Quote:

---

Quote:

---

One item no one has mentioned but I did find on several of my hunts to Zim..the 416 Rem. is used by a fair amount of PH's.. most camps I was at, one or more of the PH's had .416 REM ammo laying around somewhere. If you ran low or your ammo just didn't show up as it was being held hostage either in the airport in Paris or on some morons desk in customs...

---

There are some reasons why PHs often use the .416 Renm Mag.

1. They are left handed and the Rem 700 LH in .416 Rem Mag is the best LH rifle they can afford.

2. The Rem 700 is cheapish and PHs and appy PHs don't make a lot of money. So they get a reasonably effective cartridge in a cheap rifle.

Most would have a far better rifle and chambering if they could afford it.

---

---


Several in Zim actually had them for clients to use should their rifles not show up..or, as a back up for the PH's main carry should an issue arise with their main rifle..

Not all were Remington's..I do agree, however the ammo at the time was more readily available and cheaper than the Rigby variety..was another reason told to me..

Finally the PH's I visited with felt the .416 was adequate for anything you bump into while out in the bush..and, up to this point, my experience has been just that... I have other calibers as well including .458W and 470 Nitro..but, really find the .416 about ideal for everything I have used it for to this point..due to an issue on my first hunt to Zim I used it for everything I hunted from small plains game up to buffalo..

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

Post Extras:

Quote:

---

I always thought the .416 Rigby was significantly faster in velocity than the .416 Remington Magnum, by about 200 to 300 fps?

Don't own either of them.

And the .416 Chatfield-Taylor did around 2050 to 2100 fps with a 400 gr projectile. Very similar performance to the .450/400 NE ballistics.

Haven't read the article yet.

---

Post Extras:

Quote:

---

Just a side note here.

The Taylor loads I used were fully the equal of the original Rigby loads. Pressure is the same as a 30-06 or 300 Win mag. Quite a bit higher then the pressure of the 1920s Rigby cartridges, but that doesn't matter because almost all shells used today run the same pressure as the Taylor including the 30-06 7MM Mag, 338 mag, and 375 H&H.
Here is a link to look over the loads. Go to page 16.

https://www.riflemagazine.com/magazine/PDF/ri38partial.pdf

---

Post Extras:

Quote:

---

Re the Taylor.

This is a Woodleigh 416 cal 400grain Hydro fired from my Rigby. Muzzle velocity 2550fps it achieves this velocity with the same powder charge as the 410 Woodleigh Soft nose that gets 2450 fps. Entered chest of Buff at 50mts stopped just short of the skin in the rump, after going through the pelvic bone as well. My point is these seat fairly deep as do other monometals like Barnes. So if you want to use these and get some workable velocities out of them, I would suggest you will need an action capable of taking a 375H&H length case or a wide body case like the 416Ruger simply because you will loose a lot of the needed powder space in the 30-06 length action.

---

Post Extras:

Quote:

---

John
Your stats on the .416 Taylor are way off the mark.

---

No doubt. I was remarking off "arm chair expertise", and remember a discussion on A R where 'experts' were disparaging the .416 Chatfield-Taylor as too weak at approx 2,100 fps while in different threads the same 'experts' claimed the .450/400 was deadly(!) at similar velocities.

Different people using different loads, rifles, powders can get quite different results sometimes. And your expertise is hands on and real. Good to read of the much better velocities.

I came close to getting a .416 Chatfield-Taylor in the mid 1990's, when Brian Harre of NZ offered to build me a takedown rifle in .416, as well as .338 Win Mag and 7mm Rem Mag. Three barrels and forends. Using a Win M70 rifle as the platform. Never sourced a suitable controlled feed M70 and the project evaporated. Would have been a useful system. Instead many years later acquired my Mauser M03 with barrels in .404, 8x68S, 6.5x65, and .222. For the same sort of concept and world use.. So far my .222 has had the lions share of use, but planning the .404 and maybe the 8x68S will get a run this year in the Top End.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

Post Extras:

Quote:

---

John
Your stats on the .416 Taylor are way off the mark. My 1991 vintage Zastava actioned rifle has no trouble achieving 2400fps with the 410gn Woodleigh bullet. I have fired several hundred at my favourite load of 2360fps using AR2206H (H4895 in the US). I also get 2250fps with the 450gn bullet using AR2208 (Varget). My Winchester cases (.458W) have been fired at more than five times using these loads.... I neck size for three loadings & only use once fired cases when chasing big stuff.

I know the .416 Remington is a bit better when handloaded but it is a long way from the Rigby which easily achieves 2600fps with the 410gn bullet if you can hang on to it!!

My rifle is 8.5lbs without a scope & magnaported, I have no trouble catching up to fleeing pigs with this outfit... I don't feel real comfortable with the notion of chasing dangerous game with a 10lb bolt gun. I think Szihn is on the money with his comments!

Rule 303 am interested in your experiences with the Hydro, especially the extra length... I am about to load some for Water Buff, I see they are slightly longer than the 450gn softs I use & my commercial action feeds up to COL 2.400".

---

Post Extras:

Quote:

---

I know the .416 Remington is a bit better when handloaded but it is a long way from the Rigby which easily achieves 2600fps with the 410gn bullet if you can hang on to it!!

---

And this comment confirms my opinion that the .416 Rigby and .416 Remington are not velocity equivalent as the article tried to assume.

Of course any rifle pushing a 400 gr projectile at velocities in excess of 2100 fpos is effective and reaching 2400 fps or more, very effective.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

Post Extras:

Quote:

---

I agree that anything over 2100fps with a 400gn projectile is plenty for buff & wild cattle. I have found the Woodleigh softs more reliable penetrators when impact velocity is 2100-2200fps just as they advise.

---

For water buffalo, scrub bulls, banteng and cape buffalo, I have used my .450 NE double, my 9.3x74R double and my .375 H&H bolt action. 480 grs, 287 grs and 300 grs respectively. About twenty beasts between them all, not a lot by some standards, biut still enough to make a showing.

All of the above work. I know from personal experience with the last water buff, there can be times when even a .450 NE does make a bloody buff flinch, when he is coming for you ... Usually they work well enough, a small amount of times the circumstances mean the bigger the better. A reason I was told by one Territorian on NE, why he no longer uses his 6.5mm Mannlicher for just that reason ...

The .404, the .416s are in the middle of the above range. No reason why they won't work well, in the right bullet in the right places. Probably the best calibre choice for bovines using a bolt action, and not in very close bush or jungle.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

Post Extras:

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

I agree that anything over 2100fps with a 400gn projectile is plenty for buff & wild cattle. I have found the Woodleigh softs more reliable penetrators when impact velocity is 2100-2200fps just as they advise.

---

For water buffalo, scrub bulls, banteng and cape buffalo, I have used my .450 NE double, my 9.3x74R double and my .375 H&H bolt action. 480 grs, 287 grs and 300 grs respectively. About twenty beasts between them all, not a lot by some standards, biut still enough to make a showing.

All of the above work. I know from personal experience with the last water buff, there can be times when even a .450 NE does make a bloody buff flinch, when he is coming for you ... Usually they work well enough, a small amount of times the circumstances mean the bigger the better. A reason I was told by one Territorian on NE, why he no longer uses his 6.5mm Mannlicher for just that reason ...

The .404, the .416s are in the middle of the above range. No reason why they won't work well, in the right bullet in the right places. Probably the best calibre choice for bovines using a bolt action, and not in very close bush or jungle.

---

I too have often thought of a .404..if for nothing else, it has a cool factor as well as perhaps a bit handier rifle as stated earlier in this post..

Will not give me anything the .416's do, but, can never have too many guns...

Pulled this off of the web...

The.404 Jeffery is a large-caliber, rimless cartridge designed for large, dangerous game, such as the "Big Five" of Africa. Other names for this cartridge include.404 Jeffery Rimless, .404 Rimless Nitro Express, and 10.75× 73mm. It was created by W.J. Jeffery & Co of England based on their desire to duplicate performance of the.450/400 cartridge. There are two basically similar sets of dimensions for this case, depending on the manufacturer. The.404 Jeffery as originally loaded fired a.423" diameter bullet of either 300 gr with a muzzle velocity of 2,600 ft/s and muzzle energy of 4,500 foot-pounds force or 400 gr with a muzzle velocity of 2,125 ft/s and 4,020 foot-pounds force of energy. It is very effective on large game and is favored by many hunters of dangerous game. Performance and recoil are similar to other African dangerous game cartridges. The.404 Jeffery was popular with hunters and game wardens in Africa because it gave good performance with a manageable level of recoil. By way of comparison, the.416 Rigby and.416 Remington Magnum both fire a 400 grain.416 in bullet at 2,400 feet per second with a muzzle energy of approximately 5,000 foot-pounds force, which handily exceeds the ballistic performance of the.404 Jeffery but at the price of greater recoil and, in the case of the.416 Rigby, rifles that are significantly more expensive.

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

Post Extras:

Quote:

---

A lot easier shooting, too.

---

Post Extras:

Quote:

---

Pulled this off of the web...

The.404 Jeffery is a large-caliber, rimless cartridge designed for large, dangerous game, such as the "Big Five" of Africa. Other names for this cartridge include.404 Jeffery Rimless, .404 Rimless Nitro Express, and 10.75× 73mm. It was created by W.J. Jeffery & Co of England based on their desire to duplicate performance of the.450/400 cartridge. There are two basically similar sets of dimensions for this case, depending on the manufacturer. The.404 Jeffery as originally loaded fired a.423" diameter bullet of either 300 gr with a muzzle velocity of 2,600 ft/s and muzzle energy of 4,500 foot-pounds force or 400 gr with a muzzle velocity of 2,125 ft/s and 4,020 foot-pounds force of energy. It is very effective on large game and is favored by many hunters of dangerous game. Performance and recoil are similar to other African dangerous game cartridges. The.404 Jeffery was popular with hunters and game wardens in Africa because it gave good performance with a manageable level of recoil. By way of comparison, the.416 Rigby and.416 Remington Magnum both fire a 400 grain.416 in bullet at 2,400 feet per second with a muzzle energy of approximately 5,000 foot-pounds force, which handily exceeds the ballistic performance of the.404 Jeffery but at the price of greater recoil and, in the case of the.416 Rigby, rifles that are significantly more expensive.

---

This idiot writer uses .404 Jeffery ballistics from 1910 to .416 Rem ballistics from 2010, and thinks it is a valid comparison ....

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

Post Extras: