Verney Carron .475 No.2 Nitro Express [Re: Daryl_S]
      #320983 - 27/10/18 11:06 PM

Hello Daryl_S

Thanks for the reply.

Every so often one is surprised, as to how well these old doubles can really shoot.

--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."


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