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NitroXAdministrator
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Convert a SMLE to 7.62x39
      #315976 - 03/05/18 02:25 AM


Some on here would know, I have been interested in acquiring an AIA SMLE styled rifle in 7.62x39. Been keeping an eye out for them, and the price is usually over $2000 now and snapped up quickly when the price approaches $2000 or below.

However I want one as a user, not some dust shelf collector of dust. I reckon they are hardly worth their original selling proce of around $800.

Saw the following rifle sold through usedguns. A SMLE converted to 7.62x39 including use of AK or SKK magazines.

I have a spare cutback old No.1 Mk III with a somewhat worn barrel. Have been thinking of disposing of it. But perhaps it could be rechambered, or rebarrelled and the magazine modified to take detachable AK or SKK type magazines. The use of SKK magazines is essential for me, I have some 10 round SKK magazines on hand. Plus oodles of 7.62x39 ammo.

Some questions:
1. How could an existing barrel be rechambered?
2. Barrel twist complementary or not?
3. Both nominally .311", any issues?
4. Any issues envisaged with modifying for SKK magazines?
5. Anything else comes to mind?

Would be aiming to add a low powered scope to the rifle as well.

The rifle has sold. I will see if usedguns can pass on an email top the seller for me. Would be good if they could share some knowledge.

Calibre/Item: 7.62x39
Make: Enfield
Model: SMLE
Action: Bolt repeater
Scope/Sights: Leupold Hog Plex 1-4x20
Condition: Good
Price: $1250
Advertised: 22/12/2017
Comment: Selling my 1916 Enfield re-chambered to 7.62x39 with timber cut down to suit, using AK style double stack magazines. Rif...
State: QLD
SOLD

The rifle sold above:


--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

Edited by NitroX (03/05/18 11:05 PM)

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lancaster
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Re: Convert a SMLE to 7.62x39 [Re: NitroX]
      #315982 - 03/05/18 04:34 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yM3cwvw8TPE



what I have heard about it that the barrel was set back exactly that the 7,62x39 headspace in the original 303 chamber. dont know how exactly this was done but I think its better to set the barrel 1 to 2 mm more back then necessary and reaming the 7,62x39 mm chamber in the common way.
that is the easy part

here is a vid with the original magazin for the 303 using 7,62

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dp3RFZx4ayk

allways possible to get another magazine into the action but maybe some work


I would build a sporting rifle in the style of a jungle carbine but without any military stuff on it and with hunting sights.

have a similar project with a carano and an ex 7,62x54R barrel for a dandy stutzen. magazine will be a CZ 527 magazine that fits into the carcano action.

--------------------
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yumastepside
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Re: Convert a SMLE to 7.62x39 [Re: NitroX]
      #315983 - 03/05/18 06:27 AM

The front section of a 303 chamber is basically the same as a 7.62x39, you don't have to re-chamber, just shorten and re-thread.
I've used old smelly barrels to convert Carcano's and early Mausers, 93's and 95's, to this calibre.
The mag conversion is a bit trickier, depending on the action used, but single row mags simplify things a bit.

Roger

PM if you need more info.

--------------------
If you live for a thousand years, you still only have one life, don't waste it.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Convert a SMLE to 7.62x39 [Re: yumastepside]
      #316019 - 03/05/18 08:12 PM

I think the SKK mags are single column aren't they? Been a while, since 1996 that I have used them!

But I thought the SKK mags and AK mags were the same??? So maybe double columned. I have to remember where I put them. Been twenty plus years since Howards infamy.

I have a fair amount of 7.62x39 ammo needing a rifle to be used from.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Convert a SMLE to 7.62x39 [Re: NitroX]
      #316037 - 03/05/18 11:06 PM

Added the photo of the rifle sold. The full wood would not be my choice to match with SKK magazines, but appropriate to a SMLE. My rifle is the usual cut back semi sporter look common to a lot of ex-mil SMLE's used after WW2.

The rifle sold in the advert:



--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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yumastepside
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Re: Convert a SMLE to 7.62x39 [Re: NitroX]
      #316038 - 03/05/18 11:07 PM

The SKK and AK mags are double row, the CZ and some of the Yugoslav AK's were single. I had the same problem....left over SKS ammo....so I bought a Baikal single shot in 7.62x39, nice but I like the Carcano conversions better.

The pics are not of mine but show what can be done.

Roger



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DarylS
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Re: Convert a SMLE to 7.62x39 [Re: yumastepside]
      #316042 - 04/05/18 01:14 AM

I din't think the factory shank on the SMLE was long enough to set the barrel back.
Interesting indeed.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Homer
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Re: Convert a SMLE to 7.62x39 [Re: DarylS]
      #316069 - 04/05/18 05:09 PM

G'Day Fella's,

NitroX, I see that Ruger now produce the Ruger American Ranch Rifle, in 7.62x39.
These use Ruger Mini-30 detachable magazines (5, 10 and 20 shot available).
FYI, have a look on page 54 of the current, April-June edition of Guns Australia magazine, for an article on this rifle.

Also, I have a Howa 1500 Mini action in 7.62x39, and I'm very happy with it.

Hope that helps

Avagreatweekendeh!
Homer

--------------------
"Beware the Lolly Pop of Mediocrity,
Lick it Once and You Will Suck Forever"

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Convert a SMLE to 7.62x39 [Re: Homer]
      #316072 - 04/05/18 05:29 PM

Quote:

G'Day Fella's,

NitroX, I see that Ruger now produce the Ruger American Ranch Rifle, in 7.62x39.
These use Ruger Mini-30 detachable magazines (5, 10 and 20 shot available).
FYI, have a look on page 54 of the current, April-June edition of Guns Australia magazine, for an article on this rifle.

Also, I have a Howa 1500 Mini action in 7.62x39, and I'm very happy with it.

Hope that helps

Avagreatweekendeh!
Homer



I have SKK mags already. Also want a rifle with the correct bore size.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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Homer
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Re: Convert a SMLE to 7.62x39 [Re: NitroX]
      #316075 - 04/05/18 06:17 PM

Roger that NitroX.

FYI, the Howa 1500 Mini, has a 0.300" Bore Dia, 0.310" Groove Dia and a 1 in 9 1/2" barrel twist.

D'oh!
Homer

--------------------
"Beware the Lolly Pop of Mediocrity,
Lick it Once and You Will Suck Forever"

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yumastepside
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Re: Convert a SMLE to 7.62x39 [Re: Homer]
      #316089 - 04/05/18 11:11 PM

.....but where's the fun in just buying one ??

Roger

--------------------
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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Convert a SMLE to 7.62x39 [Re: yumastepside]
      #316154 - 06/05/18 05:03 PM

Quote:

.....but where's the fun in just buying one ??

Roger



If I wanted something merely to shoot the ammo I would get a CZ or something.

Sometimes people have to realise there are other reasons. And I said in the first post what one requirement is.

I'd rather just get a SKK to use the ammo in, but that is denied us here.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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yumastepside
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Re: Convert a SMLE to 7.62x39 [Re: NitroX]
      #316186 - 07/05/18 02:09 PM

....these might be of interest....










Roger

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If you live for a thousand years, you still only have one life, don't waste it.

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twobobbwana
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Re: Convert a SMLE to 7.62x39 [Re: yumastepside]
      #316228 - 09/05/18 03:44 PM

My thoughts would be:

* setback barrel (if you've got enough shank/reinforce length);
* rechamber;
* Modify mag well on bottom metal to latch on existing SKK mags (don't modify each mag if you can get away with it);
* Extractor may need modification (don't have cartridge dimensions at hand)

I've seen it done to a Carcano and I believe (??) I've seen it done to a Smelly.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Convert a SMLE to 7.62x39 [Re: yumastepside]
      #316404 - 15/05/18 09:15 PM

Roger,

Thanks for the article. I note he says the No. 3 actions and earlier were difficult due to the thread, while the No.4 and later were easier. True or not? Anyone who knows.

I did not know of the 7.62x25 cartridge? What sorts of Eastern bloc firearms were these used in? SMGs?

I note also the article mentioned the mags for the auther fed fine for up to five cartridges. Again that would be a project killer for me if mags greater than five rounds could not be used.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

Edited by NitroX (15/05/18 09:46 PM)

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Convert a SMLE to 7.62x39 [Re: twobobbwana]
      #316405 - 15/05/18 09:27 PM

Quote:

My thoughts would be:

* setback barrel (if you've got enough shank/reinforce length);
* rechamber;
* Modify mag well on bottom metal to latch on existing SKK mags (don't modify each mag if you can get away with it);
* Extractor may need modification (don't have cartridge dimensions at hand)

I've seen it done to a Carcano and I believe (??) I've seen it done to a Smelly.



Yes.

Yes. If the SKK mags need modification the project would not be a goer for me. The fitting on the SMLE needs to accept SKK mags as is.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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Hoot
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Re: Convert a SMLE to 7.62x39 [Re: NitroX]
      #316450 - 16/05/18 11:53 PM

Quote:

I did not know of the 7.62x25 cartridge? What sorts of Eastern bloc firearms were these used in? SMGs?



Used in Czech CZ-52 and Yugo M-59(?) Tokarev pistols. Also used in sub-guns in the same countries. Nominally an 86gr FMJ bullet at ~1500fps out of a pistol. Unreliable reports state that the sub-gun ammo was hotter but there is general disagreement that ammo was segregated between pistols and sub's. Same case head as the 9x19 so think of it as a 9x25 necked down to 7.62.

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lancaster
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Re: Convert a SMLE to 7.62x39 [Re: Hoot]
      #316453 - 17/05/18 12:24 AM

nothing more than the russian version of the good old 7,63 Mauser and yes the 7,63 Mauser is the grandmother of the 9 mm Parabellum. because the mauser was to long for lugers early version is was shortened to the 7,65x22 parabellum than necked up to 9 mm.

the tokarev was the cartridge for the tokerev pistol and for the other russian ww 2 submachine guns







there is no evidence for a special hot loaded sub ammo
different countrys load it hotter than other and fired in chinese C 96 pistols in very bad shape this was making problems.

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.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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Re: Convert a SMLE to 7.62x39 [Re: lancaster]
      #316456 - 17/05/18 01:37 AM

Quote:

nothing more than the russian version of the good old 7,63 Mauser and yes the 7,63 Mauser is the grandmother of the 9 mm Parabellum. because the mauser was to long for lugers early version is was shortened to the 7,65x22 parabellum than necked up to 9 mm.

the tokarev was the cartridge for the tokerev pistol and for the other russian ww 2 submachine guns



there is no evidence for a special hot loaded sub ammo
different countrys load it hotter than other and fired in chinese C 96 pistols in very bad shape this was making problems.



I shot a 7.62x25 Tokerev pistol last year at the R&G club. A lady shooter had one, along with her .44 mag.
I found the recoil light, but sharp - you could tell those little bullets were singing out there quickly.
It was very accurate for me, shooting about 2" at 20 yards, quite quickly - 2-handed, standing, left barricade position.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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lancaster
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Re: Convert a SMLE to 7.62x39 [Re: DarylS]
      #316463 - 17/05/18 03:43 AM

police here were making tests with 7,62 tokarev pistols in the end of the 1990s and then they were able to penetrate any bulletproof vests made for pistol caliber

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FrankS
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Re: Convert a SMLE to 7.62x39 [Re: lancaster]
      #317886 - 08/07/18 03:34 PM

I've two single stack AK magazines from the Wasir (spelling) has the latch quite similar to standard AK magazines. There was a long thread with pictures on the castboolits.com forum regarding making a 7.62x39 conversion on a Italian Carcano. He did use one of the single stack magazines for this conversion. regards,Frank

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lancaster
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Re: Convert a SMLE to 7.62x39 [Re: FrankS]
      #317926 - 10/07/18 05:05 AM

not a SMLE but my own Carcano projekt, have it at home now because the bottom hole in the receive have to be milled for the magazin now.

just to show that modern welding makes everything possible

















if you know how a Carcano magazine looks you see the difference

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Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
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Re: Convert a SMLE to 7.62x39 [Re: lancaster]
      #317933 - 10/07/18 09:18 AM

Appears to be a CZ model 527 magazine.

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Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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lancaster
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Re: Convert a SMLE to 7.62x39 [Re: DarylS]
      #317945 - 10/07/18 01:52 PM

yes

--------------------
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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Convert a SMLE to 7.62x39 [Re: lancaster]
      #318044 - 14/07/18 02:05 PM

Saw an AIA go for $1300 last month. So reasonable sellers still exist. For a rifle which origiunally cost $700 to $800 and was hardly even worth that price, prices of $2000 to $2500 and even attempts at far higher only exist because of arsehole collectors. Almost all the rifles offered for sale, claim "only shot 40 or 50 shots" or similar.

If I had real choices I would want a:
AK47 or similar;
SKK;
AIA;
SMLE conversion. In that order. If the first two were legal here.

Must take SKK magazines and use the proper 7.62x39 cartridges, not .308 ammo.

Not interested in s[pending much money at all on the project. Have lots of ammo to use. Project has certain aspects to it I want fulfilled. Some of which I wouldn't record here.

Other types of rifles cpould of course be a possibility, but with every extra rifle I add to the gun safe, it is starting to make it difficult to buy another rifle, especially of the same ca;libre. So aiming to have my real desires fulfilled.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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