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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Rifles

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C_Davidson
.224 member


Reged: 31/12/11
Posts: 31
Loc: USA
Choosing 7mm bullet
      #314723 - 30/03/18 04:36 PM

I'm building a 7x57. I've chosen a McGowan barrel in Shilen #1 contour, a 22-inch barrel with 1:9 twist, and nominal weight of two pounds. I will have my gunsmith install the barrel on a highly customized Mexican Mauser Action. I intend to use the rifle for hunting anything a 7x57 loaded to European levels can handle. That in mind I've decided to work with 160 grain bullets. For accuracy's sake I want the chamber throat cut so the bullet just touches the rifling. Throating will depend a lot on the bullet used. So, my question is which 160 grain 7mm bullet might be the best all around hunting projectile? Ballistics are important, but so is long term availability and other practical matters. All shots on game will be taken at 300 yards or less. I absolutely detest the concept of long range "hunting."

The Mexican action may interest you. The stripper clip slot is welded shut as is the thumb cut in the left receiver wall. It looks as if they were never there. The trigger guard has a hinged floor plate latched with a lever. It will get a three position side swing safety and set trigger before it is done.


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Daryl_S
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 17905
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Choosing 7mm bullet [Re: C_Davidson]
      #314725 - 30/03/18 04:55 PM

Loaded to 2,600fps or so, the 160gr. TSX will kill about anything you want to hunt, from deer, goats, sheep, through elk and moose.

For longer ranges then about 200yards, you might be better advised to choose one of the bonded bullets, Hornady Interbond or Nosler Accubond, or the 160gr. Nosler Partition would also work for about anything, as-would the excellent 154gr. Hornady Interlock SP. I have not used that one myself, but have read very good results on it, even at much higher speeds.

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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Viking338
.333 member


Reged: 11/08/11
Posts: 368
Loc: Queensland Australia
Re: Choosing 7mm bullet [Re: Daryl_S]
      #314727 - 30/03/18 05:04 PM

I agree that all those that Daryl said will work but I can't go past the Woodleigh's. They just work for everything that I have used them on. I loved the MagTips then they stopped making them so I went to Woodleigh's in the 160's and have been very happy.

Steve


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Homer
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Reged: 07/04/09
Posts: 2203
Loc: Canberra, Australia
Re: Choosing 7mm bullet [Re: Viking338]
      #314741 - 30/03/18 06:03 PM

G'Day Fella's,

C Davidson, if you want a conventional type jacketed bullet, as Viking 338 suggested,have a look at www.woodleighbullets.com.au .
They make several different types, that may be what your looking for?

Happy Easter
Homer

--------------------
"Beware the Lolly Pop of Mediocrity,
Lick it Once and You Will Suck Forever"


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HeymSR20
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Reged: 23/11/11
Posts: 142
Loc: Scotland
Re: Choosing 7mm bullet [Re: Homer]
      #314750 - 30/03/18 10:00 PM

I have had excellent results with the 139gn Interlocks, and no reason why the 154gn should not be just as good if not better.

My Rigby shoots very well with the Norma 156 gn Oryx ammo. Pretty much the same bullet. I would nt bother with SST etc unless you like the bullet to gralloch as well as kill.


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Eck
.275 member


Reged: 10/09/06
Posts: 57
Loc: Burke, VA
Re: Choosing 7mm bullet [Re: HeymSR20]
      #314751 - 30/03/18 10:15 PM

If you a looking at Whitetail deer as your main, or largest quarry, I’m with HeymSR20 above. The Hornady 139 will do everything you need it to do inexpensively. It’s not a sexy “premium” bullet it’s just accurate and effective. The 154 is it’s big brother, with a little more mass. Enjoy the 7x57 for what it is, and don’t try to “magnumize” your loads. The advertised benefits of the premium bullets aren’t realized with the modest velocities of the 7x57.

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Maxim
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Reged: 04/06/16
Posts: 35
Loc: Michigan USA
Re: Choosing 7mm bullet [Re: Eck]
      #314759 - 31/03/18 12:09 AM

Sound like nice handy rifle.

In regards to having the throat cut to allow touching the rifling, perhaps you could consider if you should arrive at a destination without your ammo or having it lost. The off the shelf ammo you may have to settle on may not chamber. If you have settled on a specific weight of bullet, matching the twist may influence the potential accuracy more than the 'jump'. As a competitor in Ftr long range, our chambers are cut with a specific reamer intended for only the one bullet used. We still prefer to keep the bullet off the lands as a bullet 'jammed' may not come out with the case if or when the rifle needs to be unloaded with alive round. Usually a rod is needed to dislodge the bullet in the throat and powder goes everywhere you do not want it.


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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 9901
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Re: Choosing 7mm bullet [Re: Daryl_S]
      #314760 - 31/03/18 12:17 AM

Quote:

Loaded to 2,600fps or so, the 160gr. TSX will kill about anything you want to hunt, from deer, goats, sheep, through elk and moose.

For longer ranges then about 200yards, you might be better advised to choose one of the bonded bullets, Hornady Interbond or Nosler Accubond, or the 160gr. Nosler Partition would also work for about anything, as-would the excellent 154gr. Hornady Interlock SP. I have not used that one myself, but have read very good results on it, even at much higher speeds.




Agree with Daryl..for the velocities you are describing..the accubond or partition will kill anything that moves in this part of the world..

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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450_EXPRESS
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Reged: 04/01/09
Posts: 208
Loc: S.C.Montana
Re: Choosing 7mm bullet [Re: Ripp]
      #314767 - 31/03/18 12:43 AM

I would suggest a look at the Swift A frame. My kids have a .270 I fit for them to hunt with. Had a lot of blood shot meat with factory loads (hate that light fast stuff for that). Got some of the Swifts to try (handloads), Very good bullet, built like the Nosler Partion, (my favorite in my .338) but the front is bonded so you don't loose the weight, which in the smaller bores I think helps. Good luck with them so far, look into them if you'd like.


Edited by 450_EXPRESS (31/03/18 06:13 AM)


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tophet1
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Reged: 15/09/07
Posts: 1845
Loc: NSW, Australia
Re: Choosing 7mm bullet [Re: 450_EXPRESS]
      #314812 - 01/04/18 08:12 AM

I always get into trouble with other internet users when I post my experiences with a custom 7x57 I had built a few years ago. It had a factory Lothar Walther barrel with long euro throat. I could list the dozens of loads I tested and used on game over years of use, but found my experiences did not match some of the accepted 'wisdom' that exists on the internet. I used a lot of different projectile weights from 135 - 175 on game.

It is a perfect deer rifle up to and including Red deer. I would say it is a perfect red deer cartridge and that is its niche. I loaded a conventional 140 Sierra SP at a measured MV of 2,641fps in my rifle. You won't go wrong with this projjie, especially if shooting out to 300 meters. Learn its trajectory and don't rely on ballistic tables in a book.

If you use it on larger game, the toughest projectile I would use would be the 154 Hornady and keep ranges quite short. I didn't try the 139 Hornady Interlock but should have. I did have great results with the first rendition of 135 ACP's on camels, but they are no longer available.

It is not a high velocity power house. Premium construction projectiles like Woodleighs will often fail to expand and/or pencil through. If you load heavy projectiles like a 175 of any construction, my experience is they will usually tumble at ranges beyond 150 metres due to a lack of impact velocity.

Summary
1) The 7x57 in my experience is not a long range or large game rifle.
2) Like the 9.3x62 (which I've also owned and used in Africa and on feral camels in the outback) it made its reputation with conventional projectiles and works best with those designs.


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C_Davidson
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Reged: 31/12/11
Posts: 31
Loc: USA
Re: Choosing 7mm bullet [Re: tophet1]
      #314817 - 01/04/18 09:28 AM

Thanks for the comments. I hope there will be more.

Here's what I'm thinking. The light little 7x57 I'm putting together is a dream rifle I've had in mind going back to when I was just a kid reading a whole lot of Jack O'conner. His comments about mild shooting cartridges resonated with me. He influenced my decision to put together a 257 Roberts as my first center fire rifle. The 7mm to my way of thinking ought to be a step up from 257 and give me a rifle I can use on just about anything in North America except the large bears. Moose and Elk and black bears would be the largest things to hunt with the 7mm. In the off chance I can swing an African hunt it should work OK on most antelope. Also, I will be going to West Texas to hunt auodad in unfenced haunts, true fair chase hunting. I'd like to use the 7mm for that.

I've been thinking a 160 grain bullet might be best to use on the larger game. Bullets of this weight may be heavier than needed for whitetails but the 160 certainly isn't the wrong weight to use. If I can develop one load using 160 bullets I'd be set to handle anything. The slightly lighter 154 grain bullets are a valid option. The immediate goal is just one load to do it all and to optimize it to work specifically in the new rifle.

I'm not limiting myself to 257 and 7mm, I have many other rifles. I just think it is high time to build the rifle I dreamed about back in the 1960s and to get some enjoyment out of it while i still can


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prairie_ghost
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Reged: 19/07/08
Posts: 46
Loc: casper, wy
Re: Choosing 7mm bullet [Re: C_Davidson]
      #314822 - 01/04/18 11:04 AM

My experience hunting N American with one for over 40 years. Hornady 139 gr. interlock, 140 nosler partition, 160 nosler partition. They all shoot well, do the job nicely, no need for premium bullets. If I had but 1 to choose, 160 NP hands down.

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tophet1
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Reged: 15/09/07
Posts: 1845
Loc: NSW, Australia
Re: Choosing 7mm bullet [Re: C_Davidson]
      #314823 - 01/04/18 11:28 AM

Quote:

I just think it is high time to build the rifle I dreamed about back in the 1960s and to get some enjoyment out of it while i still can




... and isn't that what it's all about ? Enjoy.


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HeymSR20
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Reged: 23/11/11
Posts: 142
Loc: Scotland
Re: Choosing 7mm bullet [Re: tophet1]
      #314830 - 01/04/18 07:54 PM

With a modern 7x57 there is no reason why you should load it up a bit. The original 275Rigby was loaded with a 140gn to 2800 FPS. And a 7x57 should do everything the 7-08 does plus a bit.

I have had good results with my 7x65r and 173 gn h mantle bullets over 51gn of IMR4350. Complete through penetration on a100 kg (carcass weight) wild boar. Probably leaving muzzle at 2650 FPS. You can probably mimic this with a modern 7x57.


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PatagonHunter
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Reged: 20/01/06
Posts: 114
Loc: Bariloche, Patagonia Argentina
Re: Choosing 7mm bullet [Re: HeymSR20]
      #314833 - 01/04/18 09:49 PM

Hello C.Davidson,

Agree with HeymSR20!
I use the 7x57 since 1972. In all the modern rifles chambered for it, you can load it up significantly. As a starting point, you can use with total confidence the loads for the 7-08 Remington.
As Heym say, in my M98 Mauser 7x57 I reach 2650 f/s with the same H-Mantle 173 grs, and with any 175 grs bullet as well.
As an all around bullet weight, 154 to 160 grs is a very good choice. Changing the bullet type, not weight, as a function of the game.

Good luck!

PH


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Yochanan
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Reged: 26/01/03
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Re: Choosing 7mm bullet [Re: PatagonHunter]
      #314855 - 02/04/18 08:50 AM

I like Nosler partition. 140 or 160 will suffice depending on the game you hunt.

If you got an action that been rehardened and fresh brass its very possible to load it up a bit - apply common sense at load development.

--------------------
© "I have never been able to appreciate 'shock' as applied to killing big game. It seems to me that you cannot kill an elephant weighing six tons by ´shock´unless you advocate the use of a field gun." - W.D.M. Bell: Wanderings of an Elephant Hunter.


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Waidmannsheil
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Reged: 19/04/13
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Re: Choosing 7mm bullet [Re: Yochanan]
      #314870 - 02/04/18 10:23 AM

The 160 grain Woodleigh Protected Points and the Norma 156 grain Oryx would both work well. I have always found both those bullets work very well. The 160 grain Speer Grand Slam would be another good choice.

Waidmannsheil.

--------------------
There is nothing wrong with vegetarian food, so long as there is meat with it.


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C_Davidson
.224 member


Reged: 31/12/11
Posts: 31
Loc: USA
Re: Choosing 7mm bullet [Re: PatagonHunter]
      #314871 - 02/04/18 10:41 AM

Quote:

Hello C.Davidson,

Agree with HeymSR20!
I use the 7x57 since 1972. In all the modern rifles chambered for it, you can load it up significantly. As a starting point, you can use with total confidence the loads for the 7-08 Remington.
As Heym say, in my M98 Mauser 7x57 I reach 2650 f/s with the same H-Mantle 173 grs, and with any 175 grs bullet as well.
As an all around bullet weight, 154 to 160 grs is a very good choice. Changing the bullet type, not weight, as a function of the game.

Good luck!

PH




Are you saying 7-08 loads can be utilized without change in the 7x57? I'd think the volume of the 51mm case and 57mm case would be enough different that 7-08 loads in the longer case would actually be underpowered.

The velcity levels mentioned are where I want my loads to be. It was mentioned above that when loading one should not try to push the 7x57 to magnum levels. I agree with that and won't be trying to push the cartridge beyound normal European levels. If I want more I can use my lightweight 280 Remington. The 160 grain bullets have really good ballistic coefficients and sectional density, which has influenc3d my thinking about them.

Without looking back, there was something said above about keeping shots under 200 yards. I'd prefer to keep them shorter if I can, but definitely not over 300yards for wary open country game. To me hunting is all about actually hunting, and that means to me getting as close to my quarry as possible. I used to crawl through prairie dog towns stalking individual varmints and once, out of season, was able to sneak up on an oblivious whitetail buck close enough to touch it. You should have seen his response. I'm well over the hill now and can't crawl like I used too and have kinks in my sneak but I sure enjoy doing what I can. It's why I think the 7x57 will be a dandy match for my style.


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PatagonHunter
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Reged: 20/01/06
Posts: 114
Loc: Bariloche, Patagonia Argentina
Re: Choosing 7mm bullet [Re: C_Davidson]
      #314876 - 02/04/18 12:16 PM

Hello C. ,

I must add, to use the 7-08 Rem loads, MAXIMUM manual loads, as a normal loads in a 7x57. The volume difference is enough to do that.
I, also, don't want to push the working pressures in a 7x57. To load a 160 grs at 2700 f/s and a 175 grs at 2600 f/s (with the correct powders, of course) is to be at NORMA o RWS factory loads pressure levels.

Good luck!!

PH


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Daryl_S
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 17905
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Choosing 7mm bullet [Re: PatagonHunter]
      #314904 - 03/04/18 02:57 AM

Quote:

Hello C. ,

I must add, to use the 7-08 Rem loads, MAXIMUM manual loads, as a normal loads in a 7x57. The volume difference is enough to do that.
I, also, don't want to push the working pressures in a 7x57. To load a 160 grs at 2700 f/s and a 175 grs at 2600 f/s (with the correct powders, of course) is to be at NORMA o RWS factory loads pressure levels.

Good luck!!

PH




Modern guns do this quite well. I'd likely not load a model 96 that high, but my 6.5x55 did just over 2,900fps with 129's and quite nicely.

CIP working maximums for the 7x57, 8x57 and 9.3x62 are all 57,000psi, all of which are chambered in model 96 and 94 Mausers.
55,000psi for the 6.5x55.


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PatagonHunter
.300 member


Reged: 20/01/06
Posts: 114
Loc: Bariloche, Patagonia Argentina
Re: Choosing 7mm bullet [Re: Daryl_S]
      #314906 - 03/04/18 04:31 AM

Hi Daryl,

Agree.


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Eck
.275 member


Reged: 10/09/06
Posts: 57
Loc: Burke, VA
Re: Choosing 7mm bullet [Re: PatagonHunter]
      #314924 - 03/04/18 09:04 PM

Quote:

Hello C. ,

I must add, to use the 7-08 Rem loads, MAXIMUM manual loads, as a normal loads in a 7x57. The volume difference is enough to do that.
I, also, don't want to push the working pressures in a 7x57. To load a 160 grs at 2700 f/s and a 175 grs at 2600 f/s (with the correct powders, of course) is to be at NORMA o RWS factory loads pressure levels.

Good luck!!

PH




FWIW, when I chronographed loads out of my 7x57r drilling, the Norma ammunition was a full 200 FPS below published figures. Ammo still shot well, so no arguments there, but FYI.


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PatagonHunter
.300 member


Reged: 20/01/06
Posts: 114
Loc: Bariloche, Patagonia Argentina
Re: Choosing 7mm bullet [Re: Eck]
      #314944 - 04/04/18 11:30 AM

Hello Eck,

By the way, when I chronographed NORMA 7x57 factory loads with 150 grs
bullets in my 1935 Mauser with 60 cm barrel lenght, they were almost spot on at the announced velocity: 2750 f/s.
Perhaps another lot would be lower...


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