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Trailboss
.224 member


Reged: 12/11/13
Posts: 43
Loc: Alabama, USA
My new trio
      #315146 - 10/04/18 07:47 AM

Added a few new rollers to the family over the last month. All are from the 1870 era, and from Sweden.

Far left is a 1867 Carl Gustav chambered in 8x58Rd. Middle is a 1868 Remington, Far right is a 1870 Husquvarna, middle and far right
are both chambered 12,7x44R. Now I have something
to play with on the weekends.
Am currently working on loads, cast bullet sizing.






Some cut down 50 Alaskan for the brass.


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cordite
.333 member


Reged: 29/01/07
Posts: 309
Loc: NW Montana
Re: My new trio [Re: Trailboss]
      #315151 - 10/04/18 08:52 AM

Nice! I shoot my 8x58r a lot. My bore is large at .326. The Lee 8mm-Kar is perfect sized to .327.

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Trailboss
.224 member


Reged: 12/11/13
Posts: 43
Loc: Alabama, USA
Re: My new trio [Re: cordite]
      #315152 - 10/04/18 09:11 AM

That's what I'm shooting in it now, I also shoot the 00 buck for small game and pests,


Here is a image of what I'm working with on the 12,7x44r
450 gr on left, 500 grain on the right.



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lancaster
.450 member


Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 5088
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...
Re: My new trio [Re: Trailboss]
      #315156 - 10/04/18 02:07 PM

it looks like you using PPU 8x56R brass for the 8x58RD roller? better aneal the neck, shoulder



http://dutchman.rebooty.com/1889sporter.html

http://dutchman.rebooty.com/rb.html

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by lancaster (12/04/18 04:41 AM)


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Trailboss
.224 member


Reged: 12/11/13
Posts: 43
Loc: Alabama, USA
Re: My new trio [Re: lancaster]
      #315449 - 19/04/18 09:01 PM











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93x64mm
.400 member


Reged: 07/12/11
Posts: 1301
Loc: Nth QLD Australia
Re: My new trio [Re: Trailboss]
      #315473 - 20/04/18 07:38 AM

TB, when you get the chance to shoot these can you send through your loads please?
Wonderful old ladies aren't they!


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Daryl_S
.577 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 17991
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: My new trio [Re: 93x64mm]
      #315474 - 20/04/18 07:56 AM

Nice -

btw

What's the groove diameter in inches, on the 12.7x44R? Anyone know? I have read that it is the Euro version of the .50/70, which has a nominal ctg. length of 1.75", but early ones, like my 1867/68 Sharps runs 1.9".

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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cordite
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Reged: 29/01/07
Posts: 309
Loc: NW Montana
Re: My new trio [Re: Daryl_S]
      #315510 - 21/04/18 10:28 AM

Daryl, I had a 12.7x44r many years ago that had a groove diameter of .504. Don't know if that is typical or not.

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lancaster
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Re: My new trio [Re: cordite]
      #315519 - 21/04/18 07:33 PM

heard it can vary up to .512

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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Daryl_S
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Reged: 10/08/05
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Re: My new trio [Re: lancaster]
      #315525 - 22/04/18 01:48 AM

TKS guys.
The .50/70 was supposed to be .510" seems to me, however mine is .514".
.510" would be easier to match bullets to.

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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Trailboss
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Reged: 12/11/13
Posts: 43
Loc: Alabama, USA
Re: My new trio [Re: Daryl_S]
      #315596 - 24/04/18 06:27 AM

93x64mm will send you what I have tried and what worked and what didn't and maybe why.

Daryl_S, The groove dia on the Husqvarna 12.7 is .515. The groove on the Remington is .513, that is where the rub is. The original boolit used by the military was a swagged boolit of 365 grains with a dia of .497, Lots of folks have had no problem using the larger boolit in their chambers, but in mine it was not to be, I may even at some point set up a jig to mount the cast boolits in and drill out a cavity in the base like the original design and issued boolit were to help the boolit seal the barrel if I have an issue with the solid base, but I will first go softer with the alloy to see if I can get it to upset that way first if I have that issue.


I am using the 50 Alaskan brass by Starline for the case, it fits like a bad habit, I cut them down to 44 MM and then fire formed them twice using Unique, then with the two Lee mold I had ordered in the 515 diameter I carefully opened up the case mouths just enough to get the unsized as cast Lee boolit in........A big NO GO in the chamber, stopped quarter inch from entering all the way. SOOOOOOO, I ordered a Lee .510 sizer to squeeze these 515's down a little to see if that would work, Noooooooo, not this time either, so I like a dummy order the Lee .501 sizer and then promptly got the boolit stuck in the die, ha, ha, ha. Ok, flipped the die upside down, got out the drill and drilled most of the center of the lead 450 grain boolit out, the turned it back right side up and got an old c-clamp that I had removed the flat disc on the end of the screw shaft, taped it with cloth electrical friction tape and proceeded to slowly turn the screw down on the boolit and it just popped out. Ok, plan D, wait for the postal lady to bring me the Lyman Plains mold I ordered earlier in the week just in case this very issue came up. It is made for a muzzle loader, 395 grain, tail end is smaller than the front, something like .506 on the tail and .509 on the front. It arrived on Saturday's post, got right to it, cast them up, cut down another 17 cases, this time I sized all the cases through the Lyman 50-70 Govt dies instead of fire forming, the unsized boolit just entered the case mouth up to the second band from the base, perfect. Ok, got out the pyrodex, RS, pulled out the BP 36" drop tube I just made last week and proceeded to fill up all seventeen cased with a starting load of 50 grains of RS. I weighted the drop on my electronic scale and it came to 42.8 grains, so I loaded all of them up, compressed the powder just till it was taking up the strain, and them covered the powder with a card I punch out with my new arch puncher I got on Thursday of last week. Lubed the boolits with Wonder lube 1000 from TC and then pressed them in until they met firm resistance of the powder and card. Now came the test..........would they chamber? YES, slid in like flint!!!!!!!!

The next test will be to see how they shoot at 50 yards, and how the lube works or doesn't.

Will post as to the outcome of the shoot and any issue that arise thereof. Meanwile, here are a few images of the weekend labors of love.

















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93x64mm
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Reged: 07/12/11
Posts: 1301
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Re: My new trio [Re: Trailboss]
      #315597 - 24/04/18 07:21 AM

Great stuff TB!
Keep up the good work


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Daryl_S
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 17991
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: My new trio [Re: 93x64mm]
      #315612 - 25/04/18 03:55 AM

Yeah - good stuff.

However I ruined a barrel with Pyrodex RS back in the 70's. I would not use it today, if I were you.

According to Bill Knight who has done extensive tests on about all powders available, the perchlorates in Pyrodex, 17% of it's actual composition, is ruinous to barrels and brass alike.

By itself as in non-combusted, it is almost inert. Add heat and them moisture, it is poison to your barrel & much faster acting than standard chlorates used in corrosive primers of the past. Too - because of being 17% of your charge, it is many times worse than corrosive priming.

I would look into it, if I were you.

Graff's in the States will ship real BP directly to your door.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perchlorate

"To continue a bit on that. (Bill Knight)
Few shooters today realize that the GOEX now on the market is a vast improvement over what had been produced in the old Moosic, PA plant.
The fertilizer grade potassium nitrate that Moosic was forced to use contained some residual unreacted potassium chloride. The process used by Vicksburg to produce the potassium nitrate was only 98% efficient. There was always some residual potassium chloride in the powder. Of course then in the residue. Making the residue extremely corrosive under certain conditions. And chloride salts are noted for both rust films and pit corrosion. When you read this think of the corrosive military primers used in the .30 caliber cartridges. Primers made corrosive by a fraction of a grain of a perchlorate. With the black powder residue well above that fraction of a grain in chloride content. As far as I could see none of the black powders being made today use a potassium nitrate that contains any unreacted potassium chloride. So while the powder residue might cause light rust films in the bore you will not see the nasty destructive pit corrosion seen in the past where they had to use a fertilizer grade potassium nitrate."

Now, hopefully you will do the math - Pyrodex's composition is 17% perchlorates. That means 17 grains of every 100 grain of Pyrodex, is perchlorate, not a fraction of a grain, or even a full grain, not 8 1/2 grains per 50gr. powder charge.


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Trailboss
.224 member


Reged: 12/11/13
Posts: 43
Loc: Alabama, USA
Re: My new trio [Re: Daryl_S]
      #315622 - 25/04/18 08:26 AM

Daryl_S,
Thanks for the heads up. I will no doubt shoot these that are loaded, but will find another powder to use be it some goex or some other powder.


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Trailboss
.224 member


Reged: 12/11/13
Posts: 43
Loc: Alabama, USA
Re: My new trio [Re: Trailboss]
      #316666 - 22/05/18 07:13 AM

Well I guess sometimes the stars do line up. I was having a problem with .515 cast not chambering after being sized to .510. Well a kind member told me that there are a number of rollers that may not have had the chambers reamed from the original 42MM to the 44MM even though the breach block had been changed to center-fire. He suggested I take one case and trim it to 42MM and seat a cast bullet and see if it will chamber, I did, and it did. In both the Remington and the Husquvarna. So that was a very nice surprise which now gives me two moulds that can be used that I thought I was going to have to sell since the cast bullets would not fit in my chambers.



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